We are engrafted into the tribe of Judah as a wild olive branch.... But I'm not sure what your point is.
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Do Santa, Christmas Trees etc. Bother You?
- Thread starter Rival
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Does the term Jewish come from the tribe of Judah or thats a coincidence? Similar to African Americans not calling themselves Africans, Jewish people generally dont call themselves Hebrews or Israelites. Thats different from Italians calling themselves Italian Americans and also Italians. I think the diaspora of the tribe of Judah has to do with it.
I still don't understand the point you are trying to make. (though your information is good.)
Everything written in the Bible teaches us lessons.....the whole reason for its existence is to record God's dealings with sinful humanity whist teaching us those lessons.
In the majority of cases, those who were used by God to teach his people a lesson, were unaware that he was using them.....they actually thought they were doing it themselves.
Revelation 17:15-18 is an example when God destroys "Babylon the great". The kings of the earth think its their idea to get rid of her, and afterwards lament the fact that they did.
Can I ask you what you believe "Babylon the great" is? God's "people" are told to "get out of her" if we do not want to share in her sins and punishment. (Revelation 18:45) What is it that we need to leave? And how did God's people get in Babylon the great to start with?
Its true, that God can use even his enemies to accomplish his purpose, but the point with Baalam, who was not an Israelite, was that he had no intention of blessing Israel even though he claimed Jehovah as his God. He went there with the express purpose of cursing them for the promise of money. But instead God made his curses come out as blessings.....how that must have angered him! He did not heed God's voice, but he heard his own voice saying what he did not intend.
In the context of what took place, the old prophet lied and led the other prophet to disobey his God, but his motives are not stated. How ironic to use the lair to tell the truth about the punishment the other prophet would receive for his disobedience, when he was the one who ultimately led him to his death. His behavior after the fact indicated a guilty conscience....a regret that no doubt never left him. But the younger prophet was also at fault. Many lessons there.
"1. Balaam blessed Israel and was used of God - but let money get in the way and fame"
That was not the point at all. Balaam's intention all along was to curse Israel, but instead God turned his intended curses into blessings, much to his chagrin. He was looking forward to his reward for doing that, but he was foiled in the attempt. I can just imagine him wondering where his words were coming from.
"2. He heard the voice of God and followed God's commandment and did not curse Israel. . . even though at the end he told them how to make Israel sin (all for the money and fame)"
Again you missed the point IMO. Balaam got clear direction from God, but he had no intention of following God's command. God forced the outcome against Balaam's wishes and intent.
You haven't established anything except offer opinions. Not that they are bad opinions but just opinions.
And all of that coming from the real subject... Christmas!Blessed Christmas Deeje - everyday.
I don't believe that there is anything "blessed" about Christmas. I find it a complete abhorrence TBH......a fake and phony way to honor the Christ IMO, whilst leaving out the really important things. But if you love it and can justify its celebration in your "Christianity"......then so be it. It has no place in mine.
I am sorry for any ill feeling my words may have caused you....it wasn't done out of one-up-manship, but out of a true Christian obligation to reach out and tell people the honest truth. People back in the first century didn't like the truth either because they were set in their ways, and their beliefs were like a comfortable pair of old slippers, reinforced by the religious system that they were a part of......sadly, history repeats, as Jesus said it would.
If what has been discussed has no 'ring of truth for you', then I am to do what Jesus commanded.... "shake the dust off my feet" and move on....
The truth is offered.....but never forced.
I sincerely wish you well.
It has to do with your comment about we are engrafted into the tribe of Judah. Is it in the ethno religious cultural sense? Jewish religious aspects and ethnicity came from the tribe of Judah, but the culture of the Hebrews existed before Moses.
Why was the entire tribe of Midian judged for Balaam leading two women astray? Is it because they sinned against Israel as a nation and there was collective judgement?
I think Jewish people secretley agree with Christians but believing in a Savior is not a comftorable belief and like you said, people are set in their ways influenced by religion. I believe that people are separated from God by sin and they supress that by finding meaning in things like religious traditions.
Agree completely!! And one historical event can have multiple Bible lessons.
Noah wasn't an Israelite. And notice that he claimed Jehovah as his God. So, it appears that my "lesson" has a better application. Incidentally, Noah wasn't an Israelite but he heard God too.
Yes.... great lessons there. Of course, the point was that a good prophet did an evil thing that got another man of God killed. Balaam also was called an did an evil thing.
Yes, God did not allow him.
Yes... truth is not forced. Romans 14 is enforced... and so you can help the weaker in faith. HOWEVER, don't teach traditions of men (birthdays) as commandments of God. Those were the people that Jesus had the biggest problems with.
I know you honor Go and I do wish you well.
Yes we do. Jesus was 30 years of age when he presented himself for baptism. His ministry lasted for three and a half years...which makes him thirty three and a half when he died.
It wasn't just two women.....the Israelites were set up by Balak and Balaam so that they would offend their own God and receive his curse all by themselves.
"Balaam still entertained hope of having that rich reward for which he had come so far and for which he had worked so hard. If he could not curse Israel himself, he reasoned, perhaps God himself would curse his own people, if only they could be seduced to engage in sex worship of the Baal of Peor.
So “Balaam . . . went teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit fornication.” (Re 2:14) “By Balaam’s word,” the daughters of Moab and Midian “served to induce the sons of Israel to commit unfaithfulness toward Jehovah over the affair of Peor, so that the scourge came upon the assembly of Jehovah.” (Nu 31:16) The result: 24,000 men of Israel died for their sin. (Nu 25:1-9)
Neither Midian nor Balaam escaped divine punishment. Jehovah commanded that all the men, women, and boys of Midian be executed; only virgins were spared. “And they killed Balaam the son of Beor with the sword.” (Nu 25:16-18; 31:1-18) As for the Moabites, they were barred from the congregation of Jehovah “to the tenth generation.”—De 23:3-6."
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200000543?q=midian+balaam&p=par
The Jews had God's laws and they were very specific. They were an imperfect people shackled to a perfect law that none of them could keep perfectly. It was designed that way so that the Jews were reminded on a daily basis that they were sinners in need of a savior.
When God sent the Savior, they rejected him because the Jewish Leaders hated him and went on the offensive with their own campaign against him, accusing him of being in league with the devil and charging him with blasphemy for claiming to be "the son of God".
Seeing his miracles, the crowds went after him and he showed them foregleams of what life under his Kingdom's rulership would be like.....healing the sick, restoring deformities, expelling demons and even raising the dead. But when he was arrested and brought before Pilate, he was found to be innocent of any legitimate charges incurring the death penalty. But the crowd went into an uproar and, under the influence of their religious leaders, clamored for his death, even cursing themselves and their children with his blood. (Matthew 27:25) They got their wish.
He did not elevate the Pharisees as they expected the Messiah to do, but he shamed them and exposed their hypocrisy which tore them to shreds. Any wonder that they plotted to kill him? Jesus said that is the way they always dealt with the prophets sent to correct them. (Matthew 23:37-39) God was left with no choice but to abandon them.
The crime that influenced the punishment of all the Midianites was influenced by the sin of two women. Why were they obligated to die and accept the punishment of Israel for the crimes of two people? The Israelites were set up by Balam and Balak using two women. Was it the entire tribe of Midian, or just that group? During the judgement, why didnt or couldnt they have fled at that point? The Israelites gave the Caananites the option to flee. Wouldn't more Moabites have come to God if they werent banned from the assembly?
Ummm....Noah lived a good while before Israel (Jacob) was even born. Noah was the only righteous man alive at that time and God chose him to preserve alive his own family and all of the animals kinds on the ark when he destroyed the world of that time. God then used the circumstances of the pre-flood world to instruct us about the time of the end when Christ was to make his second appearance. (Matthew 24:37-39)
One does not need to be an Israelite to hear God's voice before he even formed his people into a nation. But once he did form them into a nation, he covenanted with them to obey the laws he gave only to them. They agreed to the terms of their own free will. But they never kept them.
The Patriarchs were the heads of their own clans and they acted as priests and instructed their families in God's ways. Abraham and Job were also Patriarchs. Israel was still a couple of generations away.
Birthdays are the traditions of men, so I believe you have that a bit backwards.... but your comment there works in reverse.....
"don't teach traditions of men (birthdays) as commandments of God".....is God using you to tell the truth against your will. LOL.
The people Jesus had the most problem with were those who were immovably stuck in their man made traditions and who stubbornly refused to give them up when he exposed the truth about them.
I think the captives werent allowed to flee because they had nowhere to go and would have been hunted down as part of collective judgement, similar to daniel being captive during the judgement of israel, and the rapture, which dont occur in the age of grace.
Please read Numbers 31 and see that it was not just two women. The Midianites were sex and idol worshippers who used the feminine charms of many women to induce the Israelite men to sin, committing fornication and sharing in food sacrificed to idols. God left them in no doubt what he thought of them.
If 24,00 Israelite men were put to death over this sin, then it wasn't just two women, was it?
It was apparently many Midianite women who were sent to cause the Israelite men to sin, incurring God's anger on themselves. But because of their immoral, idol worshipping ways God caused an extermination of the Midianite nation....sparing only the virgins who had not engaged in sexual immorality.
Please read Numbers 31 and see that it was not just two women. The Midianites were sex and idol worshippers who used the feminine charms of many women to induce the Israelite men to sin, committing fornication and sharing in food sacrificed to idols. God left them in no doubt what he thought of them.
If 24,00 Israelite men were put to death over this sin, then it wasn't just two women, was it?
It was apparently many Midianite women who were sent to cause the Israelite men to sin, incurring God's anger on themselves. But because of their immoral, idol worshipping ways God caused an extermination of the Midianite nation....sparing only the virgins who had not engaged in sexual immorality.
The Midianite boys and men didn't engage in sexual immorality.
Sorry, you've lost me.....what captives do you mean? What collective judgment?
Daniel was a captive in Babylon for most of his life was because of the sins of his forefathers, but he and his three companions, (Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah) rather than being absorbed into Babylonian religion and culture, stuck to the worship of Jehovah in spite of everything they endured. Not sure where the rapture comes in at this point, but perhaps you can clarify....?
The whole nation were sex worshippers. Men were raised to regard sex as part of their worship.
Thats grotesque, but outside of the Old Testament and the Rapture, God never judged nations that way. Whats the explanation when talking to people about the Bible?
When I mentioned captives and collective judgement, I was talking about the Midianites. Rahab was almost executed because of collective judgement. The Bible doesn't say that she was a temple prostitute, but similar to Daniel being captive because of the sins of his nation, she was almost affected by the consequences of their mistakes. The rapture is an example of collective judgement, because it doesn't occur during the age of grace. I think the Moabites being banned from worship till the tenth generation is an example of people being punished for the sins of their forefathers. The same with the Midianites and the rapture.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
How do you know he was baptized on his 30th birthday? and how do you know his ministry lasted exactly 3 1/2 years?
The pre-flood world of Noah's day merited God's anger and he took drastic action to rid the world of wickedness at that time.
What about Nineveh? Jonah was sent to this non-Israelite city that was renown for its violence, being called "the bloody city" in Nahum 3:1. It was built by Nimrod who was the first rebel after the Noachian flood. (Genesis 10:11)
God's judgment was that he was going to destroy it because of its gross wickedness and he sent Jonah to tell them what God was going to do about them......much to Jonah's shock, the whole city repented and it was spared, but it wasn't long before it reverted to its old ways and God ended up carrying out his original plan.
You can read about it here...
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1960165?q=nineveh&p=par
Sodom and Gomorrah were another two cities which were so immoral that God could not tolerate them.
These places and God's response to them, set up a pattern that the apostle Peter referred to....
2 Peter 2:4-10...
"Certainly God did not refrain from punishing the angels who sinned, but threw them into Tarʹta·rus, putting them in chains of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment. 5 And he did not refrain from punishing an ancient world, but kept Noah, a preacher of righteousness, safe with seven others when he brought a flood upon a world of ungodly people. 6 And by reducing the cities of Sodʹom and Go·morʹrah to ashes, he condemned them, setting a pattern for ungodly people of things to come. 7 And he rescued righteous Lot, who was greatly distressed by the brazen conduct of the lawless people— 8 for day after day that righteous man was tormenting his righteous soul over the lawless deeds that he saw and heard while dwelling among them. 9 So, then, Jehovah knows how to rescue people of godly devotion out of trial, but to reserve unrighteous people to be destroyed on the day of judgment, 10 especially those who seek to defile the flesh of others and who despise authority."
These are pictorial example that help us to see where this world is going....and what God will do to rid the whole world of wickedness and those who practice it.
In this time of the end, God is separating mankind into "sheep and goats" in order to bring his purpose to a finish.