stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Knowing Salix virtual a little, I think it might be vegetables.Noodles??? Beef or chicken...?
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No Body, No Mind
- Thread starter SalixIncendium
- Start date
Not my favorite.....a bit disappointing actually....
Secret Chief
nirvana is samsara
The physical remains.
Nothing. Not even the bliss of wet noodle on bare skin.
I can't see anything (and I mean anything apart from the molecules, etc.) surviving after death, even if we can conjure up images in our heads without eyes - since I seem to be able to do for for many in my past (as most likely can) - but this is still just the brain doing this, and I have no expectations for anything surviving once the brain is dead. No comments about this already being true.
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Secret Chief
nirvana is samsara
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Took me some time to develop the taste for it, and become a bit creative with the veggies, but I appreciate them much more nowNot my favorite.....a bit disappointing actually....
Mushrooms give a great taste, and adding some garlic or vinegar makes a big difference. Tomatoes with some sweet/garlic/ginger is great too
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
The picture looks already "yummy", and all ingredients visible and easily available, I will give it a try.This vegetable broth isn't bad, and it's readily available.
I believe our consciousness experience ends once our bodily avatar in The Simulation "dies" - i.e. ceases being alive. And that once this happens we stop being aware. Of anything.
But I believe the same consciousness resumes, once it is embodied into a new avatar, within The Simulation
I believe there is no continuity between incarnations, that there is a break in the conscious experience between each incarnation - that any current incarnated consciousness has no means of remembering anything from its previous incarnations, even though in the past it did experience them
Basically, I see death as being a break between different episodes of one's conscious experience - that we have one consciousness but that it's lived out in different periods
Nothing - there would be no inputs (e.g. the senses) or any mental life (no brain, hence no mind) - just pure awareness. But there would be nothing to be aware of. So basically, one would become vegetative. The term "limbo" comes to mind. The lights are on, but nobody's home.
By experience being inputted into one's consciousness by other means, i.e. not via sense data: to produce certain kinds of experience
How can we be sure that what we experience as vision is from our eyes? That what we experience as sound is from the ears? How can be sure we even have eyes, or ears?
I don't think we can be sure. I don't think our experience of the (simulated) world is derived from sense data, which is caused by physical things. I don't believe the universe truly is physical, therefore I believe its apparent physicality to be an illusion
When we see things in a dream we experience them visually even though that visual experience does not involve any images being absorbed by your retina and going down your optic nerve, etc.
Think of Plato's allegory of the cave?
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PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
God.
I found the videos by Peter Fenwick to be particularly interesting - he speaks of people
having mental abilities when their brains are clinically dead - flat line on the EEG.
Two things. First of all, no, science does not tells us this. Consciousness is considered "The Hard Problem of Consciousness", in which science does not make any sort of scientific proclamation about it. It does not conclude, nor teach scientifically that consciousness is reduced to brain function alone. They really don't know, though plenty speculate their pet ideas. At this stage, they are personal hypothesis, but not really confirmed with hard data, therefore "science" is not telling us what science has confirmed.
Secondly, and more importantly, why is it you cite "science tells us", when it's something that appears to fit your theology, yet you reject it when it challenges it, such as the entire Theory of Evolution, of which we actually do have hard evidence?
If you're going to dismiss science because it disagrees with your reading of the Bible, then at least try to be consistent and ignore it with the same level of distrust at all times. You can't cite it as trustworthy when it makes sense with how you believe, and then cast doubts upon it when it challenges how you believe. It is disingenuous to cite it to support your beliefs, when you reject it when it doesn't.
PureX
Veteran Member
First, we need to be more precise. When the body ceases to function, so does the BRAIN. But the brain is not the MIND. The mind is the metaphysical phenomenon that the brain generates, and we are not entirely certain what all this entails.
Materialists are quite certain that the "mind" is a kind of experientially generated fiction. That it does not "really exist". Such that when the brain stops generating this experiential fiction, the question of it existing is moot. And this may be so. But it may also not be so.
The flaw in this assumption is in considering the mind a "fiction", rather than a metaphysical REFLECTION of physical reality, within physical reality. Kind of like a shadow. It's not a "fiction" in that it is a real thing existing in the real world even though it exists as a caused response to other physical phenomena. The shadow of a tree is not a tree. But nor is it a "fiction". So that even when the falls and rots away, and that specific shadow ceases, the 'shadow world' in which it had been manifest, remains. And the same is true of the mind. Our specific configuration of it may cease when our brain ceases to function, but the reality of it while we live, and the reality of the meta-physicality in which it occurs is REAL. It exists. And it remains extant even after our specific participation in it has ceased.
As we all should have learned from The Princess Bride, there is a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. A lot of people make a big deal out of experiences that happen to them when they're mostly dead.
All evidence indicates that our brain causes our consciousness. This should be fairly obvious to anyone who's gone unconscious after a hard hit to the head. So it makes sense that when our brain dies, our consciousness will die with it. If there is some other kind of consciousness that happens after we're all the way dead, we have no evidence for it.
Secret Chief
nirvana is samsara
I'm guessing that's not a good thing.For people like you, we make you listen to @Sunstone's singing.
If the brain generates the mind, how can the mind continue on after the death of the brain?
PureX
Veteran Member
Collectively, for one. When the tree dies the tree's shadow is no more. And yet the 'shadow-world' in which it existed still exists, and still contains many other similar and different shadows. And those shadows, like the tree's, are all as "real" as the tree, itself.
The mind is not a reflection of the brain. It's a reflection of the world that the brain experienced. A world that many other brains are also experiencing. So when one specific brain ceases to reflect that experience of the world, many others are still doing so. and the 'reflected reality' they generate remains extant. Just as extant as the world that generates it.
Samantha Rinne
Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
I'm surprised you're not warned for Proselytizing. This is clearly meant to try to sway us emotionally, starting with the weasel phrase "I think we can all agree." I don't think anyone can agree with anything , starting with your title premise "No Body, No Mind."
God. I'm waiting for the wet noodle treatment. Well? None is forthcoming. It must be that my God is protecting me from having goofy people whack me with a pool noodle.
Let's return to your premise. You assume the Mind = Brain, but even a computer makes a distinction between Hard Drive (the basic storage of ideas) and CPU (the mind). In order for something we humans built to work, requires a system separate from storage, yet you give special pleading that humans are somehow different. Not at all! Our bodies are built specifically not to last, they are built to fail within 80 years, 100 if they are lucky. In other words, your basic premise assumes that since a brain is part of the Body, that the Mind must also be part of the Body. But Mind and Body are not necessarily joined. You're gonna have to prove that one. This isn't even to do with religion/spirituality this is philosophy, on the Mind/Body Problem. Before secular Mind/Body unity, there were an awful lot of other ideas, don't make the mistake of thinking that because it came near the end that it automatically disproved them.
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
It all depends on where the I is that is interpreting the visual signal.
Existence knew enough to give creatures eyes. It would have to know enough to give the spirit eyes as well. That would mean that this reality is not the base reality but a mere reflection of base reality. So even where in space you are at there is a deeper at. At death we would fall into that world on a one way street.
The brain serves as a veil from the underlying reality. Remove the veil and then see reality as it actually is with the inner eyes.
Existence knew enough to give creatures eyes. It would have to know enough to give the spirit eyes as well. That would mean that this reality is not the base reality but a mere reflection of base reality. So even where in space you are at there is a deeper at. At death we would fall into that world on a one way street.
The brain serves as a veil from the underlying reality. Remove the veil and then see reality as it actually is with the inner eyes.
My beliefs come from Vedic, Theosophical and other wisdom traditions.
Right now we are a physical body with interpenetrating subtle bodies (some traditions call these astral/mental). The mental body creates thought and the astral body feels. At death the astral/mental body separates permanently from the physical body and continues thinking and feeling as before but in a lighter form without the dense physical overcoat. This is experienced in astral projection and Near Death Experiences as real-world evidence (not proof).
The astral/mental body has its own senses that tell us about the surrounding environment. The astral body is composed of subtle matter at a vibratory rate and in dimensions not directly detectable by the physical senses and instruments. Science tells us most of the matter in reality is not directly detectable by our physical senses and instruments (so-called Dark Matter).
Consciousness is non-physical and incarnates the bodies of the many planes of reality.