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Christianity vs Baha'i

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
I see the Bab and Baha'u'llah are the promise. I also see Muhammad was foretold.

How you see it is up to you CG.

Regards Tony
Yet, you cite no verses to back up your claim. What... Muhammad is one of the "Two Witnesses" and one of the "Three Woes"? And the other two "Woes" are The Bab and Baha'u'llah? Both interpretations, for me, are extremely questionable. But not to worry, and I know you won't, Christians are just as set in their interpretations. And they also, "leave it up to me.' Well, maybe both of you are wrong. Both religions have their problems in actually having their followers apply the beliefs and tenets of their religion into their daily lives. Sure, a few do, most don't. They just plod along following their religion in a nominal way.

Like I've said, I was there with my Baha'i friends 50 years ago on mass-teaching trips. What happened? I was told back then that whole villages had become Baha'i. Where are they? What happened to them? The Peace statement was back in the 80's. What happened? Where are the Baha'is? How vibrant are the local communities? 'Cause in my area, no one ever hears about the Baha'is? And I'm just 40 miles from San Francisco. Where are they? Is this how the Bible speaks of the end times? No... Well yes, it does. What is happening now is exactly what the Bible says will be happening prior to the coming of the Messiah. But not what was supposed to be happening after he has already come. That is why I doubt and question the Baha'is... but I question the Christians too.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
There is only one man that has come from God as the Lamb [John 1:36], and as the Saviour [Luke 2:11].
That's true, Jesus Christ conferred salvation upon the individual, but Baha'u'llah came to confer salvation upon the entire world and establish the unity of its peoples.

“I confess that Thou hast no desire except the regeneration of the whole world, and the establishment of the unity of its peoples, and the salvation of all them that dwell therein.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 243

"We" in the following passage refers to both Christ and Baha'u'llah.

“They read the Evangel and yet refuse to acknowledge the All-Glorious Lord, notwithstanding that He hath come through the potency of His exalted, His mighty and gracious dominion. We, verily, have come for your sakes, and have borne the misfortunes of the world for your salvation. Flee ye the One Who hath sacrificed His life that ye may be quickened? Fear God, O followers of the Spirit, and walk not in the footsteps of every divine that hath gone far astray. Do ye imagine that He seeketh His own interests, when He hath, at all times, been threatened by the swords of the enemies; or that He seeketh the vanities of the world, after He hath been imprisoned in the most desolate of cities? Be fair in your judgement and follow not the footsteps of the unjust.” Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 10
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
There's a big difference between the spirit of prophethood that both Elijah and John had, and the unique position of the only begotten Son of God [John 3:18]. There is only one mediator between God and men; and only one mediator between the the old and new testaments. There is only one man that has come from God as the Lamb [John 1:36], and as the Saviour [Luke 2:11].
I agree, station of Jesus is different than the station of John or Elijah.
However, the authors of Bible in Bahai view, spoke metaphorically about return of Jesus, similar to the return of Elijah. Why could this not be the case? Is there a limit in God's abilities? He could have just created another person having same spiritual power as Jesus.
In our view, this is a test for Christians to recognize Christ when He came with a different name.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
That's true, Jesus Christ conferred salvation upon the individual, but Baha'u'llah came to confer salvation upon the entire world and establish the unity of its peoples.

“I confess that Thou hast no desire except the regeneration of the whole world, and the establishment of the unity of its peoples, and the salvation of all them that dwell therein.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 243

"We" in the following passage refers to both Christ and Baha'u'llah.

“They read the Evangel and yet refuse to acknowledge the All-Glorious Lord, notwithstanding that He hath come through the potency of His exalted, His mighty and gracious dominion. We, verily, have come for your sakes, and have borne the misfortunes of the world for your salvation. Flee ye the One Who hath sacrificed His life that ye may be quickened? Fear God, O followers of the Spirit, and walk not in the footsteps of every divine that hath gone far astray. Do ye imagine that He seeketh His own interests, when He hath, at all times, been threatened by the swords of the enemies; or that He seeketh the vanities of the world, after He hath been imprisoned in the most desolate of cities? Be fair in your judgement and follow not the footsteps of the unjust.” Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 10

The Bible says that Jesus is the Savior of all people. Is Jesus the Savior of all men? | NeverThirsty
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If Jesus really came back to life, it blows the whole Baha'i religion to pieces.

A big, big, big if CG.

People are free to hang on to that If.

Science tells us what happens to flesh, but everyone wants the miracle over the hard choices.

God fobid that a Christian could have got it wrong!

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
But even as a spiritual being, Christ was on earth in the midst of men.

1 Corinthians 10:3,4. 'And [Moses and the Israelites] did all eat the same spiritual meat;
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.'

I see Christ lives still in many hearts, Christ has never left humanity alone and unguided all around the world.

It was said, that many sheep Christ has that were not of the fold Jesus came for.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
And you believe it? And you investigated the truth of this for yourself? And you had no questions? I would still call it "Baha'is make the fictional character Adam a manifestation because their prophet said so." Did Krishna come before Adam? If not how about the other incarnations of Vishnu that came before Krishna? Was Adam over 900 years old when he died? What religion did he found? Nothing, none, zero... he's a character in the many characters in the Jewish Bible. They don't make him into a manifestation of God, so why do Baha'is? I know, because Baha'u'llah said so. Did Jesus? Did Moses? Did Muhammad? King David was the "Lord's Anointed" why not make him a manifestation? He even wrote some God inspired things?

The Kitab-i-Iqan helps with all this.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Again, it is a title. Someone calls himself "Yahweh" does that mean he is God? I know several people named "Jesus". Does that mean they are The Jesus? Revelation implies that the Lamb is Jesus and that it is Jesus, as the Lamb of God, that is returning. Read it. Revelation isn't that long.

Revelation tells of Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

When we know Jesus was Christ, the Holy Spirit, the Light of God and that it is the Holy Spirit that guides us and is Given by God to God's chosen Messengers, then it is up to us to connect with and find that light, from no matter where it shines.

1 John 1:5
This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

This is what it is to be born again;

1 Peter 2:9
But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

That one would be a great passage also for my OP about why beleivers can not be quite.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
There's a big difference between the spirit of prophethood that both Elijah and John had, and the unique position of the only begotten Son of God [John 3:18]. There is only one mediator between God and men; and only one mediator between the the old and new testaments. There is only one man that has come from God as the Lamb [John 1:36], and as the Saviour [Luke 2:11].

That mediator is Christ, the Holy Spirit.

That is how Jesus is the first and the Last, not the body, the Spirit Jesus was Annointed with and known as Christ.

Regards Tony
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
I agree, station of Jesus is different than the station of John or Elijah.
However, the authors of Bible in Bahai view, spoke metaphorically about return of Jesus, similar to the return of Elijah. Why could this not be the case? Is there a limit in God's abilities? He could have just created another person having same spiritual power as Jesus.
In our view, this is a test for Christians to recognize Christ when He came with a different name.

Elijah will return during the Tribulation. Two witnesses - Wikipedia
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Revelation tells of Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

When we know Jesus was Christ, the Holy Spirit, the Light of God and that it is the Holy Spirit that guides us and is Given by God to God's chosen Messengers, then it is up to us to connect with and find that light, from no matter where it shines.

1 John 1:5
This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

This is what it is to be born again;

1 Peter 2:9
But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

That one would be a great passage also for my OP about why beleivers can not be quite.

Regards Tony

The Bible doesn't mention Mohammad. Moses was talking about Jesus, not Mohammad. Does Deuteronomy 18:15-18 predict the coming of Muhammad? | CARM.org

Does Deuteronomy 18:15-18 predict the coming of Muhammad?
by Ryan Turner

It is amazing to hear some of the claims of Muslims that the Bible actually predicts the coming of the Prophet Muhammad. These Muslims believe that the Bible teaches this based on such passages in the Qur’an as Surah 7:157. However, the passages from the Bible that these Muslims appeal to are always taken out of context. One of these popular passages is Deuteronomy 18:15-18.1

Deuteronomy 18:15-18
“The LORD your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your midst, from your brethren. Him you shall hear, 16 according to all you desired of the LORD your God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, nor let me see this great fire anymore, lest I die.’ 17 And the LORD said to me: ‘What they have spoken is good. 18 I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him (NKJV)."

In spite of the claims of Muslims, there are many reasons why this passage does not refer to prophet Muhammad.2

“Brethren” Refers to Jews
First, given the context of Deuteronomy 18, the term “brethren” is referring to their fellow Israelites. Deuteronomy 18:2, says “They shall have no inheritance among their brethren.” Also, elsewhere in the book of Deuteronomy the term “brethren” refers to fellow Israelites (Deuteronomy 17:15). Since the term “brethren” refers to Israelites, why would God raise up a prophet from the enemies of Israel, the Arabs?

Muhammad from Ishmael
Second, Muhammad came from Ishmael, as Muslims admit, but heirs to the Jewish throne came from Isaac. The Torah states, “My covenant I will establish with Isaac,” (Genesis 17:21). Later, God repeats the same message, “In Isaac your seed shall be called,” (Genesis 21:12).

Prophetic Line through Isaac
Third, the Qur’an teaches that the prophetic line came through Isaac, not Ishmael: “And We bestowed on him Isaac and Jacob, and We established the Prophethood and the Scripture among his seed” (29:27). However, Yusuf Ali adds the word Abraham in the translation to make it read: “We gave (Abraham) Isaac and Jacob, and ordained among his progeny Prophethood and Revelation.” By adding Abraham, it is possible to include Muhammad in the prophetic line! However, Abraham is not found in the Arabic text of the Qur’an which Muslims consider to be perfectly correct!

Jesus Fulfilled Deuteronomy 18:15-18 Perfectly
Fourth, Jesus fulfilled Deuteronomy 18 perfectly. (1) He came from his Jewish brethren (Galatians 4:4). (2) Deuteronomy 18:18 says, “He shall speak to them all that I [God] command Him.” Jesus said, “I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things” (John 8:28; cf. John 12:49). Finally, (3) Jesus called himself a “prophet” (Luke 13:33) and the people considered him to be a prophet (Matthew 21:11; Luke 7:16; 24:19; John 4:19; 6:14; 7:40; 9:17).

Therefore, given the above evidence, it is Jesus, not Muhammad who fulfilled this prophecy in Deuteronomy 18.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
In our view, this is a test for Christians to recognize Christ when He came with a different name.
But Christ said that those who came saying "I am Christ" would deceive many, so that indicates the name would not be Christ. ;)

Matthew 24:5
“For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.”

Jesus was right about many coming and claiming to be Christ.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
The Bible says that Jesus is the Savior of all people. Is Jesus the Savior of all men? | NeverThirsty
Jesus was the Savior of all people, that was part of His Mission.

Baha'u'llah's Mission was regeneration of the whole world and the establishment of the unity of its peoples.

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Hmmm? It is easy to see how Jesus is the child and the son that is given. And all Christians have to do is say that this will be fulfilled when he comes back... like he promised. But how do Baha'is make Baha'u'llah the child and the son?
The Christians can say whatever they want to say, and they can wait however long they want to wait, but that will not make Jesus come back.

The child and the son could well be Jesus, but none of the rest of the verses are about Jesus.
Since Jesus and Baha'u'llah are the same Spirit of God, some prophecies are about both of them.
So the gospel writers told a "story"? Implying that it is a fictional story? So how did the tomb get empty? How did they get people to spread the stories of Jesus being seen? When did these stories first start getting spread? Were the apostles still alive and supporting the false story? Or, were they all dead and people started the rumors about Jesus having appeared to the apostles? Of course, you don't know. But it is so easy for you to say.
I do not know and I do not say I know, and I do not care, because I believe the stories are fictional and I leave it at that.
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
I believe the Lamb was Jesus. Baha'u'llah was the Glory of God and the return of the Lamb.

Baha’u’llah means Glory of God in Arabic and the following verses refer to Him.

Revelation 21:22-23 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

I believe Jesus was the "one mediator" for His Dispensation, but there has been a mediator between God and man for every Dispensation.

It seems to me that you have created dispensations that have no justification within scripture.

If Baha'u'llah was a mediator, was he also sinless? Did he die for the sin of mankind? Does mankind need a second Lamb?
 
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