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Atheism and arrogance

Mock Turtle

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Trailblazer said:
I know that question was not directed at me, but I have seen it so I am answering.
The arrogance I have seen in some religious people made me want to find the kiosk so I could sign up for atheism. :rolleyes:

Regarding a particular Baha'i Law which has not even been implemented by the UHJ yet, a Baha'i said:

"The one who does not follow this teaching does not understand his or her proper relationship to God,"

Imagine that, someone telling me what my "proper relationship" with God is or what it should be.
And please note that he was responding to me but he did not do directly. :oops:
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Well arrogance isn't confined to the religious, I am well aware of that, but as per my religion tag, religion often produces such more readily - especially when one is commanded to believe, have faith, and often not question any particular doctrine.
 
Mock Turtle

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
PureX said:
None of those things are "set in stone". We continue to engage in those ideals and practices because we WANT TO. Because they still MAKE SENSE TO US. (Or to most of us.) Eventually, when they no longer make sense to us, or we no longer see any benefit in them, we will let them go ... like those bronze monuments to long dead rich guys who lost wars they never should have fought to begin with.

We create these things because they mean something to us at the time. They "work" for us. And we keep them around as long as they keep "working". And when they no longer are relevant, or functional, we will leave them to fall into the dust of history. Religions are very much like those monuments, only more universal, and much more functional, in both their good and bad ways. But it's WE who give them life, and relevance. And it's WE who keep them around for as long as we do. Religions are just courses of thought and action that we humans engage in to help us becomes who we think we want or ought to be. And the gods are just idealized representations of those goals.

The way to deal with these things is to try and get people to see that they are choosing those god-images, and that they need to do so carefully. Because those god images are reflections of their own most sacred ideals. And of who they are working to become.
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So I suppose the Taliban, ISIS, Evangelicals in the USA, etc. are not going by what was written in their particular texts - and taking it literally - and why we have so many different belief systems? It's like what, thousands of years, for change to occur, and the consequences of such (persecution), all because - it is written! This is the main issue with religions taking on the role of being our moral arbiters - and apparently based on some supernatural phenomena - they are just not open to rational debate/argument over such things - because - it is written. For all their benefits, they are often as much a drag on our progress.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Mock Turtle said:
Well arrogance isn't confined to the religious, I am well aware of that, but as per my religion tag, religion often produces such more readily - especially when one is commanded to believe, have faith, and often not question any particular doctrine.
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I will second that as I am dealing with some such religious people right now on another forum.
Some people are too haughty to even SEE that they are haughty and they use scriptures to support their haughtiness.. It's sad. :(

But it is not the religion that is the problem, it is the people IN the religion. It has always been that way.
 
Secret Chief

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
Piculet said:
Are atheists arrogant because they don't believe or do they not believe because they are arrogant?
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Piculet said:
Basically everyone has arrogance in them.
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Stop trying to move the goalposts. Or indeed trying to say the goalposts don't exist.

If you think your OP claim is correct then your second statement is undermining it.

If you think your second claim is correct then your first statement is undermining it. But then you have also claimed "I have not seen anyone who truly believes in one God and worships Him, being arrogant."

So which is it? "Athiests are arrogant whereas true believers are not arrogant" OR "We all have arrogance in us, including true believers, so I now realise I was mistaken in starting this divisive thread."
 
Piculet

Piculet

Active Member
Evangelicalhumanist said:
I know what they mean
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I doubt it. I'll say it just one more time to everyone: having arrogance is not the same as being arrogant.

You're just deviating from the topic by any means necessary. Anyway, there are atheists in this forum who have said they are more intelligent than believers. For some reason they haven't taken part in this thread much... And for some reason no one has a problem with them saying so. :rolleyes:
 
Mock Turtle

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Piculet said:
I doubt it. I'll say it just one more time to everyone: having arrogance is not the same as being arrogant.

You're just deviating from the topic by any means necessary. Anyway, there are atheists in this forum who have said they are more intelligent than believers. For some reason they haven't taken part in this thread much... And for some reason no one has a problem with them saying so. :rolleyes:
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Perhaps because they just can't be bothered with your crassness?
 
Heyo

Heyo

Veteran Member
Piculet said:
Not when I know they are prone to lie, even to themselves.
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Your projection gets stronger. Not only have you the nerve to call half of RF arrogant, now you also call them liars. And how can you do that? Because you can read the minds of dozens of people just by reading their posts?

Just one other question: what was your intention to put your OP in General Religious Debates? What did you expect?
 
Piculet

Piculet

Active Member
Heyo said:
Just one other question: what was your intention to put your OP in General Religious Debates? What did you expect?
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Discussion about whether atheists are arrogant because they don't believe or whether they don't believe because they're arrogant.
 
Mock Turtle

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Piculet said:
But they reply to me. Not to the other 'nice' people who say they are better than others.
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I'm not sure we have many examples of that. And I'm also not sure what you hope to achieve, since for many of us it does appear that you are trying to present a very unfavourable impression of Islam - of being very intolerant, rigid, and lacking in humility - which I doubt others , including myself, would see as being a true representation of how the majority of Muslims live their lives and which reflects their beliefs.
 
Piculet

Piculet

Active Member
ChristineM said:
You say you are better than others, true arrogance.
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Nope, never said that. Like I said – liars.
Mestemia said:
I suspect it has more to do with they are looking for intelligent discourse and knew based on the OP that this thread would not offer one.
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But everyone's here making sure no one gets to discuss the actual topic because it is so true.
Mestemia said:
Thus far in this thread it has been you have shown a weak understanding of the English language.
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See? Passive aggressive again. That's why I don't reply to you.
Mock Turtle said:
representation of how the majority of Muslims live their live
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That's not the same as Islam. Islam is not defined by Muslims, it is defined by God.
 
McBell

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
Piculet said:
See? Passive aggressive again. That's why I don't reply to you.
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It is a statement of fact.
That you are more interested in avoiding your own OP topic is on you, not anyone else.

You made a bold empty claim in your OP and refuse to support it beyond a generic quote from the Koran.

Hells bells, you have thus far even denied you even made a claim.
How is one to have a discussion about a claim you completely deny even making?
 
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