Do Santa, Christmas Trees etc. Bother You?

[Zaha Torte]

When I was little I remember my uncle saying when the soldiers brought Christmas to Japan they introduced Christianity there.
What they really introduced was " Christendom " ( so-called Christian but mostly in name only )
Mostly Christmas with its focus on 'gift exchanging' , or as my aunt said a commercial holiday to help keep the economy going.

Better than nothing. The more exposure the more likely they will get to Christ.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Reading about ‘joyous occasions,’ ‘feasting,’ etc., made me think of this....

Ecclesiastes 7:1-4....

Kohelet 7
Orthodox Jewish Bible

7 A shem tov is better than precious ointment; and the yom hamavet than the day of one’s birth.

2 It is better to go to the bais evel (house of mourning), than to go to the bais mishteh (house of feasting); for that is the sof (end, conclusion; see 12:13) of kol haAdam; and the living will take it to heart.

3 Ka’as (sorrow) is better than laughter; for sadness of the countenance is good for the lev.

4 The lev of chachamim is in the bais evel (house of mourning); but the lev of kesilim is in the bais simchah.

 

[Kenny]

I find No St. Nicholas in the Bible.
In Scripture I find God knows and chooses who are to be saints or holy ones ( Daniel 7:18 )

that's because he lived after.

Scriptures say all Christians are "saints"./

Ephesians 4:12
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Rom 15:26For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.


and a host of other scriptures.

 

[Kenny]

Can you pick the fault in these three nativity scenes?
If one is more correct...which one would it be?

None that I can see.

 

[metis]

Scriptures say all Christians are "saints"./

Alive or deceased per "the communion of saints".

BTW, have you seen St. Metis listed? I gotta be there somewhere, right?

 

[Kenny]

Alive or deceased per "the communion of saints".

BTW, have you seen St. Metis listed? I gotta be there somewhere, right?

You are listed right after Praying Metis (or was it mantis?) I don't remember

I think there are two communions... the ones that are still alive and the ones who are a great cloud of witnesses

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Lol this is a thing where you are?

I think I made birthday cards.

 

[Deeje]

None that I can see.

Let me ask you who are in those scenes commonly displayed at Christmas.....and where are they?

 

[Kenny]

Let me ask you who are in those scenes commonly displayed at Christmas.....and where are they?

Yes... it is always erroneously displayed as such.

It should be shepherds in one... and the 3 kings at a home.

 

[metis]

I think there are two communions... the ones that are still alive and the ones who are a great cloud of witnesses

I think it likely goes even beyond this as the early Church did believe and teach that the living saints can pray for the saints that have passed-over and vice-versa, which is what "communion of saints" implies. And since no one knows how many there are or who exactly they are, even asking a passed-away relative to ask and/or appeal to God is not out of the question, imo. Either way, I don't think it hurts for us to ask for help while recognizing that this is ultimately God's choice.

BTW, even before the Church was borne, we know that some Jews believed in the exact same thing, and this shows up in one of the Apocrypha books, but I can't remember which one. Matter of fact, I often can't remember that I can't remember.

 

[Deeje]

Christians who are living their religion every day shouldn't be bothered by this one day that helps everyone (even non-Christians) focus on Christian principles.

What Christian principles?....you mean greed, selfishness and gluttony? No to mention drunkenness....

Ask the police what they think about Christmas time......domestic (alcohol fueled) violence always goes through the roof at this time of year.....do you know why?
The "happy family" time that Christmas was supposed to represent has been destroyed by divorce as people squabble over whose place the kids will have Christmas dinner....or who can bribe their kids with the most "toys". It can get ugly.

Who cares if they add a fat guy and a tree.

I think God does. He made it pretty clear how he feels about his people adopting false worship.

That whole "put Christ back into Christmas" thing is a joke....he was never "in" Christmas in the first place.

 

[metis]

On Christmas Day [or Eve], we Catholics go to mass and worship God and thank Him for the gift of his Son, but to all too many JW's that's somehow wrong.

 

[Martin]

I like Christmas as a Pagan festival. Apart from that it's ****e.

 

[Deeje]

Yes... it is always erroneously displayed as such.

It should be shepherds in one... and the 3 kings at a home.

Give that man a prize!

The first two have the Magi at the stable and the third one could be at the house where Jesus was living when they arrived.
The Magi were not kings but practicers of astrology, which God's word condemns. (Deuteronomy 18:9-12)
The word 'Magi" is where we get the word "magic"...which is also condemned in the Bible.

The three 'wise guys' were never at the stable...and the Bible does not say that there were three of them. It says only that they had three gifts. By the time they arrived, Jesus was two years old and living in a house with his parents.

The star that they followed was not sent by God but by the devil in an attempt to kill the child before he even had a chance to grow up. That star adorns Christmas trees around the world.

God revealed the birth of his son to Jewish shepherds who were tending their flocks at night outdoors. Something they could not do in the cold, rainy and sometimes snowy winter in the Middle East. There is no birthdate for Jesus recorded anywhere in the Bible. So where did December 25th come from. Its not hard to look it up and see what was celebrated on and around that date in pagan Rome....the Saturnalia.

These Babylonian astrologers who saw "his star" in the East, journeyed to Jerusalem as it led them there.

They alerted a murderous king who was determined that there was going to be no other 'King of the Jews" outside of his own dynasty. Once alerted Herod ascertained the time and place where the new king was to be born, and plotted to murder him. He was foiled though when God warned Joseph and told him to take Jesus and leave Bethlehem. Furious because he had been duped, Herod eventually sent orders to kill all the males babies two years of age and under. For some that meant losing more than one child. Would God be responsible for such a terrible crime? Jesus however was safely relocated.

After alerting Herod, the star led the Magi right to the very house where Jesus was now living with his parents.

If people just bothered to read the accounts in the Bible (Matthew 2 and Luke 1-2) they would see that the "Christmas" story is a web of lies......and the celebration is something abhorrent to God. For the majority of people in the world who celebrate Christmas, its not about Jesus at all....its about Santa and getting presents and eating and drinking too much.

Can you imagine someone wanting to celebrate your child's birthday but they didn't invite him, and they gave presents to everyone else but him, and then used to occasion to do all the things that you deplore....would you want your child's name associated with that event?

God hates lies and Christmas is full of them. It promotes the god of commerce and greed....not son of God whom we know from the Bible.

 

[metis]

I like Christmas as a Pagan festival.

Except that it's not really "pagan".

 

[Kenny]

The star that they followed was not sent by God but by the devil in an attempt to kill the child before he even had a chance to grow up. That star adorns Christmas trees around the world.

I would agree on your general view of the nativity.

Although a possibility, it remains a personal opinion about the star sent by the devil.

It is said that the Maggi's were descendants of those who studied under Daniel.

I think that the reason they were sent was that:

1. God knew that Herod was going to try to kill the child (His birth was already notorious)
2. God knew that Joseph and family were going to need some gold to live in Egypt.
3. It fulfilled scripture.

So I would hold to the position that it wasn't sent by the devil.

 

[Martin]

Except that it's not really "pagan".

So what is it then? Certainly not Christian.

 

[Deeje]

I would agree on your general view of the nativity.

The Bible sets it out quite plainly.

Although a possibility, it remains a personal opinion about the star sent by the devil.

It is said that the Maggi's were descendants of those who studied under Daniel.

Said by whom? Those trying to justify the celebration of Christmas?

Any who studied under Daniel would reject what God condemns...and we know what happens in succeeding generations...look at Israel....once God corrected them, it was the succeeding generations who wandered off into false worship again. If this was the case with the Magi, then they wandered back to their Babylonian roots.

When God warned the Israelites about not adopting the practices of the Canaanites when they took possession of the Promised Land, he specifically mentioned astrology and magic as things that were abhorrent to him. (Deuteronomy 18:9-12)

It was only the Magi who saw the star. The shepherds were Jewish and visited by angels.

Do you think God revealed this most important information to those whose worship he despised?

I think that the reason they were sent was that:

1. God knew that Herod was going to try to kill the child (His birth was already notorious)
2. God knew that Joseph and family were going to need some gold to live in Egypt.
3. It fulfilled scripture.

If the star was sent by God then he is directly responsible for the murder of all those infants.....can that be true?
There is only that one indication of the fact that the Magi did not visit the stable.....that Jesus was living in a house and was possibly two years old by the time they arrived. It doesn't say where Mary and Joseph were specifically living at the time, only that the star led them until it "came to a stop" over the house where Jesus was.
If the star could be so specific, then why lead the Magi to Herod? Since Mary and Joseph appear to be the only ones, (save for those few to whom God revealed it) who knew who and where this child was. Herod had to consult both the astrologers and the priests to find out his information.

Another reason why it is not possible for the Magi to have visited the newborn Jesus is that the mandatory sacrifice they presented at the Temple with the birth of a newborn (8 days old) was the offering of the poor...two turtle doves......if they had gold, then their offering would have reflected that.

If it fulfills scripture, that doesn't mean that God caused it, but simply that he foretold what was already in the future.....that is what prophesy is.....history written in advance.

So I would hold to the position that it wasn't sent by the devil.

That is up to you of course....but 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 tells us point blank that we cannot fuse the truth with lies and still be accepted as God's "sons and daughters". The devil is an "angel of light" when he needs to be...so, shouldn't we be careful about what we accept and justify because we like it?
Does God like it?...that's the most important question, surely?

 

[Martin]

Hopefully Christmas will be cancelled due to the covid, we can get back to our roots.
The barmy gun-toting mask-refusing fundamentalists will be shipped off to the "new world" somewhere in the Andromeda galaxy.
Like their dubious ancestors.

 

[Kenny]

Said by whom? Those trying to justify the celebration of Christmas?

Any who studied under Daniel would reject what God condemns...and we know what happens in succeeding generations...look at Israel....once God corrected them, it was the succeeding generations who wandered off into false worship again. If this was the case with the Magi, then they wandered back to their Babylonian roots.

When he warned the Israelites about not adopting the practices of the Canaanites when they took possession of the Promised Land, he specifically mentioned astrology and magic as things that were abhorrent to him. (Deuteronomy 18:9-12)

It was only the Magi who saw the star. The shepherds were Jewish and visited by angels.

Do you think God revealed this most important information to those whose worship he despised?

God loves the sinner... that is why He moved on your heart. He also moved on other non-believers.

But didn't God tell them - don't go back to King Herod? WHAAAAT? Talking to non-believers? Or were they believers as they offered gifts to what was going to be King Jesus? Why were they "wise" Maggi's? Because they were followers of Satan? I don't think so.

So, you are really making broad assumptions. Who knows, maybe Daniel converted a lot of people?

You could say "No, Ken, you are making assumptions" and that would be fine because there is simply not enough information and certainly nothing that says that the devil sent them. We do know that they were "wise", God spoke to them in a dream, and they came to honor Jesus.

None of these things point to being of the devil.

If the star was sent by God then he is directly responsible for the murder of all those infants.....can that be true?
There is only that one indication of the fact that the Magi did not visit the stable.....that Jesus was living in a house and was possibly two years old by the time they arrived. It doesn't say where Mary and Joseph were specifically living at the time, only that the star led them until it "came to a stop" over the house where Jesus was.
If the star could be so specific, then why lead the Magi to Herod? Since Mary and Joseph appear to be the only ones, (save for those few to whom God revealed it) who knew who and where this child was. Herod had to consult both the astrologers and the priests to find out his information.

Another reason why it is not possible for the Magi to have visited the newborn Jesus is that the mandatory sacrifice they presented at the Temple with the birth of a newborn (8 days old) was the offering of the poor...two turtle doves......if they had gold, then their offering would have reflected that.

If it fulfills scripture, that doesn't mean that God caused it, but simply that he foretold what was already in the future.....that is what prophesy is.....history written in advance.

Absolutely not. Nor is God responsible for the murder of the people of Moses' time because God sent them to Egypt.

But, yes, they visited a home.

That is up to you of course....but 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 tells us point blank that we cannot fuse the truth with lies and still be accepted as God's "sons and daughters". The devil is an "angel of light" when he needs to be...so, shouldn't we be careful about what we accept and justify because we like it?
Does God like it?...that's the most important question, surely?

Not sure how this is applicable... at the most, it covers both you and me equally.