Christians: The Nicene Creed?

[Eddi]

Here is the Nicene Creed:

We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God,
Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made;
of the same essence as the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven;
he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary,
and was made human.
He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried.
The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again with glory
to judge the living and the dead.
His kingdom will never end.
And we believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life.
He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified.
He spoke through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.
We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
and to life in the world to come. Amen.

Question: Do you either wholly accept it, partially accept it, or reject it all together?

And how important is it to you?

It's important to me as it's a snappy and concise summary of my Christian faith and I like that I share it with a great many other people

I think I entirely accept it

But I used to have a very slight issue where it says Jesus Christ is "the only Son of God"

Because I believe that God directly created other deities too, apart from Jesus Christ

But I now realise that by "son" it means "human male" - I believe that only one human male was ever "begotten" by God and that that person was Jesus Christ. But I believe God created other divine offspring such as The Holy Spirit

For instance, the Holy Spirit was created by God The Father, but is not a "son" of God as it is not a "human male" so cannot be called a "son" of anyone! And I don't believe the other deities who are not parts of the Godhead are human either although they may be humanoid.

So at the end of the day this is not an issue and I accept The Nicene Creed in its entirety

 

[Kenny]

We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.

I believe it in its entirety... but I think the Catholics believe that this means only Catholics. I see it as just the universal church.

 

[Eddi]

I see it as just the universal church

That has always been my understanding of the use of that term

 

[metis]

Here is the Nicene Creed:

We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God,
Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made;
of the same essence as the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven;
he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary,
and was made human.
He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried.
The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again with glory
to judge the living and the dead.
His kingdom will never end.
And we believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life.
He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified.
He spoke through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.
We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
and to life in the world to come. Amen.

Question: Do you either wholly accept it, partially accept it, or reject it all together?

And how important is it to you?

It's important to me as it's a snappy and concise summary of my Christian faith and I like that I share it with a great many other people

I think I entirely accept it

But I used to have a very slight issue where it says Jesus Christ is "the only Son of God"

Because I believe that God directly created other deities too, apart from Jesus Christ

But I now realise that by "son" it means "human male" - I believe that only one human male was ever "begotten" by God and that that person was Jesus Christ. But I believe God created other divine offspring such as The Holy Spirit

For instance, the Holy Spirit was created by God The Father, but is not a "son" of God as it is not a "human male" so cannot be called a "son" of anyone! And I don't believe the other deities who are not parts of the Godhead are human either although they may be humanoid.

So at the end of the day this is not an issue and I accept The Nicene Creed in its entirety

At the point at mass whereas this is said, I don't participate, and our priest knows that I'm just the kind of person who questions everything, including the Creeds, and he accept this.

 

[Eddi]

At the point at mass whereas this is said, I don't participate, and our priest knows that I'm just the kind of person who questions everything, including the Creeds, and he accept this.

What do you question about it?

 

[metis]

What do you question about it?

The vast majority of it, but "questioning" is not the same thing as "rejecting".

Gotta go.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I believe Jesus was neither created or begotten. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. These two individuals existed together form the beginning of time. Later, the Word took on human form under the name of Jesus. So the physical body of Jesus may have been created in the body of Mary but the personality that .ived that body was the personality of the Word which was neither begotten nor made because it existed alongside the Father form the beginning.

 

[Eddi]

In the beginning

In the beginning of what though?

I think where it says "in the beginning" it is referring to the beginning of this creation

Not the beginning of time itself

I think there have been countless creations before this one

Therefore I believe Jesus was made, but was made before the beginning of this creation, hence he was created, but was already in existence at the beginning of this creation

That's what I think, anyway

 

[Tambourine]

He proceeds from the Father and the Son,

That's the Western version of the Creed.

Filioque - Wikipedia

 

[SeekerOnThePath]

I believe it in its entirety... but I think the Catholics believe that this means only Catholics. I see it as just the universal church.

No, they see the Catholic Church as "The (Universal, Christian) Church" (which is institutionally and traditionally true), whereas Protestants are heretics who splintered off (which is also the case in Protestant's eyes, except they try and play the heresy card back on Catholics but that doesn't work).

 

[Kenny]

No, they see the Catholic Church as "The (Universal, Christian) Church" (which is institutionally and traditionally true), whereas Protestants are heretics who splintered off (which is also the case in Protestant's eyes, except they try and play the heresy card back on Catholics but that doesn't work).

I don't see the Catholics as heretics.

Do you have a Catholic background?

 

[SeekerOnThePath]

I don't see the Catholics as heretics.

Do you have a Catholic background?

No, I have a Protestant background, Protestants more than not have anti-Catholic views, whether overtly ("The Catholic Church or pope is the Antichrist") or more subtle (Catholics are very far from the truth but they're still Christians).

I was just poking at the diverse heretical nature of Protestantism compared to Catholicism (which defined Christian orthodoxy and canon itself).

 

[Kenny]

No, I have a Protestant background, Protestants more than not have anti-Catholic views, whether overtly ("The Catholic Church or pope is the Antichrist") or more subtle (Catholics are very far from the truth but they're still Christians).

I was just poking at the diverse heretical nature of Protestantism compared to Catholicism (which defined Christian orthodoxy and canon itself).

I would like to hear what a Catholic thinks what the Catholic and Apostolic Church means.

I believe most Catholics are Christians just like I believe there are some Protestants that are not Christians.

You are right that some believe the Pope will be the Anti-Christ... but that is just a guess... there is another group that think it will arise amongst the Muslim countries... but that is just a guess...

I don't think anybody really knows.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

In the beginning of what though?

I think where it says "in the beginning" it is referring to the beginning of this creation

Not the beginning of time itself

I think there have been countless creations before this one

Therefore I believe Jesus was made, but was made before the beginning of this creation, hence he was created, but was already in existence at the beginning of this creation

That's what I think, anyway

This does sound interesting but is there any Biblical or other support for it?

 

[Polymath257]

Historically, the Nestorians and the Arians did not accept the Nicene creed, but both can reasonably be described as Christian. Few of either type remain today.

 

[Katzpur]

Here is the Nicene Creed:

We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God,
Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made;
of the same essence as the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven;
he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary,
and was made human.
He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried.
The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again with glory
to judge the living and the dead.
His kingdom will never end.
And we believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life.
He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified.
He spoke through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.
We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
and to life in the world to come. Amen.

Question: Do you either wholly accept it, partially accept it, or reject it all together?

And how important is it to you?

It's important to me as it's a snappy and concise summary of my Christian faith and I like that I share it with a great many other people

I think I entirely accept it

But I used to have a very slight issue where it says Jesus Christ is "the only Son of God"

Because I believe that God directly created other deities too, apart from Jesus Christ

But I now realise that by "son" it means "human male" - I believe that only one human male was ever "begotten" by God and that that person was Jesus Christ. But I believe God created other divine offspring such as The Holy Spirit

For instance, the Holy Spirit was created by God The Father, but is not a "son" of God as it is not a "human male" so cannot be called a "son" of anyone! And I don't believe the other deities who are not parts of the Godhead are human either although they may be humanoid.

So at the end of the day this is not an issue and I accept The Nicene Creed in its entirety

While I don't subscribe to the Nicene Creed myself, I don't have any major issues with it. The less important issues I have with it are these:

1. "of the same essence as the Father" -- to date, nobody has ever been able to tell me anything about what this "essence" actually is, and the word was not used to describe God at all in the early Christian Church.

2. "he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary" -- Luke 1:35 states, "The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." Therefore, I believe the Holy Ghost played a role in the conception of Jesus Christ, but I believe He is the Son of the Father and not the Son of the Holy Ghost.

3. "He [the Holy Spirit] proceeds from the Father and the Son." I believe He proceeds from the Father but not from the Son. Just a point to consider... How could Jesus have become incarnate through the Holy Spirit if the Holy Spirit proceeds from Him (i.e. Jesus)? That's circular logic and it doesn't work.

 

[Katzpur]

This does sound interesting but is there any Biblical or other support for it?

There is as much support for it as there is any evidence against it. What part of it to you personally find troubling?

 

[Eddi]

This does sound interesting but is there any Biblical or other support for it?

I think it's reasonable to believe that, and that reason is a gift from God

I think we can put 1 and 1 together and make 2

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

There is as much support for it as there is any evidence against it. What part of it to you personally find troubling?

I am not really troubled by any of it. I remember seeing something some time ago that said there could have been two or more "creations". The earth could have been created millions of years ago. The Bible says it ways not created chaotic and lifeless. But then it somehow became that way. Then a few thousand years ago God was moving over this empty and lifeless world ( which was not created that way) and decided to recreate it anew in six days. That way, those people who say the earth is millions and years old and those who say it is only a few thousand years old can all be happy. Maybe there is some truth in this.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I think it's reasonable to believe that, and that reason is a gift from God

I think we can put 1 and 1 together and make 2

I am sure God often helps us understan thins.