Drinking Poison

[Left Coast]

While the Christian Scripture states that among the signs that will be displayed by those who believe is that they shall drink poison and it shall not harm them, Islam teaches that this is not a necessary sign of Faith, nevertheless, those individuals with a high degree of faith may drink poison as a demonstration of the veracity of our Religion and the truth of the Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم

How does drinking poison and not dying demonstrate "the veracity of your religion" or "the truth of the Prophet Muhammad"?

If I start a religion right now, and declare that my followers won't die if they drink poison, and then one of them drinks poison and doesn't die - does that demonstrate that their survival had anything to do with my or their religion?

 

[stvdv]

Yes he survived, and yes it was real poison. Not only did he survive, he never felt any pain or sickness. As you can see in the video, he drank a good amount of the poison.

I believe it is possible to drink poison and nothing happens, as I tried many times myself.
But when I see a youtube, knowing it's all about likes, I doubt if they cheat; make it up.

So, how do you know it was real poison? The Christian woman mentioned it should be tested
Did they test it, and how you know? Or do they mention it in the original long 2h youtube?

 

[stvdv]

Two questions come to mind.

1) Who verified that what he drank was actually poison?

2) Are you aware that by taking small doses of a poison over long period of time that people can develop a tolerance for said poison?

A far more convincing demonstration would be if he were to drink some kind of a deadly poison that someone else provided.

I agree
Those 2 questions + the more convincing demonstration you mention, I also had in mind.

 

[epronovost]

Yes he survived, and yes it was real poison. Not only did he survive, he never felt any pain or sickness. As you can see in the video, he drank a good amount of the poison.

First, are you sure there was poison in there? What's your evidences that it was? It might as well have been a trick to confound his adversary in a debate.

Second, the dosage makes the poison and in the case of rat poison, arsenic being the most popular, it can take hours or even days before taking its toll if taken in relatively small dosage and it's also possible to develop a resistence to poison by regular exposure.

Third, the conclusion doesn't follow the argument. If the passage quoted is indeed something that was added, then this is evidence that the Bible "has been corrupted" in some way.

If we assume that everything in the above is completely true, the man resisting the poison proves the passage isn't a corrupted addition, but the genuine thing, thus beating his own argument that the Bible has been corrupted.

 

[stvdv]

How does drinking poison and not dying demonstrate "the veracity of your religion" or "the truth of the Prophet Muhammad"?

IMO:
IF you have a deadly poison and a large test group, and all the religious people stay alive, and the others die, then I take it as proof.
But of course you don't get a large group willing to participate to try it out. So, it will just be "belief" and no fact.

Of course you can try out yourself. I tried maybe 10 times and did not die. BUT I also know that it is the Grace of my Guru, that I didn't die.

So, if you challenge God in this way, I would not be surprised that God might let them all die, as there is a lot of ego involved.
IF you do it yourself, as a personal test, or because "God" told you, that's a different story IMO. But it can also be a test if you use common sense.

I have been to Christian meetings with a faith healer. Once I took my neighbor who broke her back. She did not believe in it, but I was kept bugging her to go, and finally she went. And she got healed. But out of the 10 times I went, she was the only one that got healed.

So, I think it is safe to conclude, that God does not always heal, and most of the time people might die when drinking poison.
But if you drink poison and you do not die, then I belief it is God's Grace (but it must be a deadly poison of course)

 

[Rational Agnostic]

باسمك اللهم​

"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." (Mark 16:17-18)

Our Muslim scholar, Shaykh Asrar Rashid, recently had a debate with two Christians. During that debate, he challenged them to perform these signs mentioned in the passage I quoted. One of them responded that this passage is an interpolation, not found in the earliest manuscripts, and thus unintentionally handed the Shaykh a victory in the debate, that the Bible has been corrupted and not the Holy Quran. The other Christian, however, a lady who could not speak English very well (the Shaykh challenged her to speak in "new tongues"), countered by challenging him to drink poison. Without hesitation, he picked up the rat poison he had purchased intending to give it to the Christians to drink as part of the challenge mentioned in Mark, and drank it himself!
Startlingly, he was not at all harmed, demonstrating the manifest power of his faith and his Religion.

The Christians were dumbfounded. Here is the clip from that debate:

This didn't demonstrate jack ****.

 

[Left Coast]

IMO:
IF you have a deadly poison and a large test group, and all the religious people stay alive, and the others die, then I take it as proof.

Proof of what? That their religion is true?

You'd have to rule out other explanations.

 

[1213]

"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." (Mark 16:17-18)​

...

I believe that God can protect from all evil, but I don’t think people should tempt God in such way.

Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
Matt. 4:5-7

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

The Christians were dumbfounded.

Maybe he's a half-decent human being and never intended on poisoning anyone - so he brought fake poison in case the Christians were crazy enough to drink the poison. This is actually quite brilliant - because if they did drink and suffered no effects, he could let them in on the secret that it wasn't poisoned, and inform them that nothing miraculous happened. But if they didn't drink, but challenged him instead (as did happen, apparently), he could drink knowing he would not be harmed.

Sounds a lot more plausible than that his "faith" protected him.

 

[Harel13]

While the Christian Scripture states that among the signs that will be displayed by those who believe is that they shall drink poison and it shall not harm them, Islam teaches that this is not a necessary sign of Faith, nevertheless, those individuals with a high degree of faith may drink poison as a demonstration of the veracity of our Religion and the truth of the Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم

So it is mentioned in our books of history and Hadith that one of the great companions of the Prophet, a man named Khalid bin Walid رضى الله عنه, whom the Prophet named "Sword of God", drank some poison for this purpose. Before he drank it, he made this supplication:

بسم الله وبالله رب الأرض ورب السماء الذي لا يضر مع اسمه داء
"In the Name of Allah, and by Allah, Lord of Earth and Lord of Heaven, in Whose Name no deadly thing or illness can cause harm"

And miraculously he was not harmed.

So while Christians may debate on the scripture in Mark, whether or not it is genuine, and they may debate on the subject of cessationism, whether the gifts of the Holy Spirit like prophesy and speaking in tongues continue after the apostolic age, our Religion rejects cessationism, and our Shaykh, Asrar Rashid, revived the practice of Khalid bin Walid.

Didn't Muhammad eventually die from eating poison?

 

[Koldo]

In my understanding the Muslim had his faith strong enough to not be harmed by the poison I have heard about this in other situations too, where the believer was unharmed because of the faith and of his religious practice was good enough to be able to withstand the poison.

I have a bridge to well to you. A great deal.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I have a bridge to well to you. A great deal.

What?

 

[Koldo]

What?

I meant 'sell'.

The Brooklyn Bridge. Me and my friend George Parker are willing to sell it to you. It is on sale for a bargain.

 

[Rival]

Didn't Muhammad eventually die from eating poison?

So the story goes; a Jewish woman poisoned his food after he & his troops slaughtered her family. He didn't die at once but in prolonged pain and had to be carried around.

 

[Harel13]

So the story goes; a Jewish woman poisoned his food after he & his troops slaughtered her family. He didn't die at once but in prolonged pain and had to be carried around.

Yeah, I know. And so we have the historically ironic Islamic expression: ""Khaybar, Khaybar, Ya Yahud! Jaish Muhammad Sawfa Ya'ud!" ("Khaybar, Khaybar, O Jews! The Army of Muhammad Will Return!"), to which we can answer: "Anachnu Nechakeh Lachem Sham..." "We'll be waiting for you...").

Did you watch the same video I saw yesterday on the subject?

 

[Rival]

Yeah, I know. And so we have the historically ironic Islamic expression: ""Khaybar, Khaybar, Ya Yahud! Jaish Muhammad Sawfa Ya'ud!" ("Khaybar, Khaybar, O Jews! The Army of Muhammad Will Return!"), to which we can answer: "Anachnu Nechakeh Lachem Sham..." "We'll be waiting for you...").

Did you watch the same video I saw yesterday on the subject?

No, which? I've known this for a long while. I did a lot of research on Islam when I was 15 and beyond, so a lot of this and various stories from the ahadith have stayed with me. I don't actually believe many of them are real, though, but that's another conversation.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I meant 'sell'.

The Brooklyn Bridge. Me and my friend George Parker are willing to sell it to you. It is on sale for a bargain.

I still have no idea why you say this in a thread about drinking poison. Has nothing to do with any of what I have said in this thread.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I swallowed a tack, once. It was bronze, so it probably had some tin in it.

 

[Koldo]

I still have no idea why you say this in a thread about drinking poison. Has nothing to do with any of what I have said in this thread.

It is an old joke...
But since you don't get the reference: If you believe someone's faith can be strong enough to prevent them dying from poison, you might as well believe I am the owner of the Brooklyn Bridge.

 

[Left Coast]

So the story goes; a Jewish woman poisoned his food after he & his troops slaughtered her family. He didn't die at once but in prolonged pain and had to be carried around.

Is there good evidence for that? I'm seeing it reported by a few Muslim sites but not from any mainstream or academic sources. Those all just say he "fell ill." I question whether it's just a contrived anti-Semitic story.