Gravity and the Expanding Universe

[ChristineM]

BTW, in no way is science infallible. To think so is to make it a god and I don't think that is palatable to even the most ardent Bible hater.

At least science has checks and balances, it is able to correct its errors when discovered, which is completely unlike religion that cannot correct itself, yet you have no problems with the god of your religion. Have you ever thought about that?

 

[ppp]

The Egyptians invented math. They also said, "The supernatural/spiritual/heavenly/godly/whatever exists and we know things about it."

So, why take mathematics serious? Talk about throwing out the baby with the bath water!

Thanks for dodging the question. But while you won't (or cannot) answer mine, I can answer yours.
The reason that we take math seriously is not because some ancient persons said it. We take math seriously because it is continually demonstrable .in the here and the now. There is no such demonstration of supernatural/spiritual/heavenly/godly/whatever.

Your baby with the bath water thing is merely an attempt to take the demonstrable value of mathematics and falsely attribute it to your supernatural beliefs.

BTW, the Egyptians did not invent mathematics.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Please mention again. Right, please?

Regards

In your own words what do you think that atheism is?

 

[Subduction Zone]

There are plenty of books out there that show the scriptures do not contradict science. Or you could just read the scriptures themselves to see for yourself. Of course, like all science, you'd have to approach it without preconceived biases.

No, there really are not. But it is nice to know that you reject the myths of Genesis. Science demonstrated those to be wrong a long time ago.

BTW, in no way is science infallible. To think so is to make it a god and I don't think that is palatable to even the most ardent Bible hater.

Strawman much? Who has claimed that science is infallible?

 

[rrobs]

At least science has checks and balances, it is able to correct its errors when discovered, which is completely unlike religion that cannot correct itself, yet you have no problems with the god of your religion. Have you ever thought about that?

It's a good thing science has checks and balances, given that about half of what science once thought has changed. I guess the question becomes, have we finally arrived at the pinnacle of science, or will we discover yet again that half of what we think we know today is wrong? And yet you have no problem with that.

 

[ChristineM]

It's a good thing science has checks and balances, given that about half of what science once thought has changed. I guess the question becomes, have we finally arrived at the pinnacle of science, or will we discover yet again that half of what we think we know today is wrong? And yet you have no problem with that.

Yes new evidence and knowledge allow for change

Science will likely never stop learning

Correct, i have no problem with learning, i guess you have

 

[rrobs]

Thanks for dodging the question. But while you won't (or cannot) answer mine, I can answer yours.
The reason that we take math seriously is not because some ancient persons said it. We take math seriously because it is continually demonstrable .in the here and the now. There is no such demonstration of supernatural/spiritual/heavenly/godly/whatever.

Your baby with the bath water thing is merely an attempt to take the demonstrable value of mathematics and falsely attribute it to your supernatural beliefs.

BTW, the Egyptians did not invent mathematics.

I answered your question with a question.Specifically, I asked why take anything ancient man says about math or science should be taken seriously, given their penchant for spiritual matters.


Technically, you are right about the Egyptians. There is no one people who invented math, but all who were involved were also very religious. That's just how ancient man was. They attributed everything to the gods. I'll bet they also thought the earth was flat. How can you trust such ignorant people on anything? They may just be tricking you into accepting falsehoods. They were awfully clever like that, you know.

You brought up math being demonstrable and it certainly is.

1Cor 2:4,

And my speech and my preaching [was] not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:​

Looks like math does not have the corner on demonstrability. You're not having seen spiritual power demonstrated in no way negates the truth.

You don't like the science in the Bible (just your opinion, I might add), so you throw out everlasting life in paradise. That's what I meant by throwing out the baby with the bath water. It is a good analogy.

BTW, I used to think just like you as did virtually all 2.5 billion Christians. But I and the other Christians got smart one day. Perhaps you will one day join the family.

 

[rrobs]

Yes new evidence and knowledge allow for change

Science will likely never stop learning

Correct, i have no problem with learning, i guess you have

There is way more to learn in the scriptures than science, so I guess you are the one who has limited learning abilities. I don't mean to criticize. I'm just reflecting your thoughtless comments back at you. I have little doubt that you are a fine, intelligent individual. A bit misinformed perhaps, but that is certainly not a character flaw.

How in the world you have my lack of thirst for knowledge pegged with next to no evidence is baffling. Just glad you're not on a jury that will determine my fate.

 

[rrobs]

No, there really are not. But it is nice to know that you reject the myths of Genesis. Science demonstrated those to be wrong a long time ago.

That is perhaps true as far as you understand Genesis, but your understanding is not the standard of truth.

Strawman much? Who has claimed that science is infallible?

Could be a misunderstanding on my part. Infallible is perhaps a bit strong. How about, "enamored by science?"

 

[rrobs]

No, there really are not.

Which books about science in the Bible have you read? Any examples of what they may have said is false?

 

[ChristineM]

There is way more to learn in the scriptures than science

I don't believe tou just said that, i really don't. What has one bronze age book compared to particle physics, quantum mechanics, cosmology, biology etc, etc, etc, etc.

so I guess you are the one who has limited learning abilities.

5 university qualifications ain't limited

I don't mean to criticize.

Yes you do

A bit misinformed perhaps, but that is certainly not a character flaw.

The projection, it burns, it burns

How in the world you have my lack of thirst for knowledge pegged with next to no evidence is baffling.

What? Why are you contradicting yourself?

 

[rrobs]

5 university qualifications ain't limited

No debate classes in all those degrees?

1Cor 3:19,

For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.​

 

[rrobs]

I don't believe tou just said that, i really don't. What has one bronze age book compared to particle physics, quantum mechanics, cosmology, biology etc, etc, etc, etc.

I wonder what future scientists will think about our crude knowledge of particle physics, quantum mechanics, cosmology, biology etc, etc, etc, etc. 4,000 years from now?

 

[ChristineM]

No debate classes in all those degrees?

1Cor 3:19,

For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.​

I dont need a degree in talking

But don't let it upset you.

Here have some scripture right back at ya

Proverbs 15:14

The heart of him who has understanding seeks knowledge, but the mouths of fools feed on folly.​

Hosea 4:6-7

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge; because you have rejected knowledge, I reject you from being a priest to me. And since you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children. The more they increased, the more they sinned against me; I will change their glory into shame.​

 

[rrobs]

The projection, it burns, it burns

The part where I said I think you are an intelligent person? Thanks for the compliment!

 

[ChristineM]

I wonder what future scientists will think about our crude knowledge of particle physics, quantum mechanics, cosmology, biology etc, etc, etc, etc. 4,000 years from now?

I think they will think "good start and look at where it has lead, look at the benefits reaped by humanity from those early seeds"

 

[ChristineM]

The part where I said I think you are an intelligent person? Thanks for the compliment!

The part i replied to, the part i quoted.

However i do think you are intelligent, but wasted on an narrow viewpoint

 

[ppp]

I answered your question with a question.

I would appreciate it if you were less evasive, and more forthright.

Specifically, I asked why take anything ancient man says about math or science should be taken seriously, given their penchant for spiritual matters.

I already answered that question. Because the math is demonstrable. The spiritual matters are not.

And no. quoting 1 Cor 2:4 is not a demonstration. It's just some guy saying the word demonstration.

You don't like the science in the Bible (just your opinion, I might add), so you throw out everlasting life in paradise. That's what I meant by throwing out the baby with the bath water. It is a good analogy.

There is no science in the Bible. There is no baby. There is no bath water. So, yeah. An analogy to nothing is entirely apt.

BTW, I used to think just like you as did virtually all 2.5 billion Christians.

Well, that's obviously false. You don't think these grand sweeping stereotyping claims through.

 

[rrobs]

I dont need a degree in talking

But don't let it upset you.

Here have some scripture right back at ya

Proverbs 15:14

The heart of him who has understanding seeks knowledge, but the mouths of fools feed on folly.​

Hosea 4:6-7

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge; because you have rejected knowledge, I reject you from being a priest to me. And since you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children. The more they increased, the more they sinned against me; I will change their glory into shame.​

Thanks for bringing up those verses!

The entirety of Proverbs deals with the knowledge that comes from respecting God.

Prov 1:7,

The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction.
​

Before getting upset by the words "fear of the Lord," (specifically the word "fear") you may want to check every usage of that word in the scriptures to see how God uses it instead of interjecting your own ideas. Suffice it to say, it means to reverence or respect.

• verb fear regard with feelings of respect and reverence; consider hallowed or exalted or be in awe of "Fear God as your father","We venerate genius"

fear - definition, etymology and usage, examples and related words​

In any case putting Proverbs 1:7 together with Proverbs 15:14, we can see that a lack of respect and awe for God is folly.

I might also point out that the lack of knowledge mentioned in Hosea 4:6 is a lack of knowledge of God. Read the context, namely verse 1.

Hos 4:1,

Hear the word of the LORD, ye children of Israel: for the LORD hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because [there is] no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land.
​

I think taking things out of context is a huge factor in people's misunderstanding. Most don't do that with profane literature, but for some reason all normal reading skills seem to vanish when it comes to the scriptures. Go figure.

 

[rrobs]

The part i replied to, the part i quoted.

However i do think you are intelligent, but wasted on an narrow viewpoint

I used to have your viewpoint, but I used my intelligence to change according to new evidence. You don't know that you may jump on the Christian bandwagon some time in the future. Don't worry, if you do, it's not as bad as you may think now.