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One or Two?

chinu

chinu
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

No. this verse doesn't speak of forgiveness without judgement and punishment for evil deeds. It says that.. whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Of course, the return of good is good, and evil is evil. But, I think here you need to understand the outcome of both good and evil deeds. Outcome of evil deeds is like a prison made of steel, and outcome of good deeds is like a prison made of gold. But, in both the cases prison is prison (Worldly- Attachments). Prison can NEVER be an eternal life.

What is prison ? Prison is "World" (Including both happiness and sufferings) Eternal life is.. merge back in God/Heaven.

Hence, this verse does NOT provide solution to sufferings of this world. Rather just provide solution to perish/prison. And that solution is eternal life.

Punishment for evil still stand where it is.
 
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Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I have not heard of that net Zero energy idea. I guess science has many ideas I have never heard of.
You may need to wait longer for an answer, which of course you will never get unless you live another 100 or 200 years. I think the Goddidit answer is very satisfactory.
Science itself has to posit illogical and magical answers at this end search for answers and science will never stop looking even if the most reasonable answer is Goddidit. And many people will never stop trusting that science will one day find an answer even if the answer can never be verified.
No, I will not live for 100 or 200 years. I know that I am not going to get the answer to my last unanswered question. But it is OK. I will go with many unfulfilled desires, I never visited Yosemite National Park in US, the only difference is that I do not cling to them knowing that those were / are not possible. That is known as entitlement, whereas the unenlightened are bothered by such desires.
Yeah, many people are satisfied with "Goddidit" answer. Good, you have your views about science. Don't teach your children your kind of views. Do not make them unfit for the future world.
Did not I give you the link for the Wiki article? Here is it: Zero-energy universe - Wikipedia
Would that work even if you are an atheist Hindu like Aupmanyav?
No, nothing theistic or Abrahamic works for Aupmanyav, Chinu knows it.
Someone like Modi may have other ideas however, if he could, which seems unlikely.
Modi is a wise person (and he himself is from a lower caste). He is not from a brahmin or a kshatriya (warriors) caste. He used to sell tea to passengers in the rail trains which passed through the station in his city (most probably four in a day, 2 up and two down). The organization which molded him from childhood is against any division by caste.

595b8c1d295eb.jpg

Tea stall of which Mr. Modi's father was concessionair at Vadnagar railway station.
(It is on railway land and his father must have been paying for its lease)
Tea stall of Narendra Modi's father - Google Search
It sounds like absolute truth has a not very important place in Hinduism. Would that be a fair statement?
Will depend on the sect. I am an independent. In my view, untruth has absolutely no place at all.
Eternal life is.. merge back in God/Heaven.
Perhaps you know, Chinu, in 'Advaita' view, there is no separation and no merging back. We all (humans, animals, vegetation and inanimate substances, without any exception, that is the meaning of 'advaita' - non-duality) were the stuff of universe for all 13.78 billion years, we are the stuff of the universe today and we will be the stuff of universe for all times to come.
 
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Brian2

Veteran Member
No. this verse doesn't speak of forgiveness without judgement and punishment for evil deeds. It says that.. whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Of course, the return of good is good, and evil is evil. But, I think here you need to understand the outcome of both good and evil deeds. Outcome of evil deeds is like a prison made of steel, and outcome of good deeds is like a prison made of gold. But, in both the cases prison is prison (Worldly- Attachments). Prison can NEVER be an eternal life.

What is prison ? Prison is "World" (Including both happiness and sufferings) Eternal life is.. merge back in God/Heaven.

Hence, this verse does NOT provide solution to sufferings of this world. Rather just provide solution to perish/prison. And that solution is eternal life.

Punishment for evil still stand where it is.

Nevertheless the teaching of Christianity is that we can be forgiven through faith in Jesus and the Bible tells us that in many places, both in the Old and New Testament.
Acts 10:43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”
This is not through good works.
God can forgive us our sins surely.
Is God governed by a law, the law of Karma?
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Yeah, many people are satisfied with "Goddidit" answer. Good, you have your views about science. Don't teach your children your kind of views. Do not make them unfit for the future world.

From what I see of science it shows us more of the wonders of what God has created and is showing us that what the Bible teaches about creation is true.

Will depend on the sect. I am an independent. In my view, untruth has absolutely no place at all.Perhaps you know, Chinu, in 'Advaita' view, there is no separation and no merging back. We all (humans, animals, vegetation and inanimate substances, without any exception, that is the meaning of 'advaita' - non-duality) were the stuff of universe for all 13.78 billion years, we are the stuff of the universe today and we will be the stuff of universe for all times to come.

We are the stuff of the universe physically at least. In Christianity there is a line between what is created and the creator,,,,,,,,,,,what is given life and the life giver.
If science proposes that negative and positive energy balance and no doubt could cancel each other out maybe it is just showing how God could have created the universe from nothing.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Advaita does not subscribe to lines (or you need to show evidence for it).

God has told us that He and His creation are not the same and that He has created the universe. There is certainly plenty of evidence that the Bible is true and that God has shown us in it, things that would happen and which did happen.
 

chinu

chinu
Nevertheless the teaching of Christianity is that we can be forgiven through faith in Jesus and the Bible tells us that in many places, both in the Old and New Testament.
Acts 10:43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”
This is not through good works.
Friend, both Good & Evil works/deeds are barrier to eternal life. Both creates ties. Good works are NOT required to attain eternity, Its a wrong perception. But, good works are recommended so that one could concentrate on devotion without any interruption, whereas the result of evil deeds cause sufferings which further cause interruptions to devotion.

God can forgive us our sins surely
I don't think there's any such provision. The only provision I am aware of is that divine people like Jesus, Buddha etc are capable of doing so, BUT, very strictly in that case they have to take the burden of sins on themselves.

Is God governed by a law, the law of Karma?
No.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Assuming there is a god, are we ultimately identical with that god, or are we ultimately separate from that god?
If we are identical......God is always talking to His Echo

that would be soooooooooo boring

so we are separate
and we are less
so our responses to reality are unique

and THAT makes us entertaining
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
God has told us that He and His creation are not the same and that He has created the universe. There is certainly plenty of evidence that the Bible is true and that God has shown us in it, things that would happen and which did happen.
The Kesamutti Sutta states (Pali expression in parentheses): Kesamutti Sutta - Wikipedia
  • Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing (anussava),
  • nor upon tradition (paramparā),
  • nor upon rumor (itikirā),
  • nor upon what is in a scripture (piṭaka-sampadāna)
  • nor upon surmise (takka-hetu),
  • nor upon an axiom (naya-hetu),
  • nor upon specious reasoning (ākāra-parivitakka),
  • nor upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over (diṭṭhi-nijjhān-akkh-antiyā),
  • nor upon another's seeming ability (bhabba-rūpatāya),
  • nor upon the consideration, The monk is our teacher (samaṇo no garū)
Kesamutti: False beliefs hold one by his/her hair (Kesa - hair, Mutti - release). If someone wantsw release, he /she should pay attention to what Buddha said.
 

chinu

chinu
Buddha will tell you the way how the effects of evil deeds can be softened. Otherwise, you sow, you reap.
Bodh bhikshus go for bikshas. This lessens ego. lessens ego = lessen evil deeds. Friend, am aware of that.

But, this is NOT = NOT paying back.

Rather, this is like.. voluntarily paying back BEFORE one is forced to pay back, Yes this can be also called as softened.
 
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