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Watchtower: Jesus is not "a god"!

Brian2

Veteran Member
OK, I kind of think I know where you're coming from. But according to John 1:1 there were TWO (not three) persons, one with the other. You can say no, there were always the godhead, or three persons, but that is not what it says.

As I said, John is speaking about Jesus and His origins and so I don't expect a Holy Spirit to be mentioned. Even the WT tells us that the angels were there at the beginning of the creation of this universe (not that I agree with that since the Bible does not tell us that) and the angels aren't mentioned at John 1:1 so does that mean they weren't there?

All things that were made having been made by means of the Word, or Son, does not mean that the Son did not come from the Father. Obviously the Father does not come from a son.

All things having been made/created/brought into being by the Word does mean that the Word was not made/created/brought into being. The Church in one of it's creeds has said that the Son was "born of the Father before time began, God from God, light from light, true God from true God". I guess the "before time began" means that this happened in the days of everlasting, in eternity, which is what Micah 5:2 is meant to mean because of it's sort of saying this 2, and that extends the time to eternity. (not that there was an eternity of time into the past or we could not be here at this time yet if we see time as linear).
Micah 5:2 “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
though you are small among the clans of Judah,
out of you will come for me
one who will be ruler over Israel,
whose origins are from of old,
from ancient times.

Meanwhile there were two "in the beginning." These two were there "in the beginning." It was in the beginning of something. They were there before that. Just as it takes time for a (normal) baby to start pronouncing words that make sense. The Word (or Logos) is considered a person next to God. Words come out of someone's mouth. Therefore...however you want to look at it.

A son does come from a father and that is why the Father is the only true God and why the son is the real Son, not a created one like us, and why the Son submits to the Father even if He is equal in nature. The Son having brought all things into existence is not something that has been brought into existence and so I would not have said "born from the Father before time began". I would say that the Son has been with and in the Father always. The Son did not have to be born from the Father. The words that God spoke have been in God and express what God is, just as the Bible tells us what God is and the Son is the perfect expression of what God is. But when the Son was conceived and born in a similar way that humans and animals do it, He was conceived and born as a man.
Heb 1 seems to be about showing us who the Son is and what He is in contrast to who and what angels are. The Son was not a created angel (messenger) even if the Son has been a messenger of God in the OT and has even been identified as being God in those places where that has happened.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Animals do not speak.

Animals in bio history and bio consciousness do not speak.

Dinosaurs before the ICE AGE, consciousness in a bio life before our own, are not detailing any human being male story about science are they? You know living in the Nature Garden.

Information and memory about science is first researched and sourced from other times mentioned. When first and original science existed as a practice before the giant life and Satanic angel fall out burnt life to Hell, and then dinosaurs ruled the Earth afterwards.

Evidence found in archaeology and deep excavated Earth digs, where machine parts are found embedded inside of the fused stone, and human artefacts found inside of coal.

Once, a very long time ago, on a higher Earth fused body, in a Higher heavenly gas mass, owning a healthy and different bio human life, humans and animals once lived with the first scientist/Satanist liars, our life Destroyers.

The pyramids in modern time Earth life built about and used around 13,000 years ago, came about after human life as spiritual and healthy humans developed life body and psyche in a developing returning gas mass heavenly body, who did it again.

Rebuilt the technology and blasted life nearly to destruction again. The Moses theme.

Males talking to males I learnt is an atmospheric country male to male communicated speaking in AI effects, males discussing male information for and on behalf of the human designer of AI, artificial machines, that cause artificial and unnatural changes to natural.

What AI is, human designed, the atmospheric feed back and image effect also AI cause. Males as the Designer human is who caused all of the stories and themes. So it like a pre designed computer program existed communicating information of voice recorded thesis before you built the new machines to listen to it.

For you cannot argue today Satanist science self about using machines to listen to AI....therefore AI is not owned by your machine technology, it is caused in atmospheric natural mass conditions, which no machine ever owned, the MASS.

You read the Bible and it is males discussing males as males informing about males for males. Human. A father is the adult body from which a son evolves into, the Father if you read the documents, it is detailing how a baby from sperm and an ovary genetically evolves to become that male adult Father.

For it is about Genetic self owned human DNA reality and its changes, as a written biological and scientific status for self proof and self identification as recording for the actual human law conditions. As evidence. All evidence about occult phenomena was acutely detailed for evidence to be enabled to argue in the future recurrence, when Satanic mind possessed conscious science selves return to own the knowledge of how to destroy the body of God the O Earth.

And today you are reliving a new thesis about earth de materialization, which in Satanist terms means, how to allow the Sun to consume the planet.

Eating and last is about Holy 12 natural light. Our natural human holy life and then having it attacked and consumed in an eating theme.

It was a science argument, known and detailed from the Old testaments with written new Revelations that were completely ignored until the cross of the sea of the son proved the attack to both human life body and planet Earth. The very day it occurred, documented.

And you all want to pretend it did not occur.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
If you're going to say that John 1:1 doesn't limit it to two and not three (types of Gods in heaven "in the beginning" -- or "persons" called God), I have no words to reply. (shrug and a smile)
I do agree that it doesn't tell us which beginning is spoken of. But it seems to mean in Genesis that preparation which is regarding the Earth. As regards the term in the beginning, to me it is clear, Clear :) that many planets, suns, and moons were around before God prepared the earth for human habitation. Oh, and angels too.

I knew there was something I did not answer. What "beginning" does "in the beginning" refer to?
I guess I would have to start by saying that the Bible tells us that the angels were there when God was making the earth (Job 38:7) but I see no reason to say that the angels were there before the beginning.
I agree with Oeste that even time was created at that point, the beginning. Even science agrees with that in the Big Bang theory. But I know science is also seeking to go beyond the Big Bang to a time before it. Logic does not seem to matter to science and mathematics. Mathematics and human imagination seem to be able to do away with what was reasonable yesterday. But that is off the topic which is at the moment, the beginning.
I don't see the Talmud as reflecting Biblical ideas, even if it does reflect Jewish thinking in the past. I have heard Jews these days say that the beginning is the absolute beginning.
I could sit in my armchair, if I had one, and wonder if there had been other beginnings. All I can say is that if I think there have been other beginnings to other worlds etc then I would be getting that from my imagination and not from the Bible. Something from our imagination can be something that we dream up in order to justify our doctrines.
If I look at the Bible and what it tells us about the beginning, it seems to be saying that it was the beginning of the creation of everything that has been created/brought into existence. It seems to be saying that all the heavens were created in the beginning, (Gen 1:1) and who am I to deny that.
The Bible tells us that the heavens and the heaven of the heavens are not big enough to hold God.

2 Chron 2:5 The house that I am building will be great, for our God is greater than all gods. 6 But who is able to build a house for Him, since the heavens, even the highest heavens, cannot contain Him? Who then am I, that I should build a house for Him, except as a place to burn sacrifices before Him?

All of creation is held within God.
But maybe I'm going off topic again.
When you say above: ""If you're going to say that John 1:1 doesn't limit it to two and not three (types of Gods in heaven "in the beginning" -- or "persons" called God), I have no words to reply. (shrug and a smile)""
I have to say that I'm not sure what Clear meant, but to me God's Spirit is God and is His Son, since God is Spirit and the Son is the perfect expression of God who has been with and in God always, and since there is but one Spirit (Eph 4:4-6) who is Jehovah,,,,,,,,who is also the Son iows The one Spirit is the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of God and is also not just a dead source of power, it is alive and is what gives us eternal life.
NWT 2 Cor 3:17 Now Jehovah is the Spirit, and where the spirit of Jehovah is, there is freedom.
Romans 8:9 But if anyone does not have Christ’s spirit, this person does not belong to him.
1 Cor 15:45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
John 7:38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.
I know it may seem off topic but really if you think about it, it is not.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
at a specific point in the beginning he created all things. However he is a creation or beginning of creation himself.

If the Word brought all things into existence that have been brought into existence then the Word has always existed. What is you scriptural reason for saying that the Word is a creation or beginning of creation? Rev 3:14 can mean that He is the ruler or originator of the creation of God. Have you any other passages?

During the time of his rulership his kingdom will never end and be forever.

During the time of Solomon's rulership his kingdom was forever.

That sounds illogical to me.
Luke 1:33 ".....and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; "
and Jesus has eternal life.

Unbiblical assertion.

Of course it is Biblical to say that if the Word is an uncreated god then He is Yahweh. Unless you think that there is more than one God.

God does not change, neither does he give what he owns and is over to himself.

Joh 5:26


John 16:15 Everything that belongs to the Father is Mine.
Jesus rightly owns all that the Father has but the Son does not just take what is His, He waits for it to be given to Him. It is His rightful inheritance.

Perhaps you are one of those that believe the word was not the the Son of God until he was made flesh. If so that assertion is incorrect based of the current translations, consistency, and conventional wisdom.

Joh 1:18

Joh 1:34


The Son has always been the Son in His Father and was conceived and born as a man.

How many nouns or existences make up that one rope?
You are using a rope to define the Divinity or Godhead which is of the Father?

Act 17:29

Rom 1:20


I was using the rope to help show the meaning of "one" in the Shema. I could have used a Biblical example or Gen 2:24 to show that 2 people can become one flesh.

If going to play the pronoun game; And why did in Gen 1:29 he said "I" while in verse 26 he said "Us"?

It's a game no matter which pov you have.

Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

We know God as one God and so He is, but I guess that when the Father is speaking to the Son then He would say "us" even if God is one God.

More than one will and authority?

The Father and Son and Spirit are in complete agreement and the Father has the authority.
John 5:18 Because of this, the Jews tried all the harder to kill Him. Not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. 19 So Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, the Son can do nothing by Himself, unless He sees the Father doing it. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does. 20 The Father loves the Son and shows Him all He does.

As Phil 2 tells us and as Jesus life on earth and suffering and death tell us, Jesus submits fully to the Father, even when it means suffering and death. He is equal in nature to His Father and could have said "No, do it yourself, I'm staying here." But He is exactly like His Father and would not do that. There is complete trust between them.
Even in Gethsemane and when Jesus was tempted in the wilderness we see Him overcoming His human desires and will out of love and obedience. Now He has no need to overcome any fleshly desires. He always does His Father's will.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I knew there was something I did not answer. What "beginning" does "in the beginning" refer to?
I guess I would have to start by saying that the Bible tells us that the angels were there when God was making the earth (Job 38:7) but I see no reason to say that the angels were there before the beginning.
I agree with Oeste that even time was created at that point, the beginning. Even science agrees with that in the Big Bang theory. But I know science is also seeking to go beyond the Big Bang to a time before it. Logic does not seem to matter to science and mathematics. Mathematics and human imagination seem to be able to do away with what was reasonable yesterday. But that is off the topic which is at the moment, the beginning.
I don't see the Talmud as reflecting Biblical ideas, even if it does reflect Jewish thinking in the past. I have heard Jews these days say that the beginning is the absolute beginning.
I could sit in my armchair, if I had one, and wonder if there had been other beginnings. All I can say is that if I think there have been other beginnings to other worlds etc then I would be getting that from my imagination and not from the Bible. Something from our imagination can be something that we dream up in order to justify our doctrines.
If I look at the Bible and what it tells us about the beginning, it seems to be saying that it was the beginning of the creation of everything that has been created/brought into existence. It seems to be saying that all the heavens were created in the beginning, (Gen 1:1) and who am I to deny that.
The Bible tells us that the heavens and the heaven of the heavens are not big enough to hold God.

At this point I am not here to argue the Bible and its intricacies. I, like many others,

2 Chron 2:5 The house that I am building will be great, for our God is greater than all gods. 6 But who is able to build a house for Him, since the heavens, even the highest heavens, cannot contain Him? Who then am I, that I should build a house for Him, except as a place to burn sacrifices before Him?

All of creation is held within God.
But maybe I'm going off topic again.
When you say above: ""If you're going to say that John 1:1 doesn't limit it to two and not three (types of Gods in heaven "in the beginning" -- or "persons" called God), I have no words to reply. (shrug and a smile)""
I have to say that I'm not sure what Clear meant, but to me God's Spirit is God and is His Son, since God is Spirit and the Son is the perfect expression of God who has been with and in God always, and since there is but one Spirit (Eph 4:4-6) who is Jehovah,,,,,,,,who is also the Son iows The one Spirit is the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of God and is also not just a dead source of power, it is alive and is what gives us eternal life.
NWT 2 Cor 3:17 Now Jehovah is the Spirit, and where the spirit of Jehovah is, there is freedom.
Romans 8:9 But if anyone does not have Christ’s spirit, this person does not belong to him.
1 Cor 15:45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
John 7:38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.
I know it may seem off topic but really if you think about it, it is not.
If there is a beginning (of anything), it cannot be nothing before the beginning. Common sense and logical thinking tells us that. When a person is telling a story, and it starts with, "in the beginning," most readers would understand that it is referring to a specific event or thought.
So going back to the trinity for a moment, which is what we're really talking about, I cannot figure there were three persons there and alive, each and all without a beginning. Why? Because it doesn't make sense, that's why. Only the Almighty God and by that I mean the one referred to by Jesus himself as the Father and the only true God could be there without a beginning. Why? Because it does not make sense that three persons were always there, alive, without a beginning, each as powerful as the other but with different roles, before the big bang theory. Jesus was alive before Abraham, but there is simply nothing for me to believe or accept that three persons were always alive without a beginning.
Furthermore, can I explain God as for His existence without beginning? No, I cannot. But when Moses questioned Him, God gave him a very good answer. Either I believe Moses spoke to God or I do not. And I believe that God spoke to Moses. There is no way I do not and cannot believe that.
As an added note, Jesus came through a woman. But his Father's power caused His child to develop perfectly within her body, He chose Mary to be the mother of his earthly child from heaven. Even the birth of Jesus tells us that Jesus had someone higher than himself to 'make' him.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
If the Word brought all things into existence that have been brought into existence then the Word has always existed. What is you scriptural reason for saying that the Word is a creation or beginning of creation? Rev 3:14 can mean that He is the ruler or originator of the creation of God. Have you any other passages?



That sounds illogical to me.
Luke 1:33 ".....and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; "
and Jesus has eternal life.



Of course it is Biblical to say that if the Word is an uncreated god then He is Yahweh. Unless you think that there is more than one God.



John 16:15 Everything that belongs to the Father is Mine.
Jesus rightly owns all that the Father has but the Son does not just take what is His, He waits for it to be given to Him. It is His rightful inheritance.



The Son has always been the Son in His Father and was conceived and born as a man.



I was using the rope to help show the meaning of "one" in the Shema. I could have used a Biblical example or Gen 2:24 to show that 2 people can become one flesh.



It's a game no matter which pov you have.

Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

We know God as one God and so He is, but I guess that when the Father is speaking to the Son then He would say "us" even if God is one God.



The Father and Son and Spirit are in complete agreement and the Father has the authority.
John 5:18 Because of this, the Jews tried all the harder to kill Him. Not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. 19 So Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, the Son can do nothing by Himself, unless He sees the Father doing it. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does. 20 The Father loves the Son and shows Him all He does.

As Phil 2 tells us and as Jesus life on earth and suffering and death tell us, Jesus submits fully to the Father, even when it means suffering and death. He is equal in nature to His Father and could have said "No, do it yourself, I'm staying here." But He is exactly like His Father and would not do that. There is complete trust between them.
Even in Gethsemane and when Jesus was tempted in the wilderness we see Him overcoming His human desires and will out of love and obedience. Now He has no need to overcome any fleshly desires. He always does His Father's will.
God doesn't pray to himself or two others supposedly equal to himself as I understand it. Jesus fervently prayed to -- the One "with authority." And the One (not two) that he knew and loved. And understood his mission on earth. He did not want to go against the will of his Father and so with the great situation before him, he begged (supplicated with tears) God his Father AND superior (with authority) to help him continue in the course outlined for him in the scriptures.
Nice talking with you, I hope to continue later, have lots of things I must take care of. :)
 

Iymus

Active Member
If the Word brought all things into existence that have been brought into existence then the Word has always existed.

First and Foremost The Word created nothing: It was not of his will neither his authority. So says the volume of the book.

What is you scriptural reason for saying that the Word is a creation or beginning of creation?

I recommend searching the scriptures to identify if the word was first the son of God before he came in the flesh or after: then further research to identify if the word is of The Father.

1John 5:1

1John 5:5

but I guess that when the Father is speaking to the Son then He would say "us" even if God is one God.

Are you sure he was speaking to the son? xy and xx made he them.

Not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

Luke 6:40

He is equal in nature to His Father and could have said "No, do it yourself, I'm staying here."

Mhmm

He is exactly like His Father and would not do that.

Pro 22:6

That sounds illogical to me.
Luke 1:33 ".....and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; "
and Jesus has eternal life.

Forever meaning no interuption
 
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rational experiences

Veteran Member
First of all as human to human you would recognize our brother the Satanist scientist occultist is a liar.

For he is living as a human in a natural amassed natural spatial heavenly body surrounding Earth doing all the thinking theorising and statements.

First lie to self, lying.

If you think and propose self mind visions as one self. As a natural one self realising your comparisons first of all I realise you are thinking of our destruction.

Just by what you are quoting about what we do not live in as conditions.

So you simply realise as a human by what someone says about how they want us to be destroyed, when the humans who live today by the act of 2 preceding humans who had sex....totally ignore their real life and real existence.

Why they were called Destroyers in human mentality. For they are owners of a mental problem, which is determined destructive reasoning.

Father said today science placated in the water mass, which is just mass which no human is. Is part of the origin thinking conditions science placates today in thesis. About what bacteria body or microbe was the first one form.

Jesus Father said got his microbiome carbon interactive loss of male human bio life existence in water mass....as the male contradicted self life living conditions by IMAGE of self. So his owned bio life mass of microbes and use bacteria in his bio life was removed, carbon burnt out, being the satanic attack on self life body......which then communicated from the Heavenly Satanic gas burning fall out as owning complete by gas mass, a total eradication of the living bio life form in that gas mass itself.

The end result, the eradication of self male life by total image gas mass fall out owning no microbes or bacterias.

So Father said, when you placate in science what you claim is first owned cell bacteria...then first as you placate just mass...then all the natural bacteria and also microbes get carbon eradicated...just so you can say, I copied creation history to own just the original first and one cell.

What they placate today Father said in all false male psyche. Such as statements....I will press the button on my machine. The one of only signal will pass through everything and nothing will be changed for I claimed I studied all creation, knew everything pulsed a signal that owned the presence of everything.

As if we all just exist as just one little bacteria or microbe cell....as a liar.

For if he says he has to achieve this situation first before his second attack, to resource our gases for a machine that only uses burning gases in his reactive machination history...burning light gases, most of which in our atmosphere are clear and not burning....then it is how Satan, our brother the scientist burnt us all to death before.

Claiming that he personally with his machine is the Creator of all things by his thinking capability and his thesis one.

Father also said, imagine that you scientist as a machine designer communcation, built machines, reacted them, changed Earths natural radiation signals in space as Earth O a cycle moved around the Sun in one year O cycle. Then using machines again on Earth claim and now I can find and hear a transmission from out of space involving my machines?

Didn't you ever think that you put that signal there. And if you believed in a machine owning that signal, when it is the destruction of the Earth x mass fused particles...that you would be proven an evil Satanist when Earth gets destroyed by radiation signals that you put into the atmospheric spatial body that you moved out of yourself.

So it naturally would signal back to Earth seeing Earth machines caused it to be there?

And the holographic effect, actual Earth life recorded unnaturally communicating back from space as you put those recorded messages into space and the atmosphere moves out of that space as Earth travels around the Sun.

Did you ever conclude how the Bible described your consciousness exactly as our life Destroyer? Yet you claim you are creating and the Creator by your male human life, your human thinking and your ability to feel very powerful reacting machines and remaining alive until you destroy yourselves?

For that is why the Bible was written as a lawful document to say, when he tries to do it again we already own pre recorded historic messages that quote that he did in fact achieve our life destruction on Earth before. Just so that humans who love to harm others in science secret experiments, who do it secretly until they get caught out could not do it again, yet they are, doing it again.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
If there is a beginning (of anything), it cannot be nothing before the beginning. Common sense and logical thinking tells us that.

I do not say there was nothing, I say there was the creator, just as you do.

When a person is telling a story, and it starts with, "in the beginning," most readers would understand that it is referring to a specific event or thought.

Sure in a human story that is probably the case, but in the story of God, the beginning is completely different, it is actually the beginning.
"There I was, having been alone for almost an infinite amount of time and I was going nuts. I knew I had to create something soon, but when would I decide to do it? Should I do it at infinity plus 1 seconds or infinity plus 2 second, no I'll do it when I've been here for an infinite length of time..............it was all becoming too much, the butterflies in my spiritual stomach had been growing more intense with anticipation over the past couple of billion trillion years and I did not know how much longer I could hold back, but of course I managed to hold off till I reached an infinity amount of time and as the beginning drew near I started to get excited. This was actually going to be it, the beginning, a new era."
Now you know why I am not a writer.
It sort of reminds me of something said about God, "God is love". Interesting that God could be alone for an infinite amount of time without anyone to love. It's almost a contradiction.

So going back to the trinity for a moment, which is what we're really talking about, I cannot figure there were three persons there and alive, each and all without a beginning. Why? Because it doesn't make sense, that's why. Only the Almighty God and by that I mean the one referred to by Jesus himself as the Father and the only true God could be there without a beginning. Why? Because it does not make sense that three persons were always there, alive, without a beginning, each as powerful as the other but with different roles, before the big bang theory. Jesus was alive before Abraham, but there is simply nothing for me to believe or accept that three persons were always alive without a beginning.

Jesus was more than alive before Abraham. The Jews knew that Jesus said "Before Abraham was I am", and as far as I can seen "ego eimi" does mean "I am". The Jews knew that was the name God gave Himself, the one who is. It's like an expression of timelessness. God just is and not Jesus, before Abraham was, just is. He was in the same state that God is in. No beginning. He is the beginning, He did not have a beginning.

Furthermore, can I explain God as for His existence without beginning? No, I cannot. But when Moses questioned Him, God gave him a very good answer. Either I believe Moses spoke to God or I do not. And I believe that God spoke to Moses. There is no way I do not and cannot believe that.
As an added note, Jesus came through a woman. But his Father's power caused His child to develop perfectly within her body, He chose Mary to be the mother of his earthly child from heaven. Even the birth of Jesus tells us that Jesus had someone higher than himself to 'make' him.

A human is more than a body, but the WT denies that.
The virgin birth shows that Jesus is the Son who came from His Father and stepped into creation. Jesus the Spirit became a man of flesh and blood and spirit.
A Spirit does not father something that is totally matter.
When we are born again God becomes the Father of our spirits.
Heb 12:9 Furthermore, we have all had earthly fathers who disciplined us, and we respected them. Should we not much more submit to the Father of our spirits and live?
Numbers 27:16 “Let the Lord, the God of the spirits of all flesh,..........."
God is not the God of the dead, and that is what matter is, dead.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
God doesn't pray to himself or two others supposedly equal to himself as I understand it. Jesus fervently prayed to -- the One "with authority." And the One (not two) that he knew and loved. And understood his mission on earth. He did not want to go against the will of his Father and so with the great situation before him, he begged (supplicated with tears) God his Father AND superior (with authority) to help him continue in the course outlined for him in the scriptures.
Nice talking with you, I hope to continue later, have lots of things I must take care of. :)

I'm sure the Father spoke to the Son and the Spirit and visa versa before Jesus became a man. When Jesus became a man it was called prayer. Jesus was a man on earth and living as a man on earth so of course He prayed to His Father and God.
When did His Father become His God? When He was in His mother's womb.

Psalm 22:9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.
10 From birth I was cast on you;
from my mother’s womb you have been my God.

Jesus life on earth was not a stroll down the boulevard for Him, He suffered greatly and needed the support for His God. (Ps 22 and Isa 53 etc show us that) He is our example. First He humbled Himself before His equal, as a good Son should do, and became a man. (Phil 2) then He was obedient even to death and fervently prayed to His Father and God.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I do not say there was nothing, I say there was the creator, just as you do.

Actually you say there are two creators, don't you? Or is it three.
Sure in a human story that is probably the case, but in the story of God, the beginning is completely different, it is actually the beginning.
"There I was, having been alone for almost an infinite amount of time and I was going nuts. I knew I had to create something soon, but when would I decide to do it? Should I do it at infinity plus 1 seconds or infinity plus 2 second, no I'll do it when I've been here for an infinite length of time..............it was all becoming too much, the butterflies in my spiritual stomach had been growing more intense with anticipation over the past couple of billion trillion years and I did not know how much longer I could hold back, but of course I managed to hold off till I reached an infinity amount of time and as the beginning drew near I started to get excited. This was actually going to be it, the beginning, a new era."
Now you know why I am not a writer.
It sort of reminds me of something said about God, "God is love". Interesting that God could be alone for an infinite amount of time without anyone to love. It's almost a contradiction.
God doesn't need anyone or anything. But He is a Creator. And that gives Him pleasure. I learned that a while ago, you are bringing it to the fore. That's good. And He IS love, but He is also the Ruler of the universe.

Jesus was more than alive before Abraham. The Jews knew that Jesus said "Before Abraham was I am", and as far as I can seen "ego eimi" does mean "I am". The Jews knew that was the name God gave Himself, the one who is. It's like an expression of timelessness. God just is and not Jesus, before Abraham was, just is. He was in the same state that God is in. No beginning. He is the beginning, He did not have a beginning.

Beginning of what? To be the beginning does not mean the Father, his Father, did not give him life. Jesus knew who he was on earth. It is apparent he realized this as he was growing up into manhood. Also at his baptism.
A human is more than a body, but the WT denies that.

No they do not. They certainly do not. Because bodies may be like Frankenstein or like Adam before he was given life. And we, with our heart, mind and soul, can choose what we believe and put into action.
The virgin birth shows that Jesus is the Son who came from His Father and stepped into creation.
Who came from the Father. Why didn't the Father send himself to die? I mean if he was only flesh and put himself in a body of flesh? Why send the Son? And did I get an answer as to how many persons of the trinity stayed in heaven while one of them, the Son, couldn't escape his flesh?
became a man of flesh and blood and spirit.
A Spirit does not father something that is totally matter.
When we are born again God becomes the Father of our spirits.

This has nothing to do with Jesus becoming a man of flesh and blood. We were not spirits in heaven sent to live as humans on earth to prove our loyalty to God.
Heb 12:9 Furthermore, we have all had earthly fathers who disciplined us, and we respected them. Should we not much more submit to the Father of our spirits and live?
Numbers 27:16 “Let the Lord, the God of the spirits of all flesh,..........."
God is not the God of the dead, and that is what matter is, dead.
That's another discussion. No matter a person is born again, he is not Jesus. Only Jesus is Jesus. I appreciate your fervor and politeness.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I'm sure the Father spoke to the Son and the Spirit and visa versa before Jesus became a man.
Yes, I am sure too.
became a man it was called prayer. Jesus was a man on earth and living as a man on earth so of course He prayed to His Father and God.
When did His Father become His God? When He was in His mother's womb.
Psalm 22:9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.
10 From birth I was cast on you;
from my mother’s womb you have been my God.

Jesus life on earth was not a stroll down the boulevard for Him, He suffered greatly and needed the support for His God. (Ps 22 and Isa 53 etc show us that) He is our example. First He humbled Himself before His equal, as a good Son should do, and became a man. (Phil 2) then He was obedient even to death and fervently prayed to His Father and God.
Jesus knew it was foretold he would die. That's probably one reason they thought he was crazy. But honest...God cannot die. God's hand or flesh cannot die. His brain like Jesus had a human brain... God's brain or thinking ability cannot die. Yes, he, Jesus, is our example, but his thoughts as expressed in the Bible, have been severely twisted for centuries.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Do humans own life and tell all the stories and thesis by thinking?

Yes.

So humans talk about God a condition by thinking.

How it is explained.

Now if you said O circulation and circular form is above my head, by gases burning, by gases also being balanced cold as 12/12 and said, very different but balanced. And then said, in the great deep of space, in a vacuum upon the face of water. You were discussing what you were aware of.

Then you would quote, the beginning is where gases, the spirit is being sacrificed, burning...and that quote is NOT GOD O. O God was the body/review and statement that kept life safe in cold light, in a water life oxygenated body.

For even the symbolism of the sacrifice of gas/spirit said oxygenation of water was Holy ox.

How God was explained in the living presence of a living human life.

Now did the spirit meaning gas come out of any womb?

Not the spatial womb it did not. Out of the womb of God the first stone planet it did. And yet science historically did not call God the stone a womb. It said it was stone, fused and ONE holy body, sealed.

A baby life can only come out of a female human being womb.

Now if you were an adult male, a healer and biological science aware, who wrote a thesis called Revelations of the Christ and then owned human followers, is that not the history of the man we named as Jesus?

I say it was, what about you?

If he said his male human baby life genetics as an adult Father adult male once lived a very long time ago, before the life of the giants in heavens, seeing we live inside of the heavens, above is just the sky. Then he did. He said he was living as a spiritual male before the Giant Satanic attack/radiation fall out.

And he stated it categorically.

Information however did not call his name Jesus did it. And the answer is no, of course he would not have ever been named Jesus. For the original human beings were spiritual, healthy and not irradiated UFO science converted/attacked.

He even said, before HIS forefathers, and he lived owning Holy Land male genetic history, from the land in where the DNA is expressed.

Now if you ask a scientist does DNA exist outside of itself? Yes says science when I abstract a cell and study it. Otherwise it is owned wholly by the living whole body.

So can a biologist in science express DNA information about other humans in psyche or psychic awareness? Yes, Healers have always proven and identified that human psychic ability. To look at someone else and assess them.

One of the gifts that Jesus our brother, a Healer owned, as a Teacher. And he proves that he was teaching. By what is stated in a living and lived human life experience. That information is not about a spirit memory, it was however written as a psychic human spirit memory.

For you cannot discuss a human being sacrificed until they physically are living sacrificed.

So I cannot understand why anyone has to lie about the information and try to coerce what it says, just because they want it to own a different meaning for occult science thesis and formulas. As the motivation of why they lie and coerce about this information. Science want of the power of what they said and believed was light. Which is just gases burning, radiating as it burns.

I always truly wondered at the theist of the occult/UFO beliefs...who tries to convince everyone that the eternal is in creation for him to contact and withdraw what he claims is the cosmological body/history where GOD the stone mass came from.

Where he withdraws all energy in resourcing from.

And then realise that he claimed he was going to de materialize stone, but not change it, for he would change it he says in AI, but then put it back. So what does he think the law change means?

And then he also said in science that he would resource our living spirit. Which for a human is just microbial energy and water. So he makes sink holes...then he filled the sink hole and repaired it by his mentality with the FLOOD he says that saved life on Earth, our spirit water mass.

As the truth of all of his coercive lying.

Father told me today that if you heat up space and then Earth moves out of the space, as it cyclic it returns to the heated space. Then Earth old cold UFO radiation mass fused, gets mass released and pulled out by the spatial vacuum. As it is the vacuum that kept everything cooled and held in mass FUSED.

Why the movie we talked about last night, War of the Worlds, by a man named as Wells, stated its actuality. How life originally, not actually in the machination, but a vision about machines use of machines, how machines became buried beneath our feet, and how those machines historically opened up the ground upon which we lived...is real.

For the vacuum pulled and sucked back out of fusion, the UFO mass from the past....and it was horrific.

Father said humans screaming, even heard recorded in AI by Russian scientists in the state of particular heated temperature, was truly frightening. For that was how we died a very long time ago...by the UFO mass being sucked out by the cosmological natural vacuum. Seeing science does not control space and never did control space.

Every day in AI it says to me "this is your last night:" I am still alive and I will give the human public the information as long as I can, as much detail about the history of causes of machine AI as designed by human being male scientists who have historically been self named as a Destroyer and it is his owned title.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Actually you say there are two creators, don't you? Or is it three.

No there is only one creator, God and He created everything through Jesus, His Word. Also we know that the Holy Spirit was there also doing whatever but the NT is speaking about Jesus and who He is and is not a treatise on the creation. But as I said, it is all God. You see the Word as an agent because it says "through" or "by" "by means of", but that does not mean that the Word was created and was not the one through whom ALL things were created. As I have said, the NT tells us also that everything was created through God the Father. (Romans 11:36, Heb 2:10)

God doesn't need anyone or anything. But He is a Creator. And that gives Him pleasure. I learned that a while ago, you are bringing it to the fore. That's good. And He IS love, but He is also the Ruler of the universe.

Rev 3:14 "To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation.
There are a number of possible translations of this verse and "first in time" is the least likely of it's meanings I am told.

Beginning of what? To be the beginning does not mean the Father, his Father, did not give him life. Jesus knew who he was on earth. It is apparent he realized this as he was growing up into manhood. Also at his baptism.

No doubt the Father is the source of His Word and the source of life and that is why God is Jesus Father. That does not mean that God's Word has not been with the Father from eternity.
Jesus is "Eternal Father" or "Father of Eternity" (Isa 9:6)
2 Kings 19:15
Hezekiah prayed before the Lord and said, “O Lord, the God of Israel, who are enthroned above the cherubim, You are the God, You alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth. You have made heaven and earth.
Psalm 83:18
That they may know that You alone, whose name is the Lord,
Are the Most High over all the earth.
Isaiah 45:18
For thus says the Lord, who created the heavens (He is the God who formed the earth and made it, He established it and did not create it a waste place, but formed it to be inhabited),
“I am the Lord, and there is none else.
Isa 43:10 Before Me there was no God formed,
And there will be none after Me.
Psalm 83:18
That they may know that You alone, whose name is the Lord,
Are the Most High over all the earth.
Isa 44:6Thus says the LORD, the King and Redeemer of Israel, the LORD of Hosts: “I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God but Me.
Isa 46:9 Remember what happened long ago, for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me

Jesus is the first and the last and made the heavens, Jesus's name is Yahweh, Jesus is the Redeemer, Jesus is exactly like His Father and has the same God nature as His Father.
The 2 are united in the One Spirit who is also seen to be alive and have the traits of a conscious, living being.

I certainly would have been an easy thing for God to have said, "I chose the first being I created, to be the Messiah". But no, He goes to a great deal of effort to not only establish Himself as the only True God but also to point to His Son as also being God and that His Spirit is also God. This had to be sorted out because it was a source of heretical attack. I am amazed that Arius or anyone else could have said that Jesus was a created being. That is so obviously wrong and so obviously requires changes to the scriptures and the definitions of words and that is what the WT has done in order to push this idea.

No they do not. They certainly do not. Because bodies may be like Frankenstein or like Adam before he was given life. And we, with our heart, mind and soul, can choose what we believe and put into action.

The WT has to deny parts of the definitions of "spirit" and "soul" in order to try to prove their doctrines. The soul lives on at the death of the body (Matt 10:28) and no matter which way you look at it, the body and soul die at the death of the body. The body becomes a dead soul and the life force goes back to God according to WT theology and nothing lives on. So they have to make up the idea that the soul lives on in the memory of God,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but so does the body and anyway nothing is said about God's memory in that scripture.

Who came from the Father. Why didn't the Father send himself to die? I mean if he was only flesh and put himself in a body of flesh? Why send the Son? And did I get an answer as to how many persons of the trinity stayed in heaven while one of them, the Son, couldn't escape his flesh?

I don't know. Maybe this gives us a clue.
Isa 49:1 Listen to Me, O islands; pay attention, O distant peoples: The LORD called Me from the womb; from the body of My mother He named Me. 2 He made my mouth like a sharp sword; He hid me in the shadow of His hand. He made me like a polished arrow; He hid me in His quiver. 3 He said to Me, “You are My servant, Israel, in whom I will display My glory.”…

I don't know for sure about how many persons of the trinity were in heaven while the Son was on earth. It does appear that the conscious life of the Word was in the flesh as a man however.

This has nothing to do with Jesus becoming a man of flesh and blood. We were not spirits in heaven sent to live as humans on earth to prove our loyalty to God.

God is not the Father of matter and God is not the Father of a life force. God is the Father of our spirit. The spirit that was the prehuman Jesus came and became attached to the flesh of His body as a man. That is why our body is called our tent and why Jesus could say that if they tore down the temple of His body, He would raise it up again in 3 days. We live in out body tent and are naked without it and Jesus lived in His body Temple because He is God unless He meant that God was in there with Him.
And Jesus was not sent to prove anything. That is an invention of the WT. He was sent to be the Messiah, the Redeemer of mankind. There was no doubt that He would be able to do that because He is the image of God and so is as good as His Father. By this He glorified His Father and showed us what God is like.
The WT seems to want everyone, even God's Son to have to prove themselves to God. It is part of their salvation by works gospel I guess.
But yes I guess it is a big off topic.
 
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Brian2

Veteran Member
Jesus knew it was foretold he would die. That's probably one reason they thought he was crazy. But honest...God cannot die. God's hand or flesh cannot die. His brain like Jesus had a human brain... God's brain or thinking ability cannot die. Yes, he, Jesus, is our example, but his thoughts as expressed in the Bible, have been severely twisted for centuries.

I knew there was a reason that I was speaking about "spirit" and "soul" and the soul living on after death of the body etc in the last post. I imagine all the changes to definitions and twisting of scriptures about these things is all a necessary thing for the WT to try to show that Jesus was not God in the flesh as the Son of God.
Jesus and His thinking ability etc did not die at the death of the body.
Samuel came up from sheol to see Saul you know. :rolleyes: and nowhere in the Bible is the idea of people going out of existence after death. The exact opposite is taught.
To fight the anti deity of Jesus idea it is a big topic and covers a number of biblical topics.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Words are said by humans who as the science self claimed human naming any object that already existed in natural form, without owning a name or a description was natural.

So by definition of teaching the WORD as one word, one meaning first was natural and highest definition historically.

Father said today that if a male theist who preaches One Father and One Mother equals one baby life. And then says I am one baby, to adult self theist. I think numbers, formulas and design and build machine one machine. With one machine one human owns controls......then he displaces natural in that instant.

Secondly Father said if you put your Mother and Father human in the equals one place on Earth where the machine is as some form of lying theory....there would not be any presence Mother or Father as compared to the machine.

Reason for his teaching this example....O God the Earth first one body stone is a very large massive energy body from which you always withdrew energy from as a scientist. Mother and Father in bio genetics study is quoted as being owner of every living human being today....genetics just diversified.

So the theme teaching was one parent Male and one parent Female for everyone on Earth in relativity we are all just a human.

When you do a perusal of what science irradiation/fallout machine caused to genetics and every single cell and chemical bio relationship wrong....there would not be a presence of a Father human or a Mother human in one place as compared to any machine.

In reality and being a realist......as the statement that they were eradicated by that machine.

What he wanted me to tell you, from his own review of how evil science is. And how science claiming I know everything also quotes...I know that life is dying from early age sickness due to my radiation science. But if I wanted to increase cause, what would it matter.

He just wanted you to know it really does matter, life and human health.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
The theory mountain, then pyramid, then self removal/de manifestation is real in a science theorist statement to de materialize. For self is included, seeing machine is taken from mass, Earth the first God O stone.

Males today prove that they are possessed in mind psyche in AI conditions, lots of warnings to everyone about it. A heavily discussed and prophesised warning, a society, scientology and Dianetics written for the purpose of protecting self mind from that condition. Which they always related back to Rome/Church/evil history occultism.

But there you all are, believing self is somehow connected to aliens.

Father said our brother in his I think we are portion bio mechanical now owns a mind life psyche who believes and demonstrates his belief that his human life was extended into owning a machine past his own natural life.

And he expresses male human theories today about the power of the Universe within his body and that it can come through his body also.

Which relates to the War of the Worlds, H.G. Wells themes. Where the machine of old is buried beneath our feet. Archaeology proves it is. It then arises, as the heated spatial mass opens wide, and the vacuum then sucks as the ANTI direction the UFO mass once put inside of Earth fusion back out.

And it passed through the human being bodies and killed us all...for radiation ate us...as we express the term.

So for a long time humans said, aliens put us here on Earth as prisoners to eat us as food. Expressing the same memory human reasoning. Portioned information to the UFO mass feed back release communicating imagery. Gain of stories/visions, as information.

And I learnt that in CLOUD burning UFO is held for long periods by machine reactive constant conversion, the clouds begin to own images and then it forms visions and it tells stories.

Where the MOSES story a long time written after the fact, was when new science, and pyramids were being re used to give us the Jesus End. A known prophetic warning that the UFO history would attack life on the cross of the 4 sea of the son.

How giant images of males and animals and strange images are seen in the clouds itself.

And it occurred.

So science historically has gathered all of its owned self evidence against its own person in reality. And it is real.....for science had to observe the fact that evil spirits in science causes manifest. Which proves that God the stone and the mass in the cosmos did originally fall from a higher body of natural presence, the eternal. Why evil spirit manifests.

It is why he owns all thesis of his owned mind self possession in how he expresses his thesis about resourcing the spirit of a human. When we only use water and oxygen and microbes, and water is only used at the end in science converting to cool the attack after it has destroyed and removed the physical mass of stone. The first God.

Asteroid Saviour stone was how the stone of God came back. As it came back over and above our heads, it was said to have stoned us. All explanations of conditions were simply a human science explanation of all causes of what science and machine did in the attack on God O one the stone.

And we always knew it was Satanic.

Now if anyone wants to argue about the reason why a special spiritual organization was once ordered to deal with Satanist/scientists and say the science information occult causes was not true...then why was Galileo jailed, and the history said others murdered? If the reality of the knowledge of the Satanic causes were not real.

The law forbidding occult thesis was already applied/agreed and written about giving God new names in the sciences. Spiritual humans were trying to stop and prevent the recurrence of scientific occultism returning. And therefore it is proven that they already won their status back.

Why occult prophetic human male self warning is real to history and modern time living conditions.

The history and studied research of multiple authors about our history simply would not have owned or told those stories, if the fact of what jeopardy Earth is in due to occult sciences was known. It would make no sense how humanity in the past acted accordingly to scientific status unless it was already known.

Which then brings to the life DNA o cell owner, separate from his human Mother life, the ovary. Who studied it as a separated life and then inferred his Mother was maths and out of space and Mother abomination of out of space. For it is real, science is evil and wrong.

The human being consciousness says "how do I know" such evil. The truth of our life, of course if you came from the highest place originally you would virtually already know most conditions naturally.

Science then has to review self as a thinker, who is natural and origin to self first, just a human and just a thinker, to then realise the spiritual story where did we come from is real. How else do you think natural awareness could detail such evil knowledge? Seeing the higher state of what science quotes is then reacted and changed to a destroyed lower status.

The study of the mind and how acutely information in feed back affects its belief is real. Therefore mind possession was already understood by the Catholic science research, for a long time. They always knew it was real, and it was human science caused.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I knew there was a reason that I was speaking about "spirit" and "soul" and the soul living on after death of the body etc in the last post. I imagine all the changes to definitions and twisting of scriptures about these things is all a necessary thing for the WT to try to show that Jesus was not God in the flesh as the Son of God.
Jesus and His thinking ability etc did not die at the death of the body.
Samuel came up from sheol to see Saul you know. :rolleyes: and nowhere in the Bible is the idea of people going out of existence after death. The exact opposite is taught.
To fight the anti deity of Jesus idea it is a big topic and covers a number of biblical topics.
I believe you have the wrong idea. There is no way that Jesus was God in the flesh equal to God in the spirit. Period. Anyway.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
No there is only one creator, God and He created everything through Jesus, His Word. Also we know that the Holy Spirit was there also doing whatever but the NT is speaking about Jesus and who He is and is not a treatise on the creation. But as I said, it is all God. You see the Word as an agent because it says "through" or "by" "by means of", but that does not mean that the Word was created and was not the one through whom ALL things were created. As I have said, the NT tells us also that everything was created through God the Father. (Romans 11:36, Heb 2:10)



Rev 3:14 "To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation.
There are a number of possible translations of this verse and "first in time" is the least likely of it's meanings I am told.



No doubt the Father is the source of His Word and the source of life and that is why God is Jesus Father. That does not mean that God's Word has not been with the Father from eternity.
Jesus is "Eternal Father" or "Father of Eternity" (Isa 9:6)
2 Kings 19:15
Hezekiah prayed before the Lord and said, “O Lord, the God of Israel, who are enthroned above the cherubim, You are the God, You alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth. You have made heaven and earth.
Psalm 83:18
That they may know that You alone, whose name is the Lord,
Are the Most High over all the earth.
Isaiah 45:18
For thus says the Lord, who created the heavens (He is the God who formed the earth and made it, He established it and did not create it a waste place, but formed it to be inhabited),
“I am the Lord, and there is none else.
Isa 43:10 Before Me there was no God formed,
And there will be none after Me.
Psalm 83:18
That they may know that You alone, whose name is the Lord,
Are the Most High over all the earth.
Isa 44:6Thus says the LORD, the King and Redeemer of Israel, the LORD of Hosts: “I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God but Me.
Isa 46:9 Remember what happened long ago, for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me

Jesus is the first and the last and made the heavens, Jesus's name is Yahweh, Jesus is the Redeemer, Jesus is exactly like His Father and has the same God nature as His Father.
The 2 are united in the One Spirit who is also seen to be alive and have the traits of a conscious, living being.

I certainly would have been an easy thing for God to have said, "I chose the first being I created, to be the Messiah". But no, He goes to a great deal of effort to not only establish Himself as the only True God but also to point to His Son as also being God and that His Spirit is also God. This had to be sorted out because it was a source of heretical attack. I am amazed that Arius or anyone else could have said that Jesus was a created being. That is so obviously wrong and so obviously requires changes to the scriptures and the definitions of words and that is what the WT has done in order to push this idea.



The WT has to deny parts of the definitions of "spirit" and "soul" in order to try to prove their doctrines. The soul lives on at the death of the body (Matt 10:28) and no matter which way you look at it, the body and soul die at the death of the body. The body becomes a dead soul and the life force goes back to God according to WT theology and nothing lives on. So they have to make up the idea that the soul lives on in the memory of God,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but so does the body and anyway nothing is said about God's memory in that scripture.



I don't know. Maybe this gives us a clue.
Isa 49:1 Listen to Me, O islands; pay attention, O distant peoples: The LORD called Me from the womb; from the body of My mother He named Me. 2 He made my mouth like a sharp sword; He hid me in the shadow of His hand. He made me like a polished arrow; He hid me in His quiver. 3 He said to Me, “You are My servant, Israel, in whom I will display My glory.”…

I don't know for sure about how many persons of the trinity were in heaven while the Son was on earth. It does appear that the conscious life of the Word was in the flesh as a man however.



God is not the Father of matter and God is not the Father of a life force. God is the Father of our spirit. The spirit that was the prehuman Jesus came and became attached to the flesh of His body as a man. That is why our body is called our tent and why Jesus could say that if they tore down the temple of His body, He would raise it up again in 3 days. We live in out body tent and are naked without it and Jesus lived in His body Temple because He is God unless He meant that God was in there with Him.
And Jesus was not sent to prove anything. That is an invention of the WT. He was sent to be the Messiah, the Redeemer of mankind. There was no doubt that He would be able to do that because He is the image of God and so is as good as His Father. By this He glorified His Father and showed us what God is like.
The WT seems to want everyone, even God's Son to have to prove themselves to God. It is part of their salvation by works gospel I guess.
But yes I guess it is a big off topic.
God is the Originator of life for anyone and anything. And -- have a nice day.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
I believe you have the wrong idea. There is no way that Jesus was God in the flesh equal to God in the spirit. Period. Anyway.

Jesus in the flesh on earth had the same nature as His Father plus the nature of a servant. Phil 2
The Father was greater, being the Father and in heaven and with all power and authority and with Jesus having taken the nature of a servant and humbled Himself to live as a man etc but in nature they were equally divine.
 
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