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What is your best evidence for the nonexistence of God?

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
My best evidence for the non-existence of unicorns is the fact that nobody has ever produced one, nor have we found a fossil, or found any other credible hint that such a thing has ever existed. Although Tolkien wrote about living tree-like creatures called Ents (his writing being at least a sort of "evidence"), I've also never found anything outside of LOTR that suggests that such things have ever existed on this planet. No sightings, no fossils, no cave drawings...well, nothing really.

And for me, this is the same thing for God. Now please forgive me, I'm going to use only the Abrahamic version of God here -- personal, all-powerful, all-knowing, etc. It would seem to me that if such a thing existed, there would be some evidence that could not be misconstrued.

And having never seen that evidence, I have concluded -- in the same way that I deal with unicorns and Ents -- that this entity does not and did not exist.

So what is your best evidence (pay attention to that word -- it has meaning) that God actually exists?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
My best evidence for the non-existence of unicorns is the fact that nobody has ever produced one, nor have we found a fossil, or found any other credible hint that such a thing has ever existed. Although Tolkien wrote about living tree-like creatures called Ents (his writing being at least a sort of "evidence"), I've also never found anything outside of LOTR that suggests that such things have ever existed on this planet. No sightings, no fossils, no cave drawings...well, nothing really.

And for me, this is the same thing for God. Now please forgive me, I'm going to use only the Abrahamic version of God here -- personal, all-powerful, all-knowing, etc. It would seem to me that if such a thing existed, there would be some evidence that could not be misconstrued.

And having never seen that evidence, I have concluded -- in the same way that I deal with unicorns and Ents -- that this entity does not and did not exist.

So what is your best evidence (pay attention to that word -- it has meaning) that God actually exists?

Maybe god has a different criteria of evidence than unicorns?

That's probably why people aren't finding the evidence they ask for?
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Best evidence for the non-existence of God is the 1980's. Anyone who lived through that period can pretty much just say "1980's" man. That was a tough decade for God.

So what is your best evidence (pay attention to that word -- it has meaning) that God actually exists?
Probably the 1960's but since I wasn't alive then its unfair of you to ask me that.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I'm going to use only the Abrahamic version of God here -- personal, all-powerful, all-knowing, etc. It would seem to me that if such a thing existed, there would be some evidence that could not be misconstrued.
There are those who do take God, as expressed through the Abrahamic tradition, as something not akin to unicorns, Yetis, or E.T.s. Many do of course, and that is who you are speaking to. The more fundamentalist/traditionalist view of God that you find in Sunday School classrooms reflect this, but nothing really beyond that. To look for God, like you're searching for an elusive Yeti, is a laughable exercise for anyone, believers and skeptics alike. :)
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Maybe god has a different criteria of evidence than unicorns?

That's probably why people aren't finding the evidence they ask for?
One can "prove" anything by supposing such stuff. But that, of course -- given that I can also show that all sorts of things are not possible -- that such "proofs" are rubbish.

By which I am trying to suggest that arguments like "maybe god has a different criteria of evidence" are completely useless, because they are nothing but pure speculation.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
There are those who do take God, as expressed through the Abrahamic tradition, as something not akin to unicorns, Yetis, or E.T.s. Many do of course, and that is who you are speaking to. The more fundamentalist/traditionalist view of God that you find in Sunday School classrooms reflect this, but nothing really beyond that. To look for God, like you're searching for an elusive Yeti, is a laughable exercise for anyone, believers and skeptics alike. :)
You can "take God" to be anything that you'd like -- and I am keen to hear how you would present that. But my point remains, if you present a "god" with any attributes at all, then you ask me to look at those attributes, compare them to the reality in which I find myself, and see for myself whether it all hangs together.

As always, I wait with worms on my tongue ("bated breath") for your argument, so that I can examine it and decide for myself.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
I was alive then, vigorously. And God didn't show up then, either.
The 1960's had an interesting peace movement with a lot of good will for others around the world. It sounds to me like a lot of people wanted to put behind them the violence and the hate of the past and fear. They wanted to embrace the other and reject tribalism. They emphasized difference and they made a difference, and they tried many, many different ways of encouraging an appreciation of being different and acceptance. Even down to the bold and strange clothing styles they influenced everything, just pouring in this positive and creative impulse. It was like an electrical zap to the heart of the world.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You can "take God" to be anything that you'd like -- and I am keen to hear how you would present that. But my point remains, if you present a "god" with any attributes at all, then you ask me to look at those attributes, compare them to the reality in which I find myself, and see for myself whether it all hangs together.

As always, I wait with worms on my tongue ("bated breath") for your argument, so that I can examine it and decide for myself.
You're bent upon making this a rational decision, huh? Did it occur to you that life itself, is not necessarily a rational proposition? Do you really live as nothing but rationality, or do you have some sense of connection with life that goes beyond just what you can think in your head about it? Anything where you just "feel" the world, without analyzing it, and letting that analysis be what defines the texture of reality for you, like words printed on a page? You know, where you feel connected with the world and grounded? That sense?

If you can answer yes to that, then that's where you begin to look to find it. You shouldn't have to look too far. :)
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
One can "prove" anything by supposing such stuff. But that, of course -- given that I can also show that all sorts of things are not possible -- that such "proofs" are rubbish.

By which I am trying to suggest that arguments like "maybe god has a different criteria of evidence" are completely useless, because they are nothing but pure speculation.

Actually no. Each problem can be solved or theorized but it has it's own point of reference in which the problem can be solved.

There's nothing wrong with speculation. The criteria for god's existence is testimony and experience. It exists within that point of reference. Anything outside of it is, well, useless. I mean, what type of evidence are you looking for?

One day there needs to be acceptance that there is no objective evidence for god. The claims aren't set up for objective evidence. It's not written nor spoken of as objective. The testimonies are not objective. So, why assume there is evidence outside of speculations and experiences?
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
My best evidence for the non-existence of unicorns is the fact that nobody has ever produced one, nor have we found a fossil, or found any other credible hint that such a thing has ever existed. Although Tolkien wrote about living tree-like creatures called Ents (his writing being at least a sort of "evidence"), I've also never found anything outside of LOTR that suggests that such things have ever existed on this planet. No sightings, no fossils, no cave drawings...well, nothing really.

And for me, this is the same thing for God. Now please forgive me, I'm going to use only the Abrahamic version of God here -- personal, all-powerful, all-knowing, etc. It would seem to me that if such a thing existed, there would be some evidence that could not be misconstrued.

And having never seen that evidence, I have concluded -- in the same way that I deal with unicorns and Ents -- that this entity does not and did not exist.

So what is your best evidence (pay attention to that word -- it has meaning) that God actually exists?

The thread title asks about evidence for the non-existence of God, but in the post you're asking about evidence for the existence of God.

I think before it even gets to the evidence stage, one would need to first define exactly what "God" is and what about her/his/its existence one wishes to prove.

At least with unicorns, we have some drawings and artists' conceptions to go by, so if we did see a unicorn, we would know it. And, as you say, no one has found any fossils or any physical evidence that unicorns have ever existed. (Although I've heard some people say that sightings of unicorns might actually have been sightings of rhinos, but people just got confused. I suppose that's possible.)

It's just like with Santa Claus. There have been numerous and continuous surveys around the North Pole, and they would have spotted any large structures resembling Santa's workshop, and they certainly would have noticed a sleigh with flying reindeer.

But with "God," it's hard to know exactly where to look or what we're looking for. So, it's pretty much a dead end.

However, I will say that ENTs exist. It's a nickname for a sub-set of Star Trek fans whose favorite series is "Enterprise." (TOS fans are called "TOSsers," btw.)
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
There is no evidence for the non-existence of God. The same as there is no evidence of the non-existence of unicorns. There is only a distinct absence of evidence - the same that there is for infinitely many other things that one could conjure in their mind, but for which no presence in reality is to be expected.

Foe example, we completely lack evidence for the existence of "Shmooblefarbins" - which I just made up, but which I could relate the exact properties of, if someone cared enough to ask. Does my off-the-cuff description of "Shmooblefarbins" count as evidence of their existence? Perhaps they exist in my own mind? Is that really enough to go around talking as if I know so much about them, do you think? Doesn't that sound like a very strange thing for me to do? And yet it is done every, single day, by any theist who relates an idea of a god to any other person without actually having at hand evidence of the genuine article (or anything even remotely hinting at it beyond EXACTLY what I just did above - simply providing hearsay).
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Maybe god has a different criteria of evidence than unicorns?

That's probably why people aren't finding the evidence they ask for?
I think its context.

In a persons mind God can be real enough. When flushed with non cognitive reality all that goes away.
 

Jedster

Well-Known Member
The 1960's had an interesting peace movement with a lot of good will for others around the world. It sounds to me like a lot of people wanted to put behind them the violence and the hate of the past and fear. They wanted to embrace the other and reject tribalism. They emphasized difference and they made a difference, and they tried many, many different ways of encouraging an appreciation of being different and acceptance. Even down to the bold and strange clothing styles they influenced everything, just pouring in this positive and creative impulse. It was like an electrical zap to the heart of the world.

Did you see "The trial of the Chicago 7"(Netflix)?
A zap it was.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
So what is your best evidence (pay attention to that word -- it has meaning) that God actually exists?
You assume that a thought does not exist, and that a word does not exist. Tell this to someone who has a big fear.

Fears upset the whole human system, even digestion. People can become instant diabetic due to fear/panic attack; is such diabetic condition unreal?

Google gives us the word + meanings of God. So God exists, and these definitions affects even the real world in all different ways ... so God exists

I do not say that God exists as a human being in the sky, but that was not what you were asking. God does exist and impacts creation.

So I concluded that God does exist (I did not define God yet, though)
@stvdvRF
 
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Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
I don't have any real evidence for or against the existence of any type of god but perhaps the main one being the number and variety of religious beliefs - what they are, what they do, and what they believe. I can't find a decent explanation for the spectrum other than their human origins - all others not making much sense. And wipe the religious beliefs away what are we left with? Just a load of unknowns to deal with. So how hard is that? :eek:
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
One can "prove" anything by supposing such stuff. But that, of course -- given that I can also show that all sorts of things are not possible -- that such "proofs" are rubbish.

By which I am trying to suggest that arguments like "maybe god has a different criteria of evidence" are completely useless, because they are nothing but pure speculation.

The last part. That is utterly subjective that it is useless to you.

We are playing this in the end:
...
There is no general agreed upon definition of cognitive relativism. Here is how it has been described by a few major theorists:

  • “Reason is whatever the norms of the local culture believe it to be”. (Hilary Putnam, Realism and Reason: Philosophical Papers, Volume 3 (Cambridge, 1983), p. 235.)
  • “The choice between competing theories is arbitrary, since there is no such thing as objective truth.” (Karl Popper, The Open Society and its Enemies, Vol. II (London, 1963), p. 369f.)
  • “There is no unique truth, no unique objective reality” (Ernest Gellner, Relativism and the Social Sciences (Cambridge, 1985), p. 84.)
  • “There is no substantive overarching framework in which radically different and alternative schemes are commensurable” (Richard Bernstein, Beyond Objectivism and Relativism (Philadelphia, 1985), pp. 11-12.)
  • “There is nothing to be said about either truth or rationality apart from descriptions of the familiar procedures of justification which a given society—ours—uses in one area of enquiry” (Richard Rorty, Objectivity, Relativism and Truth: Philosophical Papers, Volume 1 (Cambridge, 1991), p. 23.)
...
Cognitive relativism consists of two claims:
(1) The truth-value of any statement is always relative to some particular standpoint;
(2) No standpoint is metaphysically privileged over all others.
...
Cognitive Relativism | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

So what is useless to you, can be profoundly meaningful to me. :)
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
What is your best evidence for the nonexistence of God?

Unnecessary suffering
Childhood leukaemia
Spontaneous abortions.
The mosquito.
...

So what is your best evidence (pay attention to that word -- it has meaning) that God actually exists?

Never seen any "evidence" that any god exists.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
What is your best evidence for the nonexistence of God?

Unnecessary suffering
Childhood leukaemia
Spontaneous abortions.
The mosquito.
...

So what is your best evidence (pay attention to that word -- it has meaning) that God actually exists?

Never seen any "evidence" that any god exists.

That assumes that God is good.
 
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