Christianity vs Baha'i

[Aupmanyav]

It is not what Baha'u'llah said that matters, it is what He did and what He wrote.

What did he do other than leading a bunch of illiterate Iranians, or write useless letters to the heads of countries which were thrown in waste paper baskets before they reached the addressees. Useless letters and rants are not sent to desks of heads of states. And what did he write except claiming that he is representing Allah and people should bow to him? Is there any thing sensible that he wrote?

 

[Trailblazer]

But Bab is not listed as one of the nine manifestations in Bahai relgion. That would falsify Bahaollah. There should be a 1000 year difference between two manifestations. Although, this again is a lie. Jesus came five hundred years after Buddha and Mohammad came 600 years after Jesus. Why do Bahais say different things at different times? If Bab and Bahaollah were contemporary, then what is the problem in Allah sending Joseph Smith and Mirza Ghaulam Ahmad too at the same time. All desired and it happened. Did Bahaollah report the message correctly? Did he understood the message.
This is the problem which occurs when Allah sends messages to ignorant and uneducated people. They don't understand it and garble it before passing it on. Allah never does a good selection of his messengers.

There is no official list of nine Manifestations of God and there is no rule about there being 1000 years between each Manifestation. There was only about 600 years between Jesus and Muhammad. the Bab and Baha'u'llah were the exception coming so close together but that was because this is a whole new religious cycle, the greatest in human history, so it was necessary for the Bab to come first, to prepare the way and announce the coming of Baha'u'llah, who was Him Whom God shall made manifest.

The Bab was a Manifestation of God (Messenger) in His own right, so He was the first resurrection. He referred to the revelation of Baha’u’llah as the Latter Resurrection, and granted the Babis a respite of 19 years to be able to recognize Baha’u’llah, because the Bab knew that Baha’u’llah would publicly declare His Mission in 1863.

“This is a letter from God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting, unto God, the Almighty, the Best Beloved, to affirm that the Bayán and such as bear allegiance to it are but a present from me unto Thee and to express my undoubting faith that there is no God but Thee, that the kingdoms of Creation and Revelation are Thine, that no one can attain anything save by Thy power and that He Whom Thou hast raised up is but Thy servant and Thy Testimony. I, indeed, beg to address Him Whom God shall make manifest, by Thy leave in these words: ‘Shouldst Thou dismiss the entire company of the followers of the Bayán in the Day of the Latter Resurrection by a mere sign of Thy finger even while still a suckling babe, Thou wouldst indeed be praised in Thy indication. And though no doubt is there about it, do Thou grant a respite of nineteen years as a token of Thy favour so that those who have embraced this Cause may be graciously rewarded by Thee. Thou art verily the Lord of grace abounding.” Selections From the Writings of the Báb, pp. 6-7

Bahá'u'lláh claimed that his mission as the Promised One of the Báb, was revealed to Him in 1853 while imprisoned in the Síyáh-Chál in Tehran, Iran.[4] After his release from the Síyáh-Chál, Bahá'u'lláh was banished from Persia, and he settled in Baghdad, which became the centre of Bábí activity. Although he did not openly declare this prophetic mandate, he increasingly became the leader of the Bábí community.[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ridvan

 

[Muffled]

You think I am making it up? Thou knoweth not me nor scripture

I believe I know scripture quite well but I only know you from RF and previous posts don't seem to support credibility.

 

[Trailblazer]

What did he do other than leading a bunch of illiterate Iranians, or write useless letters to the heads of countries which were thrown in waste paper baskets before they reached the addressees. Useless letters and rants are not sent to desks of heads of states. And what did he write except claiming that he is representing Allah and people should bow to him? Is there any thing sensible that he wrote?

Baha'u'llah laid the groundwork for a new world religion which is presently established and flourishing all over the world, a religion that will eventually result in all the other religions uniting into one common faith, as ordained by God Almighty.

“That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith. This can in no wise be achieved except through the power of a skilled, an all-powerful and inspired Physician. This, verily, is the truth, and all else naught but error.” The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 91

 

[Audie]

I believe I know scripture quite well but I only know you from RF and previous posts don't seem to support credibility.

Clearly you don't know it very well, and
clearly too you are unwilling to check for
yourself when insulting me is so much
satisfying.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

But Bab is not listed as one of the nine manifestations in Bahai relgion. That would falsify Bahaollah. There should be a 1000 year difference between two manifestations. Although, this again is a lie. Jesus came five hundred years after Buddha and Mohammad came 600 years after Jesus. Why do Bahais say different things at different times? If Bab and Bahaollah were contemporary, then what is the problem in Allah sending Joseph Smith and Mirza Ghaulam Ahmad too at the same time. All desired and it happened. Did Bahaollah report the message correctly? Did he understood the message.
This is the problem which occurs when Allah sends messages to ignorant and uneducated people. They don't understand it and garble it before passing it on. Allah never does a good selection of his messengers.

Yes, the Bab claimed to be a Manifestation of God and is listed as one of the Manifestations. I quote Shoghi Effendi:


"Dearly-beloved friends! That the Báb, the inaugurator of the Bábí Dispensation, is fully entitled to rank as one of the self-sufficient Manifestations of God, that He has been invested with sovereign power and authority, and exercises all the rights and prerogatives of independent Prophethood, is yet another fundamental verity which the Message of Bahá’u’lláh insistently proclaims and which its followers must uncompromisingly uphold."

The Báb in the words of Shoghi Effendi


There is no such a thing that Manifestations of God appear every 1000 years.
Bahaullah wrote every about a 1000 years, sometimes more, sometimes less, the Religion of God needs to be renewed.

The Religion of God in our age was renewed 1000 years after Islam. Its renewal required two Manifestations to appear following each other.

 

[Muffled]

Clearly you don't know it very well, and
clearly too you are unwilling to check for
yourself when insulting me is so much
satisfying.

I believe people say things are clear when they can't prove them

I believe it was not an insult. It was simply a judgment. I debate a lot of people. Some provide evidence some don't some reason well and others don't. I never consider it an insult when someone says I don't know what the experts say because it is a rational judgment on their part.

I believe I need something to check. I always do to see if a person is interpreting correctly. It is possible for me to miss something because I don't have the whole Bible memorized. So if you wish to say I don't know the Bible because I don't have it totally memorized then you are correct. So maybe I can just say I l know a great deal about the Bible.

 

[Audie]

I believe people say things are clear when they can't prove them

I believe it was not an insult. It was simply a judgment. I debate a lot of people. Some provide evidence some don't some reason well and others don't. I never consider it an insult when someone says I don't know what the experts say because it is a rational judgment on their part.

I believe I need something to check. I always do to see if a person is interpreting correctly. It is possible for me to miss something because I don't have the whole Bible memorized. So if you wish to say I don't know the Bible because I don't have it totally memorized then you are correct. So maybe I can just say I l know a great deal about the Bible.

Post my orignal ststement that you responded to,
if you need me to show you i didnt make it up.
Was it the one about "god" deceiving?
You dont know enough to have ever seen examples?

You need something to check?

Google "god deceive in bible". You will find many citations
before you can type the whole phrase

 

[InvestigateTruth]

If Daniel 7:14,15 refers to Baha'u'llah, it's odd that he isn't mentioned in Philippians 2:9,10:

'Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus [not Baha'u'llah] every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.'

It's mighty strange that Baha'u'llah should suddenly claim the position of Christ when scripture clearly designates Jesus as the one and only Christ.

Of course, you may believe, as some do, that Jesus was totally misguided when he made the claim that the Hebrew scriptures all pointed to him as the Messiah.

Luke 24:25-27. 'Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scripture the things concerning himself.'

In Bahai view, Christ is the Spirit of God. At one point, that Spirit was manifested from Jesus, and in our time, it is Manifested from Bahaullah. We don't give much importance to the physical bodily of Jesus or Bahaullah. We give the importance to God, whose will was manifested from Jesus, and Now from Bahaullah.

It is recorded in the Gospel, Jesus said: without the Father, I cannot do anything. The Father who is in Me is doing all the work.

 

[Redemptionsong]

In Bahai view, Christ is the Spirit of God. At one point, that Spirit was manifested from Jesus, and in our time, it is Manifested from Bahaullah. We don't give much importance to the physical bodily of Jesus or Bahaullah. We give the importance to God, whose will was manifested from Jesus, and Now from Bahaullah.

It is recorded in the Gospel, Jesus said: without the Father, I cannot do anything. The Father who is in Me is doing all the work.

God chose Jesus to be the Christ. Jesus was a human being. To say that the physical body of Jesus is unimportant is to deny the part played by the human being in the atonement. The Spirit of God was present in Jesus until the crucifixion, but when sin was borne in the body of Jesus, the Spirit of God deserted Jesus; 'My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?'

Jesus Christ was a mediator between God and men: fully God and fully man. If you diminish the human side of his being, you take away his human accomplishment. Jesus Christ is then no longer a mediator.

If you offer yourself to be tortured and killed for others, I think it unlikely that you'll exclaim, The Father who is in me is doing all the work!

 

[InvestigateTruth]

God chose Jesus to be the Christ. Jesus was a human being. To say that the physical body of Jesus is unimportant is to deny the part played by the human being in the atonement. The Spirit of God was present in Jesus until the crucifixion, but when sin was borne in the body of Jesus, the Spirit of God deserted Jesus; 'My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?'

Jesus Christ was a mediator between God and men: fully God and fully man. If you diminish the human side of his being, you take away his human accomplishment. Jesus Christ is then no longer a mediator.

If you offer yourself to be tortured and killed for others, I think it unlikely that you'll exclaim, The Father who is in me is doing all the work!

The physical body of Jesus was important while He was on earth giving the message of God. When His work was done, then the His spirit left this world, and His physical body died just as any other human, and has no more function anymore.

 

[Redemptionsong]

The physical body of Jesus was important while He was on earth giving the message of God. When His work was done, then the His spirit left this world, and His physical body died just as any other human, and has no more function anymore.

Yes, l agree that the body of Jesus died. But the resurrection of Jesus' body makes it a spiritual body with a soul. The soul of Jesus descended into the grave at death. It was resurrected with his new spiritual body. That is why there is always a distinction made between the Father and the Son (or Lamb) even after ascension to heaven.

Do you not believe that Jesus had a soul?

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you not believe that Jesus had a soul?

Yes, we believe that Jesus had a soul because He was human. Baha'is believe that all humans have a rational soul (human spirit) as well as a physical body.

“The human spirit which distinguishes man from the animal is the rational soul, and these two names—the human spirit and the rational soul—designate one thing. This spirit, which in the terminology of the philosophers is the rational soul, embraces all beings, and as far as human ability permits discovers the realities of things and becomes cognizant of their peculiarities and effects, and of the qualities and properties of beings. But the human spirit, unless assisted by the spirit of faith, does not become acquainted with the divine secrets and the heavenly realities. It is like a mirror which, although clear, polished and brilliant, is still in need of light. Until a ray of the sun reflects upon it, it cannot discover the heavenly secrets.

But the mind is the power of the human spirit. Spirit is the lamp; mind is the light which shines from the lamp. Spirit is the tree, and the mind is the fruit. Mind is the perfection of the spirit and is its essential quality, as the sun’s rays are the essential necessity of the sun.” Some Answered Questions, pp. 208-209

What distinguishes the Holy Manifestations of God from an ordinary humans is that they have a third station, the divine appearance and the heavenly splendor.

“Know that the Holy Manifestations, though They have the degrees of endless perfections, yet, speaking generally, have only three stations. The first station is the physical; the second station is the human, which is that of the rational soul; the third is that of the divine appearance and the heavenly splendor.

The physical station is phenomenal; it is composed of elements, and necessarily everything that is composed is subject to decomposition. It is not possible that a composition should not be disintegrated.

The second is the station of the rational soul, which is the human reality. This also is phenomenal, and the Holy Manifestations share it with all mankind.

Know that, although the human soul has existed on the earth for prolonged times and ages, yet it is phenomenal. As it is a divine sign, when once it has come into existence, it is eternal. The spirit of man has a beginning, but it has no end; it continues eternally. In the same way the species existing on this earth are phenomenal, for it is established that there was a time when these species did not exist on the surface of the earth. Moreover, the earth has not always existed, but the world of existence has always been, for the universe is not limited to this terrestrial globe. The meaning of this is that, although human souls are phenomenal, they are nevertheless immortal, everlasting and perpetual; for the world of things is the world of imperfection in comparison with that of man, and the world of man is the world of perfection in comparison with that of things. When imperfections reach the station of perfection, they become eternal. 1 This is an example of which you must comprehend the meaning.

The third station is that of the divine appearance and heavenly splendor: it is the Word of God, the Eternal Bounty, the Holy Spirit. It has neither beginning nor end, for these things are related to the world of contingencies and not to the divine world. For God the end is the same thing as the beginning. So the reckoning of days, weeks, months and years, of yesterday and today, is connected with the terrestrial globe; but in the sun there is no such thing—there is neither yesterday, today nor tomorrow, neither months nor years: all are equal. In the same way the Word of God is purified from all these conditions and is exempt from the boundaries, the laws and the limits of the world of contingency. Therefore, the reality of prophethood, which is the Word of God and the perfect state of manifestation, did not have any beginning and will not have any end; its rising is different from all others and is like that of the sun. For example, its dawning in the sign of Christ was with the utmost splendor and radiance, and this is eternal and everlasting. See how many conquering kings there have been, how many statesmen and princes, powerful organizers, all of whom have disappeared, whereas the breezes of Christ are still blowing; His light is still shining; His melody is still resounding; His standard is still waving; His armies are still fighting; His heavenly voice is still sweetly melodious; His clouds are still showering gems; His lightning is still flashing; His reflection is still clear and brilliant; His splendor is still radiating and luminous; and it is the same with those souls who are under His protection and are shining with His light.

Then it is evident that the Manifestations possess three conditions: the physical condition, the condition of the rational soul, and the condition of the divine appearance and heavenly splendor. The physical condition will certainly become decomposed, but the condition of the rational soul, though it has a beginning, has no end: nay, it is endowed with everlasting life. But the Holy Reality, of which Christ says, “The Father is in the Son,” 2 has neither beginning nor end. When beginning is spoken of, it signifies the state of manifesting; and, symbolically, the condition of silence is compared to sleep. For example, a man is sleeping—when he begins to speak, he is awake—but it is always the same individual, whether he be asleep or awake; no difference has occurred in his station, his elevation, his glory, his reality or his nature. The state of silence is compared to sleep, and that of manifestation to wakefulness. A man sleeping or waking is the same man; sleep is one state, and wakefulness is another. The time of silence is compared to sleep, and manifestation and guidance are compared to wakefulness.

In the Gospel it is said, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God.” 3 Then it is evident and clear that Christ did not reach to the station of Messiahship and its perfections at the time of baptism, when the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in the likeness of a dove. Nay, the Word of God from all eternity has always been, and will be, in the exaltation of sanctification.”
Some Answered Questions, pp. 151-153

38: The Three Stations of the Divine Manifestations

 

[Redemptionsong]

Yes, we believe that Jesus had a soul because He was human. Baha'is believe that all humans have a rational soul (human spirit) as well as a physical body.

“The human spirit which distinguishes man from the animal is the rational soul, and these two names—the human spirit and the rational soul—designate one thing. This spirit, which in the terminology of the philosophers is the rational soul, embraces all beings, and as far as human ability permits discovers the realities of things and becomes cognizant of their peculiarities and effects, and of the qualities and properties of beings. But the human spirit, unless assisted by the spirit of faith, does not become acquainted with the divine secrets and the heavenly realities. It is like a mirror which, although clear, polished and brilliant, is still in need of light. Until a ray of the sun reflects upon it, it cannot discover the heavenly secrets.

But the mind is the power of the human spirit. Spirit is the lamp; mind is the light which shines from the lamp. Spirit is the tree, and the mind is the fruit. Mind is the perfection of the spirit and is its essential quality, as the sun’s rays are the essential necessity of the sun.” Some Answered Questions, pp. 208-209

What distinguishes the Holy Manifestations of God from an ordinary humans is that they have a third station, the divine appearance and the heavenly splendor.

“Know that the Holy Manifestations, though They have the degrees of endless perfections, yet, speaking generally, have only three stations. The first station is the physical; the second station is the human, which is that of the rational soul; the third is that of the divine appearance and the heavenly splendor.

The physical station is phenomenal; it is composed of elements, and necessarily everything that is composed is subject to decomposition. It is not possible that a composition should not be disintegrated.

The second is the station of the rational soul, which is the human reality. This also is phenomenal, and the Holy Manifestations share it with all mankind.

Know that, although the human soul has existed on the earth for prolonged times and ages, yet it is phenomenal. As it is a divine sign, when once it has come into existence, it is eternal. The spirit of man has a beginning, but it has no end; it continues eternally. In the same way the species existing on this earth are phenomenal, for it is established that there was a time when these species did not exist on the surface of the earth. Moreover, the earth has not always existed, but the world of existence has always been, for the universe is not limited to this terrestrial globe. The meaning of this is that, although human souls are phenomenal, they are nevertheless immortal, everlasting and perpetual; for the world of things is the world of imperfection in comparison with that of man, and the world of man is the world of perfection in comparison with that of things. When imperfections reach the station of perfection, they become eternal. 1 This is an example of which you must comprehend the meaning.

The third station is that of the divine appearance and heavenly splendor: it is the Word of God, the Eternal Bounty, the Holy Spirit. It has neither beginning nor end, for these things are related to the world of contingencies and not to the divine world. For God the end is the same thing as the beginning. So the reckoning of days, weeks, months and years, of yesterday and today, is connected with the terrestrial globe; but in the sun there is no such thing—there is neither yesterday, today nor tomorrow, neither months nor years: all are equal. In the same way the Word of God is purified from all these conditions and is exempt from the boundaries, the laws and the limits of the world of contingency. Therefore, the reality of prophethood, which is the Word of God and the perfect state of manifestation, did not have any beginning and will not have any end; its rising is different from all others and is like that of the sun. For example, its dawning in the sign of Christ was with the utmost splendor and radiance, and this is eternal and everlasting. See how many conquering kings there have been, how many statesmen and princes, powerful organizers, all of whom have disappeared, whereas the breezes of Christ are still blowing; His light is still shining; His melody is still resounding; His standard is still waving; His armies are still fighting; His heavenly voice is still sweetly melodious; His clouds are still showering gems; His lightning is still flashing; His reflection is still clear and brilliant; His splendor is still radiating and luminous; and it is the same with those souls who are under His protection and are shining with His light.

Then it is evident that the Manifestations possess three conditions: the physical condition, the condition of the rational soul, and the condition of the divine appearance and heavenly splendor. The physical condition will certainly become decomposed, but the condition of the rational soul, though it has a beginning, has no end: nay, it is endowed with everlasting life. But the Holy Reality, of which Christ says, “The Father is in the Son,” 2 has neither beginning nor end. When beginning is spoken of, it signifies the state of manifesting; and, symbolically, the condition of silence is compared to sleep. For example, a man is sleeping—when he begins to speak, he is awake—but it is always the same individual, whether he be asleep or awake; no difference has occurred in his station, his elevation, his glory, his reality or his nature. The state of silence is compared to sleep, and that of manifestation to wakefulness. A man sleeping or waking is the same man; sleep is one state, and wakefulness is another. The time of silence is compared to sleep, and manifestation and guidance are compared to wakefulness.

In the Gospel it is said, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God.” 3 Then it is evident and clear that Christ did not reach to the station of Messiahship and its perfections at the time of baptism, when the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in the likeness of a dove. Nay, the Word of God from all eternity has always been, and will be, in the exaltation of sanctification.”
Some Answered Questions, pp. 151-153

38: The Three Stations of the Divine Manifestations

So, let me understand this clearly. You believe that Jesus had a soul, and that his soul is eternal. So where is the rational soul of Jesus now?

Happy Birthday, by the way.

 

[Trailblazer]

So, let me understand this clearly. You believe that Jesus had a soul, and that his soul is eternal. So where is the rational soul of Jesus now?

The soul of Jesus is in the spiritual world (heaven) at the Right Hand of God....

In the following passage Baha'u'llah described what happened during the trial of Jesus and how Jesus finally took His flight to the fourth heaven after the crucifixion.

“Similarly, call thou to mind the day when the Jews, who had surrounded Jesus, Son of Mary, were pressing Him to confess His claim of being the Messiah and Prophet of God, so that they might declare Him an infidel and sentence Him to death. Then they led Him away, He Who was the Daystar of the heaven of divine Revelation, unto Pilate and Caiaphas, who was the leading divine of that age. The chief priests were all assembled in the palace, also a multitude of people who had gathered to witness His sufferings, to deride and injure Him. Though they repeatedly questioned Him, hoping that He would confess His claim, yet Jesus held His peace and spake not. Finally, an accursed of God arose and, approaching Jesus, adjured Him saying: “Didst thou not claim to be the Divine Messiah? Didst thou not say, ‘I am the King of Kings, My word is the Word of God, and I am the breaker of the Sabbath day’?” Thereupon Jesus lifted up His head and said: “Beholdest thou not the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of power and might?” These were His words, and yet consider how to outward seeming He was devoid of all power except that inner power which was of God and which had encompassed all that is in heaven and on earth. How can I relate all that befell Him after He spoke these words? How shall I describe their heinous behavior towards Him? They at last heaped on His blessed Person such woes that He took His flight unto the fourth Heaven.”
The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 132-133

Happy Birthday, by the way.

Thanks, but I never celebrate my birthday, it is just another day. Unfortunately my life situation continues to be rather dire, year after year, and there is no way to change it, although with God anything is possible. It is a good thing I do not depend upon my life in this world to be happy. As long as I can be of some service to others I am happy, despite my personal life situation.

John 12:24-26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

Matthew 16:24-26 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

 

[Audie]

The soul of Jesus is in the spiritual world (heaven) at the Right Hand of God....

The following passage Baha'u'llah describes what happened during the trial of Jesus and how He took His flight to the fourth heaven.

“Similarly, call thou to mind the day when the Jews, who had surrounded Jesus, Son of Mary, were pressing Him to confess His claim of being the Messiah and Prophet of God, so that they might declare Him an infidel and sentence Him to death. Then they led Him away, He Who was the Daystar of the heaven of divine Revelation, unto Pilate and Caiaphas, who was the leading divine of that age. The chief priests were all assembled in the palace, also a multitude of people who had gathered to witness His sufferings, to deride and injure Him. Though they repeatedly questioned Him, hoping that He would confess His claim, yet Jesus held His peace and spake not. Finally, an accursed of God arose and, approaching Jesus, adjured Him saying: “Didst thou not claim to be the Divine Messiah? Didst thou not say, ‘I am the King of Kings, My word is the Word of God, and I am the breaker of the Sabbath day’?” Thereupon Jesus lifted up His head and said: “Beholdest thou not the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of power and might?” These were His words, and yet consider how to outward seeming He was devoid of all power except that inner power which was of God and which had encompassed all that is in heaven and on earth. How can I relate all that befell Him after He spoke these words? How shall I describe their heinous behavior towards Him? They at last heaped on His blessed Person such woes that He took His flight unto the fourth Heaven.”
The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 132-133

Thanks, but I never celebrate my birthday, it is just another day. Unfortunately my life situation continues to be rather dire, year after year, and there is no expectation that it will change, although with God anything is possible. It is a good thing I do not depend upon my life in this world to be happy. As long as I can be of some service to others I am happy, despite my personal situation.

John 12:24-26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

Matthew 16:24-26 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

God has hands?

 

[Trailblazer]

God has hands?

No, of course not. That is just a metaphor, meaning as close to God as is possible.

 

[Audie]

No, of course not. That is just a metaphor, meaning as close to God as is possible.

And at the time it was written?

Seems like holy works ought to just say what hey mean, and, imo, when written, they did.

 

[Trailblazer]

And at the time it was written?

The Kitāb-i Īqān ('Book of Certitude') is one of Baha'u'llah's major works written in defence of the religious claims of Sayyid 'Ali Muhammad Shirazi, the Bab. It dates from the early 1860s while Baha'u'llah was exiled in Baghdad, but before he openly announced his claim to be the promised one of all religions.

Kitāb-i Īqān ('Book of Certitude'), a major Baha'i work by Baha ...

Seems like holy works ought to just say what hey mean, and, imo, when written, they did.

It does say what it means, in metaphorical language.

 

[Redemptionsong]

The soul of Jesus is in the spiritual world (heaven) at the Right Hand of God....

In the following passage Baha'u'llah described what happened during the trial of Jesus and how Jesus finally took His flight to the fourth heaven after the crucifixion.

“Similarly, call thou to mind the day when the Jews, who had surrounded Jesus, Son of Mary, were pressing Him to confess His claim of being the Messiah and Prophet of God, so that they might declare Him an infidel and sentence Him to death. Then they led Him away, He Who was the Daystar of the heaven of divine Revelation, unto Pilate and Caiaphas, who was the leading divine of that age. The chief priests were all assembled in the palace, also a multitude of people who had gathered to witness His sufferings, to deride and injure Him. Though they repeatedly questioned Him, hoping that He would confess His claim, yet Jesus held His peace and spake not. Finally, an accursed of God arose and, approaching Jesus, adjured Him saying: “Didst thou not claim to be the Divine Messiah? Didst thou not say, ‘I am the King of Kings, My word is the Word of God, and I am the breaker of the Sabbath day’?” Thereupon Jesus lifted up His head and said: “Beholdest thou not the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of power and might?” These were His words, and yet consider how to outward seeming He was devoid of all power except that inner power which was of God and which had encompassed all that is in heaven and on earth. How can I relate all that befell Him after He spoke these words? How shall I describe their heinous behavior towards Him? They at last heaped on His blessed Person such woes that He took His flight unto the fourth Heaven.”
The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 132-133

Thanks, but I never celebrate my birthday, it is just another day. Unfortunately my life situation continues to be rather dire, year after year, and there is no way to change it, although with God anything is possible. It is a good thing I do not depend upon my life in this world to be happy. As long as I can be of some service to others I am happy, despite my personal life situation.

John 12:24-26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

Matthew 16:24-26 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

So, if you believe that Jesus was resurrected, and that he resides at the right hand of God the Father, why do you need another Messiah?

This passage from Hebrews 9:24-28 tells us, I believe, that there is only one Messiah.
'For Christ has not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.'