I do not see the that the Bible is teaching what you think it says with those passages.
Regards Tony
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Jesus is Coming
- Thread starter Fool
- Start date
I do not see the that the Bible is teaching what you think it says with those passages.
Regards Tony
No need to worry about that, it will be very clear.
"Then if any man tells you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or, 'There,' don't believe it. For there will arise false christs, and false prophets, and they will show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the chosen ones. "Behold, I have told you beforehand. If therefore they tell you, 'Behold, he is in the wilderness,' don't go out; 'Behold, he is in the inner chambers,' don't believe it. For as the lightning comes forth from the east, and is seen even to the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Matt. 24:23-27
In generally I think people should read the Bible, so that they would learn to know who Jesus is.
Eyes to See
Well-Known Member
These are good scriptures.
Jesus returned to heaven, so he is no longer in the world of mankind. He is no longer a human. He is a powerful and immortal spirit person in divine form at Jehovah's right hand in heaven.
Yes, Jesus' kingdom is not of this world. It is a heavenly one. Jesus told that to Pilate when he was on trial to let Pilate know he was no threat to him. He knew that he would not begin to rule as king for a long time. Psalm 110:1 says that he would sit at God's right hand until Jehovah has placed his enemies as a stool for his feet.
Jesus' kingdom government is heavenly. It is not of earthly origin. And thus no human system or way of governance is part of God's kingdom. It will come just as Jesus told us to pray, "thy kingdom come thy will be done on the earth as it is in the heaven." When that time arrives his kingdom government will put an end to all human rule and establish a government of peace over all humankind
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The Day of God is here, and everyone will know eventually.
“Warn and acquaint the people, O Servant, with the things We have sent down unto Thee, and let the fear of no one dismay Thee, and be Thou not of them that waver. The day is approaching when God will have exalted His Cause and magnified His testimony in the eyes of all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 248
All you have to do is read on this forum for a few minutes in order to realize that there is NO WAY that everyone could ever possibly know all at once, the way Christians believe it will happen. It is literally impossible that everyone in the world would SEE Jesus or or that everyone in the world would recognize Jesus as Jesus if He came barrelling down from the clouds in the sky and landed on earth.
I expect the next comment will me that nothing is impossible for God. That might be true, but there is still the problem of logistics. How could everyone on earth, all 7.8 billion people SEE JESUS? And as far as believing it is Jesus, God would have to take over people's minds and force them to believe it was Jesus. God would have to interfere with their free will choice to believe or not believe and that has never been God's modus operandi.
But for the sake of argument let's say that everyone would not know about Jesus right away, but rather that would happen over time. Christians still have a problem on their hands because Jesus said that his work was finished here and He was no more on the world. (John 14:19, John 17:4, John 17:11, John 19:30)
The only way around those verses would be to say the Bible is wrong, in which case there would be no reason to believe anything else in the Bible is right.
ecco
Veteran Member
So, all the people that God horribly drowned will all be brought back to life. And all the pregnant women that He horribly drowned will have their dead fetuses put back into their wombs.
Will He bring back all the lambs and kittens that He horribly drowned?
ecco
Veteran Member
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The question remains, how would Jesus come back and take the disciples with Him? The verse does not say that Jesus would come back in the same body, the glorified body that Christians believe that Jesus has in heaven.
Nowhere in the NT did Jesus say He would come back in the same body, as Christians believe He will. That means that the only way Jesus could come back to earth and "do anything" would be to return in the body of another man who has the same Christ Spirit.
Moreover, John 14:1-3 says that Jesus is coming to get them and take them back to heaven; it does not say that Jesus is coming back to build a Kingdom of God on earth, as Christians believe.
John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Jesus never planned to come back and build the Kingdom of God on earth. Not once in the NT do we have Jesus saying that is what He planned to do. God has delegated that task to humans and that is why Jesus asked us to pray that the Kingdom would come on earth.
Matthew 6:9-10 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Mitty
Active Member
And was Noah a happy chappy when most of his family were drowned in that local flood, including his grandparents (Gen 5:27) and his widowed mother (Gen 5:31) and his aunts & uncles & cousins (Gen 5:26) and his brothers & sisters (Gen 5:30) and his other children & grandchildren born before and after Mrs Noah gave birth to triplets at aged 500 "years" old (Gen 5:32)?
The Anointed
Well-Known Member
Triplets???? Ham was born when Noah was 500, Shem, the older brother of Japheth, was born when Noah was 502, and you believe they were triplets: Hmmm.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The Bible does not say it will be very clear.
The Bible says For as the lightning comes forth from the east, and is seen even to the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
On the other thread about the Son of man coming in the clouds, I already explained to you how that lightning came forth from the east, and was seen even to the west, thus fulfilling the prophecy above.
18. Lightning from the East
I now began an earnest search for clues that would tell me something about the place in which the Messiah would appear. Two interesting things came to light. For the first coming, Daniel had given the time and Micah had given the place. Daniel had prophesied exactly when the Messiah would appear the first time and when He would be slain. Micah had said of the place: “But thou, Bethlehem … out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel.”(Micah 5:2)
Daniel had also prophesied with even greater exactness the time of the second coming of the Messiah in 1844 (see p. 20). Therefore, I turned to Micah for a possible clue as to the place of His second appearance. I was richly rewarded. In Micah 7:7 and 12 I found:
“I will wait for the God of my salvation … In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria …” (Micah 7:7, 12)
The Assyrian Empire at one time covered the entire area in which both Daniel and Micah lived out their lives. Therefore, I chose to study those parts of the Empire, in which these two prophets traditionally lived and taught. To my surprise, I found that there were many other clues to follow as well. Gradually one led to another, until a definite picture began to emerge, and I knew at least in which direction to turn my gaze.
The book of Ezekiel spoke of a great Figure who would come in those days. He said: “And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east.” (Ezekiel 43:2)
This was clearly a reference to the second coming of Christ and not the first, for Jesus did not come from the way of the East, He came from north and west of Jerusalem. Isaiah in like manner spoke of the wondrous Figure who would come from the East. Isaiah said that it was God Himself Who had “… raised up the righteous man from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings.” (Isaiah 41:2) Even Christ Himself pointed to the direction from which He would appear in the day of His second coming. Speaking of that day, He said: “For as the lightning cometh out of the East … so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”(Matthew 24:27)
The Jewish Oracles, the Sibylline books, prophesied that the ‘King Messiah’ of the time of the end would come ‘from the sunrise’.(The Messianic Idea in Israel, J. G. Klausner, 1956, p. 376). Daniel had written his words of millennial prophecy while in the East. In fact, he was in Elam, a part of ancient Persia, when he foretold with such startling accuracy the exact time of both the first and the second comings of Christ. It was in the capital city of Persia, Shúshán, (Ancient Susa, Khúzistán, south-west Írán) that Daniel had the prophetic vision that revealed the year 1844 as the time for the return of the Messiah. Daniel not only gave the time 1844, but he also directed attention to the place, saying that ‘Elam’ (Persia) would be given as a place of ‘vision’ in the latter days (Daniel 8:2).The Prophet Jeremiah speaks of things that ‘shall come to pass in the latter days’ and in the verse preceding this, he says: “And I will set my throne in Elam (Persia) … saith the Lord.”(Jeremiah 49:38). I came across a prophecy well known among the Arabs. Speaking of the time of the end, it said:“When the promised One appears, the ‘upholders of His faith shall be the people of Persia.’”(The Dawn-breakers, Nabíl, p. 49). All these prophecies clearly showed that the Messiah would come from the East, and they put a strong emphasis on the territory of Persia. It was something definite to go on. The circle was narrowing.
William Sears, Thief in the Night, pp. 73-75
Daniel 8:2 And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a vision, and I was by the river of Ulai.
Isaiah 41:2 Who raised up the righteous man from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings? he gave them as the dust to his sword, and as driven stubble to his bow.
Jeremiah 49:38 And I will set my throne in Elam, and will destroy from thence the king and the princes, saith the Lord.
It appears as if the Throne was set in Elam, not in Jerusalem, as many Christians believe.
Mitty
Active Member
But why didn't he return in the lifetimes of his contemporaries as they expected and to overthrow the Roman Empire as prophesied in Revelation, and why he was executed by the Romans for sedition and mocked as the false "King of the Jews"?
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Mitty
Active Member
Hmmm. Have you ever actually read that story? If so, where does the bible say that Shem was born two years after Ham when Mrs Noah was 502 "years" old and born before Japheth? Or don't you believe what the bible actually says, and just made that up?
Genesis 5:32 King James Version
32 And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
Either way, the bible says that the flood was only 15 cubits high, and that the only people who drowned were all members of Noah's family including Noah's other children and grandchildren born before and after Mrs Noah gave birth to triplets at aged 500 "years" old (Gen 5:26-32). Or so the story goes.
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Everyone interprets the Bible to accommodate what they already believe, and what they want to believe, so they can make the Bible say whatever they want it to say so they can believe whatever they want to believe.
I have been saying this for years, as it is a logical point, but still nobody seems to understand, because belief is not a logical thing, it is an emotional thing. Christians believe whatever they want to believe, not what the evidence indicates is the Truth.
That is why Christians blow off the voluminous evidence that indicates that Baha'u'llah was who He claimed to be. It is not what they want to believe.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Which is literally impossible.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I fully agree with you up to this point....
So do you believe that Jesus will be ruling from heaven?
How will his kingdom government put an end to all human rule and establish a government of peace over all humankind?
Who is going to run this government?
How do you envision that happening and what scriptures do you have that backs up your beliefs?
The Anointed
Well-Known Member
Yes I have actually read the story of Noah and the flood, but apparently you have not.
Noah began his family when he was 500 years old, RSV, Genesis 11: 12; Two years after the flood when Shem was 100 years (And Noah was 602) he had a son, ;Arpachshad.' The flood finished when Noah was 600, revealing that Shem was born when Noah was 502.
The RSV, the Good news Bible Catholic Study Edition, the Living Bible, the Jerusalem bible, Fireside-The New American Bible, and others all have Shem as being the elder brother to Japheth, in Genesis 10: 21; Even the Hebrew bible states; כא וּלְשֵׁם יֻלַּד, גַּם-הוּא: אֲבִי, כָּל-בְּנֵי-עֵבֶר--אֲחִי, יֶפֶת הַגָּדוֹל. 21 And unto Shem, the father of all the children of Eber, the elder brother of Japheth, to him also were children born.
If Noah began his family when he was 500 and Shem, the older brother of Japheth was born when Noah was 502, in what Years was Ham born?
Methusulah died when Noah was 600. Just before the flood. Noah's Father 'Lamech' died 595 years after he had sired Noah, 5 years before the flood.
No other children are recorded to have been sired by Noah, apart from his three sons, Ham. Shem, and Japheth.
But you are so mixed up, I am only wasting my time revealing to you that which is there before your eyes as recorded in the Holy Scriptures.
Mitty
Active Member
So why does Gen 5:32 say that Noah's surviving children were all born when Noah was 500 years old? And why does Gen 11:12 say that Shem wasn't born until Noah was 502 "years" old and not 500 "years" old (Gen 5:32)? And if so, was Ham and/or Japheth born when Noah was 500 "years" old?
Or are you just pointing out some of the numerous biblical contradictions and inconsistencies and scientific untruths?
In other words the bible says that Noah's grandfather was drowned in a flood which was only 15 cubits high, along with Noah's widowed mother, and his aunts & uncles & cousins & brothers & sisters & his other children & grandchildren (Gen 5:26-32). Which is why the biblical writers presumably changed the age of Methusael's death from 970 "years" old to 969 "years" old (Gen 5:27).
So what evidence do you have that Mr & Mrs Noah only had sex once in their lifetimes to celebrate their 500th birthday.
Or is that just another imaginative fantasy story, given that the Gen 5 "years" are obviously more easily observed lunar cycles of ~29 days and not solar cycles of 365 days. Thus Adam and his genetically identical partner also named Adam first became pregnant at aged ~11 years old and not a silly 130 "years" old (Gen 5:1-3) and Methusael was drowned at aged ~80 years old and not a ridiculous 969 "years" old, and Mrs Noah gave birth to triplets at aged ~40 years old and not an absurd 500 "years" old
That's your choice if you don't believe what the bible actually says and that it is so mixed up.
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In the past 6,000+ years, Jesus could have appeared at any time.
Because of what Daniel wrote the first-century people were in expectation of Messiah coming - Luke 3:15.
So, the time was right for Jesus to be born. Born but to come again in the future as mentioned at Luke 19:11-15, Not as late.
The further passing of time has allowed for us to be born and think who we would like as Sovereign over us.
1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 gives us a clue has to how one would know it's him (Jesus)
When the powers that be are saying, " Peace and Security..." that is the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14,9.
This is coupled with the fulfillment of Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8 that the good news of God's kingdom (Daniel 2:44 ) is declared world wide as it is now being done.
Huh? The people who drowned in the Flood was by divine execution.
At Armageddon the people who are destroyed are by divine execution for the executional words from Jesus' mouth will destroy the wicked - Isaiah 11:3-4.
There is No forgiveness for the unforgivable sin of Matthew 12:32.
Just as in Noah's day people are warned to ' repent ' if they do Not want to ' perish ' ( be destroyed ) - 2 Peter 3:9
Remember: Jesus' ransom covers MANY and Not all as per Matthew 20:28.
We can choose to be part of the MANY ( the great crowd of people as per Revelation 7:9,14)