Hypocrites (non-Muslims defending Islam)

[Piculet]

Non-Muslims who defend Islam against the futile attacks of blatant islamophobes.

What makes them hypocrites? That they're either secretly or openly hostile to Islam. They're only accepting toward what they think Islam could be if it was as corrupt as Christianity.

I say blatant islamophobes because perhaps over half of these defenders could actually be considered covert islamophobes themselves. They're accepting in any vague conversation, but as soon as an actual ruling of Islam is introduced to them from the Quran or the Sunnah, e.g. hijab is mandatory, 4 wives are permissable and modern dating is prohibited, they are, as a rule, somewhat shocked, uncomfortable and judgmental.

Don't confuse this with defending Muslims. That can be done even if one is openly hateful toward Islam. The problem comes precisely when the defender thinks or pretends they are defending Islam as a religion, when at the same time they are attempting (possibly unawares and by accident) to corrupt Muslims by leading some of them away from Islam.

 

[Polymath257]

Maybe a bit of criticism of Islam is a good thing? Sometimes change is not corruption, but cleansing.

I think that it is perfectly reasonable to support the right of people to follow a certain religion while also criticizing that religion.

 

[Quintessence]

That's rather judgmental of you. How do you know that those who don't like seeing people bullied because of their religion are, in reality, rooting for the bully behind your back?

Spoiler - we aren't.

Persecution complexes happen when you feel even those who stand up for you aren't standing up for you. Don't do that to yourself. As someone who sees this fairly often within the contemporary Pagan community, just don't do that to yourself. It isn't good for your mental health.

 

[Harel13]

Maybe a bit of criticism of Islam is a good thing? Sometimes change is not corruption, but cleansing.

I think that it is perfectly reasonable to support the right of people to follow a certain religion while also criticizing that religion.

I have a feeling that the OP wasn't planning on even going in this direction with this thread (though of course, I may be wrong)...

 

[Polymath257]

As for the specifics: I really don't care whether people wear a head wrap. If a man can have 4 wives, then a woman should be allowed to have 4 husbands (which, by the way, I support). And I'm not quite sure what 'modern dating' means, but men and women should be allowed to get to know each other (including time alone with each other) prior to getting married.

At least, that's what seems fair to me.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Non-Muslims who defend Islam against the futile attacks of blatant islamophobes.

What makes them hypocrites? That they're either secretly or openly hostile to Islam. They're only accepting toward what they think Islam could be if it was as corrupt as Christianity.

I say blatant islamophobes because perhaps over half of these defenders could actually be considered covert islamophobes themselves. They're accepting in any vague conversation, but as soon as an actual ruling of Islam is introduced to them from the Quran or the Sunnah, e.g. hijab is mandatory, 4 wives are permissable and modern dating is prohibited, they are, as a rule, somewhat shocked, uncomfortable and judgmental.

Don't confuse this with defending Muslims. That can be done even if one is openly hateful toward Islam. The problem comes precisely when the defender thinks or pretends they are defending Islam as a religion, when at the same time they are attempting (possibly unawares and by accident) to corrupt Muslims by leading some of them away from Islam.

You are already corrupted as you have no One Way of what the Sunnah and the related Hadith is. You are not One.
So I defend those Muslims, you don't defend. And in the process you can call me a blatant islamophobe. I accept that.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Non-Muslims who defend Islam against the futile attacks of blatant islamophobes.

What makes them hypocrites? That they're either secretly or openly hostile to Islam. They're only accepting toward what they think Islam could be if it was as corrupt as Christianity.

I say blatant islamophobes because perhaps over half of these defenders could actually be considered covert islamophobes themselves. They're accepting in any vague conversation, but as soon as an actual ruling of Islam is introduced to them from the Quran or the Sunnah, e.g. hijab is mandatory, 4 wives are permissable and modern dating is prohibited, they are, as a rule, somewhat shocked, uncomfortable and judgmental.

Don't confuse this with defending Muslims. That can be done even if one is openly hateful toward Islam. The problem comes precisely when the defender thinks or pretends they are defending Islam as a religion, when at the same time they are attempting (possibly unawares and by accident) to corrupt Muslims by leading some of them away from Islam.

Muslims don't even agree on those things, so it's ridiculous to suggest that acceptance of those things is the only valid opinion a Muslim may hold on those things, especially since those are social issues and not theological ones.

 

[exchemist]

Non-Muslims who defend Islam against the futile attacks of blatant islamophobes.

What makes them hypocrites? That they're either secretly or openly hostile to Islam. They're only accepting toward what they think Islam could be if it was as corrupt as Christianity.

I say blatant islamophobes because perhaps over half of these defenders could actually be considered covert islamophobes themselves. They're accepting in any vague conversation, but as soon as an actual ruling of Islam is introduced to them from the Quran or the Sunnah, e.g. hijab is mandatory, 4 wives are permissable and modern dating is prohibited, they are, as a rule, somewhat shocked, uncomfortable and judgmental.

Don't confuse this with defending Muslims. That can be done even if one is openly hateful toward Islam. The problem comes precisely when the defender thinks or pretends they are defending Islam as a religion, when at the same time they are attempting (possibly unawares and by accident) to corrupt Muslims by leading some of them away from Islam.

In effect, you arrogantly claim that only you are right and everyone else is wrong.

Who are you to lay down the law on what Islam says on a given topic? I have known many Muslims who would not agree with what you say, or who would at least be far less dogmatic about it.

There is a nasty strain of puritanical Islam about in the world today. Those of us who have lived long enough, and in enough places, are aware it has no valid claim to be the only version of this religion.

I take your sanctimonious hectoring with a pinch of salt.

 

[stvdv]

Non-Muslims who defend Islam against the futile attacks of blatant islamophobes.

What makes them hypocrites? That they're either secretly or openly hostile to Islam.

So, that is your opinion. Good to know.

I have a different opinion, but from your reply I can see, that it is of no use to elaborate.

 

[Rival]

You have open contempt of anything not hardline Islam, we get it. So at this point I'm not sure why you even bother with this forum.

 

[Fool]

Maybe a bit of criticism of Islam is a good thing? Sometimes change is not corruption, but cleansing.

I think that it is perfectly reasonable to support the right of people to follow a certain religion while also criticizing that religion.

it shouldn't be just a label that we wear but the actions we profess to uphold.


criticism is a good thing; when we are held to the standard. even a loving parent admonishes a wayward, or naive child with compassion. although the child may see it as a personal attack against their will, sometimes we have to intervene especially in dangerous circumstance.

 

[stvdv]

I say blatant islamophobes because perhaps over half of these defenders could actually be considered covert islamophobes themselves.

You do understand, I hope, that Islamophobe doesn't just happen when there would have been only "Love/Peace in the air". It originated because of Muslim actions. Can't blame it on us, non-Muslims. We just use our common sense. If cruelty is done in name of Islam, of course we become careful.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Non-Muslims who defend Islam against the futile attacks of blatant islamophobes.

What makes them hypocrites? That they're either secretly or openly hostile to Islam. They're only accepting toward what they think Islam could be if it was as corrupt as Christianity.

I say blatant islamophobes because perhaps over half of these defenders could actually be considered covert islamophobes themselves. They're accepting in any vague conversation, but as soon as an actual ruling of Islam is introduced to them from the Quran or the Sunnah, e.g. hijab is mandatory, 4 wives are permissable and modern dating is prohibited, they are, as a rule, somewhat shocked, uncomfortable and judgmental.

Don't confuse this with defending Muslims. That can be done even if one is openly hateful toward Islam. The problem comes precisely when the defender thinks or pretends they are defending Islam as a religion, when at the same time they are attempting (possibly unawares and by accident) to corrupt Muslims by leading some of them away from Islam.

I don't support Islam, because I oppose the combination of religion with government. The tendency in this world is for religion and politics to mix, and to me that is corruption of both. My dislike for this is learned from past combinations of religion and state. Maybe its inevitable, but people should not accept it.

When free speech advocates are confused by claims that there is no compulsion in Muslim religion, yes then they misunderstand. They misunderstand and are mislead. They aren't being hypocrites. The hypocrites are people who try to equate Islam with a pure religion as if it were not a political party for the purpose of getting it into democratic countries. It is so very political in nature.

 

[Harel13]

4 wives are permissable

So, like, this 4 wives thing - no more, right? If you have more wives, you're in violation of Islamic law, right?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You do understand, I hope, that Islamophobe doesn't just happen when there would have been only "Love/Peace in the air". It originated because of Muslim actions. Can't blame it on us, non-Muslims. We just use our common sense. If cruelty is done in name of Islam, of course we become careful.

That's like saying that Jews caused anti-Semitism.

 

[Rival]

That's like saying that Jews caused anti-Semitism.

I took it to be more like Westerners seeing things like Daesh and others and being too ignorant to realise that this isn't the 'True Islam' that these terrorist groups would have us believe. So they think that's a normal form of Islam. I'd rather compare it with people being wary of Christians because of groups like hardcore Evangelicals who want to stop people having abortions or getting SRS and other such groups.

 

[stvdv]

That's like saying that Jews caused anti-Semitism.

True. But sometimes it takes only 1 "rotten" apple to create this effect on others (negative news usually travels faster than positive news)

But true, I do believe in Karma (action and reaction)

But my main point was, that to blame us (non-Muslims) being Islamophobic might be lack of introspection

 

[syo]

e.g. hijab is mandatory

Mandatory??? Religion is a choice. Sorry.

 

[Harel13]

Mandatory??? Religion is a choice. Sorry.

In your view. Things tend to work a bit differently in the east.

 

[syo]

In your view. Things tend to work a bit differently in the east.

It strangles religious emotion and it creates enemies.