Religious Concepts

[Heyo]

I'm looking here for concepts that are purely religious or spiritual without any connection to reality.
I'd also like to know if they are a consequence of the religion or if they have to be believed separately.
I know of a few in Christianity, Buddhism and Hinduism like:

• Original Sin
• Sin (state of)
• Salvation
  
• Heaven
• Hell
• Rebirth
• Karma
• Maya

What concepts does your religion have?
Are they a consequence from another concept?
Do you believe in them?

 

[Secret Chief]

without any connection to reality.

I'm not sure about this appertaining to my understanding of karma, rebirth, maya, heaven and hell. They are terms which have somewhat different meanings across Buddhist traditions. For me, karma means volitional action. Rebirth is continuous, endless change. Maya means illusion. Heaven and hell are states of mind. I view them therefore to be concepts rooted in reality.

As to consequential relations, I'm sure one could draw a quite complicated chart linking various concepts.

 

[Heyo]

I'm not sure about this appertaining to my understanding of karma, rebirth, heaven and hell. They are terms which have somewhat different meanings across Buddhist traditions. For me, karma means volitional action. Rebirth is continuous, endless change. Heaven and hell are states of mind. I view them therefore to be concepts rooted in reality.

As to consequential relations, I'm sure one could draw a quite complicated chart linking various concepts.

I may not really understand some of the concepts or know only of one or some of the interpretations.

 

[Secret Chief]

I may not really understand some of the concepts or know only of one or some of the interpretations.

Do you wish to test the boundaries of my ignorance?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I'm looking here for concepts that are purely religious or spiritual without any connection to reality.
I'd also like to know if they are a consequence of the religion or if they have to be believed separately.
I know of a few in Christianity, Buddhism and Hinduism like:

• Original Sin
• Sin (state of)
• Salvation
  
• Heaven
• Hell
• Rebirth
• Karma
• Maya

What concepts does your religion have?
Are they a consequence from another concept?
Do you believe in them?

As the people migrated away from ancient Babylon they took with them their religious-myth practices and ideas and spread them world wide into a greater religious Babylon or Babylon the Great.
This is why we see so many overlapping or similar religious ideas spread throughout the world today.
The concepts that Jesus believed in is what is recorded in the old Hebrew Scriptures (OT) - John 17:17 - as religious truth.
Jesus' teachings expounded and explained Scripture for us.

 

[Quintessence]

I know of no religious/spiritual concepts that have no connection to reality. All religious narratives derive from trying to make sense of our day-to-day experiences and life in general. It's inherently and unavoidably connected to reality.

 

[Heyo]

Do you wish to test the boundaries of my ignorance?

Just expressing mine. I never heard Karma and Rebirth explained like you did and I must say they are real world phenomena if you see them that way.
The image I had in mind were the survival of the Soul (another concept) and finding a new body and a counter of good and bad deeds that influences which body the soul will inhabit in the next life.

 

[Heyo]

As the people migrated away from ancient Babylon they took with them their religious-myth practices and ideas and spread them world wide into a greater religious Babylon or Babylon the Great.
This is why we see so many overlapping or similar religious ideas spread throughout the world today.
The concepts that Jesus believed in is what is recorded in the old Hebrew Scriptures (OT) - John 17:17 - as religious truth.
Jesus' teachings expounded and explained Scripture for us.

Yep, Truth™ is also a religious concept that has no connection to reality.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What concepts does your religion have?
Are they a consequence from another concept?
Do you believe in them?

Energy
Consciousness
Sacrifice (Communion/cross/servitude/blood/animal)
Water/Heat/Earth/Air (wind, so have you). Some say spirit too but I think that's a later addiction.
Reincarnation (cultivated state of being/one as god)
Rebirth (state of being/karma understood/lbw)

I don't have a religion. All my spirituality is isolated practices (not conformed to a set religious doctrine or Practice). Probably very boring since it's not worth debating.

Energy, elements, I take. Understanding consciousness more but not insofar I would associate my experience and understanding with any religion that teaches it.

 

[osgart]

Yep, Truth™ is also a religious concept that has no connection to reality.

How is the Truth you are referring to defined?

 

[Heyo]

How is the Truth you are referring to defined?

Objective. I.e. a fact that can be independently verified.

Wait...
You mean, how I define Truth™?
I don't have a definition except that it is that what is called Truth™ in a religious context. I have never understood what believers mean by it, I only know that it is not what I understand under truth.

 

[Secret Chief]

The image I had in mind were the survival of the Soul (another concept) and finding a new body and a counter of good and bad deeds that influences which body the soul will inhabit in the next life.

OK.
If one accepts the fundamental tenets of Buddhism, then there cannot be a soul (something which is considered to be abiding).
The consequences of kamma are termed phala.
As to inhabiting bodies in the next life, this is where it depends upon the traditions/schools. This idea is more closely associated with the earliest Buddhist tradition (The Theravada, which focusses on the recorded words of the Buddha). The later tradition (termed the Mahayana) moved away from this idea of one being being reborn as a different being in the next life (at least in the school I am a little familiar with - Zen).

 

[syo]

Original sin, sin and salvation do not exist in my religion.

The rest exist.

 

[osgart]

Objective. I.e. a fact that can be independently verified.

Wait...
You mean, how I define Truth™?
I don't have a definition except that it is that what is called Truth™ in a religious context. I have never understood what believers mean by it, I only know that it is not what I understand under truth.

Nor do I actually! I think they use the word Truth in context with their religious idea being objectively verifiable though! I.e. the spirit within bares witness to their testimony.
So like by the spirit we posses we can objectively verify that it is true what they say.

It actually feels like a psychological ploy. Most of the time it comes with social pressures, and rules to abide by; informed consequences for not believing in it.

 

[Nakosis]

I'm looking here for concepts that are purely religious or spiritual without any connection to reality.
I'd also like to know if they are a consequence of the religion or if they have to be believed separately.
I know of a few in Christianity, Buddhism and Hinduism like:

• Original Sin
• Sin (state of)
• Salvation
  
• Heaven
• Hell
• Rebirth
• Karma
• Maya

What concepts does your religion have?
Are they a consequence from another concept?
Do you believe in them?

I like the questioning. Can't help since like you, I'm not religious.
However, I seldom find much commonality between individuals. Most seem to have assimilated these ideas into something which meets what has been actual experiences they've personally have had.

Someone told me once when asking questions about the Torah, if you put 10 Jews in the same room and ask them a question about the Torah you will get 12 different answers.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

New I'm looking here for concepts that are purely religious or spiritual without any connection to reality.

So are you asking for Faith concepts not based on sound reasoning?

Faith should be based on sound reasoning and do not conflict true reality.

We must also consider Truth is relative.

2000 years ago one would be thought as unreasonable if one had said I will fly from America to Australia, I have Faith in a vehicle man made to do that.

Regards Tony

 

[Heyo]

So are you asking for Faith concepts not based on sound reasoning?

Yes. I'm looking for the "axioms". Those that have to be believed and can't be derived. Like science rests on the assumptions of reality, order and knowabillity, religions rest on unprovable concepts.
In Catholicism people enter the world in a state of Sin and the state changes to Grace (I forgot that in my list) with baptism.
Neither Sin nor Grace can be measured.

What are the axioms of Bah'ai?
[/QUOTE]

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes. I'm looking for the "axioms". Those that have to be believed and can't be derived. Like science rests on the assumptions of reality, order and knowabillity, religions rest on unprovable concepts.
In Catholicism people enter the world in a state of Sin and the state changes to Grace (I forgot that in my list) with baptism.
Neither Sin nor Grace can be measured.

What are the axioms of Bah'ai?

At this time I see that Messengers are the source of axioms, in the light that axiom is a statement as being self-evidently true.

They are the Message they give.

What you mentioned about Sin is such an axiom.

It has been said we are created at the end of Darkness (sin) and the beginning of Light (virtues) , meaning we have all the potential of the light, only when we choose to pursue the light.

We can then look at the world and judge the Messenger, we're they the light of virtue, did they enable people to change to virtue, was the Message calling us to virtue and away from darkness?

I think it can all be proven as self evidently true.

Regards Tony

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yep, Truth™ is also a religious concept that has no connection to reality.

I find there is 'truth in general' and 'religious truth' as found in the pages of Scripture as Jesus taught - John 17:17 - that God's Word is religious truth.
I am wondering if you have a particular verse or passage in mind that you think has No connection to reality ( especially today's reality )

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yes. I'm looking for the "axioms". Those that have to be believed and can't be derived. Like science rests on the assumptions of reality, order and knowabillity, religions rest on unprovable concepts.
In Catholicism people enter the world in a state of Sin and the state changes to Grace (I forgot that in my list) with baptism.
Neither Sin nor Grace can be measured.

Science is: Not the teacher or morality.
I find nothing unprovable about cultivating the fruit of God's spirit as listed at Galatians 5:22-23.
There is No provable law against such qualities or concepts.

Sure sin can be measured:
Sin is either on purpose or not
Sin is intentional or not
Sin is premeditated or not
Sin is by accident or not
Sin is willful or not

Sure God;s grace, His undeserved kindness can be measured:
Measured against biblical standards and principles.