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Atheism and arrogance

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
ecco said:
I have not seen anyone who truly believes in one God and worships Him, being arrogant.​


It was not I (ecco) that said that. It was...
My apologies.
Not sure how that happened.

I have fixed it though.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Are atheists arrogant because they don't believe or do they not believe because they are arrogant?

I believe the latter is the correct view.

Qur'an 7:146 "Those who behave arrogantly on the earth in defiance of right - them will I turn away from My signs: Even if they see all the signs, they will not believe in them; and if they see the way of right conduct, they will not adopt it as the way; but if they see the way of error, that is the way they will adopt. For they have rejected our signs, and failed to take warning from them."
hasty generalization fallacy
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
You are doing a good impression of being a troll even if that is not your intention (and perhaps you will get banned),
I sincerely hope that he doesn't get banned.

How are the rest of us supposed to learn about Islam if solid Muslims don't post what they learned from Islam?
Tom
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Another attempt to deviate from the actual topic.

How pray tell is fact based on your arrogence and ignorance as displayed in the OP an attempt to deviate?

I think more likely that the fact will not be accepted by your good self
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Are atheists arrogant because they don't believe or do they not believe because they are arrogant?

I believe the latter is the correct view.

Qur'an 7:146 "Those who behave arrogantly on the earth in defiance of right - them will I turn away from My signs: Even if they see all the signs, they will not believe in them; and if they see the way of right conduct, they will not adopt it as the way; but if they see the way of error, that is the way they will adopt. For they have rejected our signs, and failed to take warning from them."
Whybdo theists often hate atheists to the point they obsess over atheists and draw up all sorts of imaginative and fanciful and fallacious conclusions about them?
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
I sincerely hope that he doesn't get banned.

How are the rest of us supposed to learn about Islam if solid Muslims don't post what they learned from Islam?
Tom

Well I wouldn't ban any - just ignore them when they are so blatantly ill-informed and having the expected amount of knowledge that goes with such. Witness the thread on homosexuality - which I didn't bother with.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Logically, it would be exactly as arrogant to presume that God exists as it would be to presume that God does not exist. So theism is just as arrogant as atheism in that regard.

However, most theists (perhaps not "Piculet") do not presume to know that their God exists, so much as they choose to hope and trust (place their faith in) the idea that the God of their understanding does exist. So that they can then gain the benefits of "living as if" it were so. This is an advantage that atheists do not have, and that most atheists are unable and/or unwilling to even recognize. In that sense, I feel that atheists are being unreasonably 'arrogant'; though they aren't really harming anyone in this arrogance, but themselves. As opposed to those somewhat rare, but annoyingly loud and arrogant theists who falsely presume to know that their God exists, and then try to force that presumption on everything and everyone around them.
 

`mud

Just old
Premium Member
Too many adjectives here for a real old one,
but arrogance doesn't leave the body, post/death.
And no-one will know it, then, and now.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Well I wouldn't ban any - just ignore them when they are so blatantly ill-informed and having the expected amount of knowledge that goes with such. Witness the thread on homosexuality - which I didn't bother with.
I don't ignore Muslims, I learn from them. And I have developed an opinion about Islam based on what Muslims teach on the subject. Muslims like the OP, but also the other Muslims who don't contradict him. Those Muslims also teach me about Islam.
Tom
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Logically, it would be exactly as arrogant to presume that God exists as it would be to presume that God does not exist. So theism is just as arrogant as atheism in that regard.

However, most theists (perhaps not "Piculet") do not presume to know that their God exists, so much as they choose to hope and trust (place their faith in) the idea that the God of their understanding does exist. So that they can then gain the benefits of "living as if" it were so. This is an advantage that atheists do not have, and that most atheists are unable and/or unwilling to even recognize. In that sense, I feel that atheists are being unreasonably 'arrogant'; though they aren't really harming anyone in this arrogance, but themselves. As opposed to those somewhat rare, but annoyingly loud and arrogant theists who falsely presume to know that their God exists, and then try to force that presumption on everything and everyone around them.

The advantages appear to be with the atheists. Not so much anti-homosexuality from them, as per many other issues, so I don't know where that came from. Atheists have to live with constructing their own reality - which is a harder task than getting it handed down to them, and one that might be just as wrong as any other.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
Are atheists arrogant because they don't believe or do they not believe because they are arrogant?

I believe the latter is the correct view.

Qur'an 7:146 "Those who behave arrogantly on the earth in defiance of right - them will I turn away from My signs: Even if they see all the signs, they will not believe in them; and if they see the way of right conduct, they will not adopt it as the way; but if they see the way of error, that is the way they will adopt. For they have rejected our signs, and failed to take warning from them."

If requiring verifiable evidence for fantastical claims in some way makes me 'arrogant' in your eyes, so be it. I'm also 'arrogant' when it comes to believing in magical pixies as well as little green men from Mars.

Does your 'arrogance' ever require you to be presented with verifiable evidence before you'll believe something? Or do you simply accept any fantastical claim that anyone makes?
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
I think he was on homosexuality - history of such, for example.
That's just one issue.

And not even the one this thread is about.

He has taught me a good deal about Islam, although not much I didn't already know. He just reinforced my opinions about his religious world view.
Not just on this thread either.

I see him as a solid Muslim and well explains why most people find Islam immoral.

Tom
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Another attempt to deviate from the actual topic. :)

It seems you are starting from the ignorant presumption that creating the whole universe was a hard or great task for its creator. ;)
But it's you who is presumptuous. You're presuming an intentional creator. Your whole world-view is based on this presumption.


I have, but I have been thinking it could be caused by their lack of belief in one God. I have seen those who worship Jesus as God, being arrogant. I have seen those who give divinity to human beings, being arrogant. I have seen the superstitious being arrogant. I have not seen anyone who truly believes in one God and worships Him, being arrogant.
How are you defining arrogant? Atheists simply don't believe in a claim without evidence. They're not proselytizing. They're not pushing any particular belief on anyone.

It's you making unevidenced claim and pushing unevidenced beliefs.
 
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