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Christian views on life, death, and the resurrection

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I would say that if Adam was a spirit from heaven put into a human body then Genesis would have said it instead of just saying that God formed man from dirt and breathed into his nostrils the breathe of life.
Also this passage would not make sense unless the life/spirit in us comes down from generation to generation.
Well, that's certainly a different interpretation from mine. In the Bible, God is referred to as the "Father of spirits." To me that implies that He is the Father of the spirit of each human being who comes to earth and that we each have a spirit created by Him.

LDS seems built on adding to the Bible. I guess that is why "revelation" is so important in the LDS. But when this revelation contradicts what the Bible teaches us then it is not revelation from God.
You need to understand the difference between "what the Bible teaches us," and "how we interpret the Bible." You see contradictions where I see none, and it is simply due to a difference in how we interpret scripture.
 

Scott C.

Just one guy
Just what the resurrection body is is yet to be seen. Sounds sort of a physical/spiritual body that is controlled by our spirit. But yes the soul and body reunite and the body gets transformed to an immortal and incorruptible body.

Interesting. We differ on the point of the beginnings of the spirit of man, but we seem to be on the same page on other points. How do you understand the permanence of the resurrection of Christ? Will he always be an incarnate (resurrected) representation of the Father/Trinity? Will people in heaven, who are resurrected, be with the resurrected Christ and will they see him forever in that physical form, as he appeared to many in the NT?
 
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Scott C.

Just one guy
I guess I have roughly similar views as a Christian protestant, with come variations that may not matter much, but the most important variation is probably the LDS idea that we humans existed in heaven before we came to earth. Definitely not a Biblical concept.

I see the doctrine of living with God as his spirit children prior to mortality to be one of the most significant doctrines that came with the Restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ in these latter-days. I see it as Biblical, although I realize it's not totally spelled out there. It is recognized historically as a belief from Biblical times and is alluded to in various Bible verses. I do believe this is a truth, an important soul satisfying truth, that brings better understanding to the purpose of life, which is an ancient truth and which was restored in our day. But I understand it's my belief in the Restoration that drives my feelings.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I try never to misrepresent the beliefs of other Christians, but neither do I consider myself not to be a Christian person despite disagreeing with most. I also think most Christians claiming to be biblical are far from it, and I include LDS, JW, Baptist, Pentecostals, Catholics and the whole lot. CS Lewis drowned in WWI and what came back was bad theology. Honestly if its down to biblical understanding then all is lost. In my opinion. Lost. Lost. Lost.

WW1 was a turning point in history.....biblically, and in every other way, according to historians. I believe that “the last days” of this present world began with that event (Matthew 24:2-14) and that the time of separation (wheat from weeds) had begun. The wheat needed to identify itself and completely separate from the entire field of weeds, sown by the devil. (Matthew 13:24-30) God foretold a cleansing and refining of his worshippers at this time. (Daniel 12:4; 9-10)

The truth was never lost......it was just not heard above the shouting.....denounced and often murdered for daring to speak up about the pagan doctrines that had crept in and taken "Christianity" completely away from its beginnings. And now, since the Reformation, many have lamented the pathetically divided state of the Christian Faith, but Jesus’ true disciples down through the centuries, always knew that the “cramped and narrow road” was going to be a challenge for them. (John 15:18-21)

The truth could never be lost, and never open to the interpretation of one person. There must be others who share our beliefs. (1 Corinthians 1:10) Following the ideas of a man is how Christendom became so divided.

It had been established that from small beginnings in the first century, the prophesy in Isaiah had to be fulfilled....

Isaiah 60:21-22...
"All your people will be godly; they will possess the land permanently.
I will plant them like a shoot;
they will be the product of my labor,
through whom I reveal my splendor.
22 The least of you will multiply into a thousand;
the smallest of you will become a large nation.
When the right time comes, I the Lord will quickly do this!” (NET)


In these times when the harvest is about to be carried out, there will be a large nation from small beginnings, just like it was in the first century. These will possess the land permanently....the ones Jesus spoke about when he said that the "meek shall inherit the Earth".

All who profess to be "Christians" or claiming Jesus as their "Lord", will be judged by the same criteria.....and it is quite strict according to Jesus' words concerning his judgment....

" Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven—only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. 22 On that day, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many powerful deeds in your name?’ 23 Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you. Go away from me, you lawbreakers!’" (NET)

Apparently "many" will be shocked at Jesus' rejection of their brand of "Christianity".......he says he "never knew" them, and calls them "Lawbreakers"....what makes a person a "Christian" in the eyes of our Lord and judge?.....whose laws are they breaking?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I see that Seventh Day Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses seem to share the idea that there is no "spirit person" that inhabits the physical body. I'm not aware of other Christian groups that share that belief, but I will wait and see who else responds. (I don't mean to imply that Seventh Day Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses are the same. I'm sure there are many differences. I just see a similarity on this point).

We have similar beginnings....it was a time of spiritual awakening....of cleansing and refining, as Daniel foretold.(Daniel 12:4; 9-10) We went in different directions on a few issues, but we hold similar beliefs.

Three doctrines of vital importance were challenged first....the nature of God and his relationship with his son. (trinity) Immortality of the human soul, and hellfire. All these are God dishonoring doctrines when you examine them in the light of other scripture....but held in common with Christendom's many denominations.
 

Pipiripi

End Times Prophecy.
I see that Seventh Day Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses seem to share the idea that there is no "spirit person" that inhabits the physical body. I'm not aware of other Christian groups that share that belief, but I will wait and see who else responds. (I don't mean to imply that Seventh Day Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses are the same. I'm sure there are many differences. I just see a similarity on this point).
No, they are not the same, otherwise they are one.
 

Pipiripi

End Times Prophecy.
Interesting that you'd use the word "trapped" to refer to the breath of life that God breathes into us. If we do not have a spirit, by what means do we continue to live and breathe? Are we solely physical beings? Do you not believe we have a spiritual component?
The thing in us that makes us breath we cannot see. This thing is called the breath of life of God. It is just like the wind that we feel but not see. It is from God. Read Ezekiel 37:1-14 again. Study were the thing that make us a living person come and go. It is not a being like angels or other spirits.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Well, that's certainly a different interpretation from mine. In the Bible, God is referred to as the "Father of spirits." To me that implies that He is the Father of the spirit of each human being who comes to earth and that we each have a spirit created by Him.

Humans have a spirit and God is the Father of the spirit in the sense that it is God breathed. God is the the creator or matter and our human bodies, but God, a spirit, is not the Father of matter and our physical form.
There is no need for LDS additions to clear up uncertain meanings in the Bible when the meaning is not unclear.

You need to understand the difference between "what the Bible teaches us," and "how we interpret the Bible." You see contradictions where I see none, and it is simply due to a difference in how we interpret scripture.

You need to interpret the Bible to match your scriptures. The Bible has no need of reinterpretation that changes the message and meaning.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Interesting. We differ on the point of the beginnings of the spirit of man, but we seem to be on the same page on other points. How do you understand the permanence of the resurrection of Christ? Will he always be an incarnate (resurrected) representation of the Father/Trinity? Will people in heaven, who are resurrected, be with the resurrected Christ and will they see him forever in that physical form, as he appeared to many in the NT?

I believe Jesus is a man in a glorified body now and also fills all things in the Holy Spirit. He has 2 natures and fulfils them both now fully.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Humans have a spirit and God is the Father of the spirit in the sense that it is God breathed. God is the the creator or matter and our human bodies, but God, a spirit, is not the Father of matter and our physical form.
I never said He was the Father of matter or of our physical form, so please don't put words into my mouth. God created everything in our universe. I believe He created our spirits, too. Not asking you to agree.

There is no need for LDS additions to clear up uncertain meanings in the Bible when the meaning is not unclear.
The fact that there are literally thousands of different Christian denominations in the world today makes it pretty clear that the Bible can and has be interpreted in many different ways, not just on this issue but on many others.

You need to interpret the Bible to match your scriptures. The Bible has no need of reinterpretation that changes the message and meaning.
And where do all of the many other interpretations come from? Plenty of non-LDS people have interpretations that are different from yours and they certainly don't rely on LDS scriptures for their understanding.

There's no need to start making accusations and criticisms simply over a difference in belief.
 
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Brian2

Veteran Member
The thing in us that makes us breath we cannot see. This thing is called the breath of life of God. It is just like the wind that we feel but not see. It is from God. Read Ezekiel 37:1-14 again. Study were the thing that make us a living person come and go. It is not a being like angels or other spirits.

God breathed into Adam and he became a living being/soul. The living soul is the combination of spirit and physical. The soul is the whole person. A dead body is a dead soul but the body is not a soul.
The breathe of life/spirit that God breathed into Adam is more than a force and is what gives us consciousness and what wills and knows our mind and is witnessed to by the Holy Spirit and gives us moral conscience and no doubt more.
When our body dies this spirit does not die and is now the totality of what the living part of the man is. It is our soul. (see Matthew 10:28)
Our body is called the earthly tent we live in. (see 2 Cor 5:1) but we are humans and not spirits and so we are not complete, we are naked without our body and this is why we are resurrected.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
The thing in us that makes us breath we cannot see. This thing is called the breath of life of God. It is just like the wind that we feel but not see. It is from God. Read Ezekiel 37:1-14 again. Study were the thing that make us a living person come and go. It is not a being like angels or other spirits.
The Greek word, "pneuma" is found numerous places in the Bible. Sometimes it is translated as "breath," sometimes as "spirit" and sometimes as "life." This, I believe, is created by God.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
I see the doctrine of living with God as his spirit children prior to mortality to be one of the most significant doctrines that came with the Restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ in these latter-days. I see it as Biblical, although I realize it's not totally spelled out there. It is recognized historically as a belief from Biblical times and is alluded to in various Bible verses. I do believe this is a truth, an important soul satisfying truth, that brings better understanding to the purpose of life, which is an ancient truth and which was restored in our day. But I understand it's my belief in the Restoration that drives my feelings.

I don't know if I have heard of the preexistence of the spirit of man as an early church teaching. Where is that found?
The purpose of life,,,,,,,,,,,hmmm. Does there have to be a purpose apart from God created us as humans and want us to know the truth about Him and to actually know Him and be with Him forever.
Certainly the gaining of a physical body nowhere in the Bible, just as the idea that the Father has a human body is nowhere in the Bible.
But yes, you do believe in the Restoration and the Mormon scriptures (and I have my belief in the Bible) and these things drive our feelings and biases.
You certainly have a need to interpret the Bible to fit Mormon scriptures.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
I never said He was the Father of matter or of our physical form, so please don'put words into my mouth. God created everything in our universe. I believe He created our spirits, too. Not asking you to agree.

I said it the way I said it to show the reason that God being the Father of spirits does not have to mean that we preexisted in heaven and came to earth from there.

The fact that there are literally thousands of different Christian denominations in the world today makes it pretty clear that the Bible can and has be interpreted in many different ways, not just on this issue but on many others.

True, Satan attacks the truth in many different ways and from many different angles. Then Satan comes along with more revelations and a different way to interpret the Bible, and says he is cleaning up the mess (which he made in the first place). That no doubt sounds harsh to you but it is my honest answer.

And where do all of the many other interpretations come from? Plenty of non-LDS people have interpretations that are different from yours and they certainly don't rely on LDS scriptures for their understanding.

It's a big question. Part of the answer is what I said above, the divide and conquer strategy of Satan even if it is through men with good intentions and possibly big egos.
But I certainly don't see myself as having any special cornering of the truth.

There's no need to start making accusations and criticisms simply over a difference in belief.

I did not think I was accusing you of anything, but I am stating my opinion knowing that you are LDS and so part of my answer reflects my opinion of the LDS church.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I said it the way I said it to show the reason that God being the Father of spirits does not have to mean that we preexisted in heaven and came to earth from there.
No, it doesn't "have to mean" that, but neither does it preclude that possibility. You seem to be implying that it does.

True, Satan attacks the truth in many different ways and from many different angles. Then Satan comes along with more revelations and a different way to interpret the Bible, and says he is cleaning up the mess (which he made in the first place). That no doubt sounds harsh to you but it is my honest answer.
Well, I appreciate your honesty. I, too, believe Satan has misled people over the ages, and that many truths that were originally taught by Christ and His Apostles were lost during Christianity's first few centuries.

It's a big question. Part of the answer is what I said above, the divide and conquer strategy of Satan even if it is through men with good intentions and possibly big egos.
But I certainly don't see myself as having any special cornering of the truth.
None of us has a corner on the truth. I'm glad that you recognize that.

I did not think I was accusing you of anything, but I am stating my opinion knowing that you are LDS and so part of my answer reflects my opinion of the LDS church.
It's just your tone. It's very judgmental. Personally, I think we can have differences of opinion without having to let our emotions get in the way of trying to understand one another's positions. If that doesn't work for you, I understand.
 

Pipiripi

End Times Prophecy.
The Greek word, "pneuma" is found numerous places in the Bible. Sometimes it is translated as "breath," sometimes as "spirit" and sometimes as "life." This, I believe, is created by God.
Okay so good also spoke with rain, wind, flames waters and everything they obey Him. Are you saying that those things are also Spirit or beings that speak normally? Even a donkey has spoken are you saying that is a being trapped in it? If you don't understand yet I will show you an other verse. Please believe God.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Okay so good also spoke with rain, wind, flames waters and everything they obey Him. Are you saying that those things are also Spirit or beings that speak normally? Even a donkey has spoken are you saying that is a being trapped in it? If you don't understand yet I will show you an other verse.
I don't even understand your questions, Pipiripi, but I do sense a little bit of sarcasm in them.

Please believe God.
You may rest assured that I absolutely do. I'm just not convinced that I need you as an interpreter.
 
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Pipiripi

End Times Prophecy.
I don't even understand your questions, Pipiripi, but I do sense a little bit of sarcasm in them.

You may rest assured that I absolutely do. I'm just not convinced that I need you as an interpreter.
I'm not an interpreter. Because the Bible interprets itself. If God says the breath of life is His, it doesn't matter what name people give it. It is something that belong to God. God has given it to us only for breathing in this world, the angels doesn't need our air to live God angels never dies. The demons well but they also doesn't need our air to live. One day we don't need the air to stay alive. We be like the angels in heaven. So read Ezekiel 37:1-14
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I'm not an interpreter. Because the Bible interprets itself.
The Bible does NOT interpret itself. We human beings interpret it; you interpret it one way and I interpret it another way. If you don't want to believe you have a spirit of your own that was given to you by God, that's fine with me. That's between you and God, just as what I believe is between me and God.
 

Scott C.

Just one guy
I'm not an interpreter. Because the Bible interprets itself.

You're not compromising your position or conviction by acknowledging that you interpret the Bible. Suppose you say to me "I interpret the Bible strictly and there is no other correct interpretation. I know what God means and your interpretation, Scott, is incorrect." Now I will disagree with you, but at least what you said makes sense. But when you say "I do not interpret the scripture. Everyone else does", that just makes no sense. You are no different than any other Christian who sincerely studies the Bible and wants to correctly understand what God means. We call that interpretation.
 
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