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Where's the wrong in cross-dressing?

PureX

Veteran Member
But we can always work towards that kind of society that we would wish to see.
But we all wish to see it our own way. So we're working at cross-purposes unless we're willing to let go of our own ideals and desires, to work for collective functionality and well-being. But very few humans are ever willing or even able to grasp that concept.
 

The_Fisher_King

Trying to bring myself ever closer to Allah
Premium Member
But we all wish to see it our own way. So we're working at cross-purposes unless we're willing to let go of our own ideals and desires, to work for collective functionality and well-being. But very few humans are ever willing or even able to grasp that concept.

It is just possible that some of us genuinely believe that the ideals we work for have the best interests of our collective wellbeing at heart.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
It is just possible that some of us genuinely believe that the ideals we work for have the best interests of our collective well being at heart.
Oh, pretty much everyone thinks their right. For sure. Especially when "right" happens to coincide with their own personal desires. But that doesn't change the fact that when we all want things our own way, and we "work to make it happen", we end up infringing someone else's contrary desire. And I really don't know how to convince anyone that it might be in their own best interest to relinquish some of their own desires to accommodate those of others. But that's what really has to happen if we ever want to achieve that truly free and equal society that we think we want. We have to start seeing the desires of others as being of equal importance to our own. And so far I see no indication of any significant willingness to do this.
 

The_Fisher_King

Trying to bring myself ever closer to Allah
Premium Member
Oh, pretty much everyone thinks their right. For sure. Especially when "right" happens to coincide with their own personal desires. But that doesn't change the fact that when we all want things our own way, and we "work to make it happen", we end up infringing someone else's contrary desire. And I really don't know how to convince anyone that it might be in their own best interest to relinquish some of their own desires to accommodate those of others. But that's what really has to happen if we ever want to achieve that truly free and equal society that we think we want. We have to start seeing the desires of others as being of equal importance to our own. And so far I see no indication of any significant willingness to do this.

If we each work for the different kinds of society we wish to see, sure, it's inevitable that we're going to disagree on things along the way, but it's also possible that some compromise might in time be reached.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
If we each work for the different kinds of society we wish to see, sure, it's inevitable that we're going to disagree on things along the way, but it's also possible that some compromise might in time be reached.
I think the real choice is between competition and cooperation. If we're all competing with each other to get what we each need and want, the result will inevitably be contention, animosity and oppression. Whereas if we all cooperate to make sure everyone gets what they need, and let what we want become a secondary concern, we'll all get much more of both, without all the strife and suffering.
 

The_Fisher_King

Trying to bring myself ever closer to Allah
Premium Member
I think the real choice is between competition and cooperation. If we're all competing with each other to get what we each need and want, the result will inevitably be contention, animosity and oppression. Whereas if we all cooperate to make sure everyone gets what they need, and let what we want become a secondary concern, we'll all get much more of both, without all the strife and suffering.

Some competition is inevitable and not a necessarily bad thing to my mind, but I broadly agree. The tricky bit is distinguishing needs from wants, particularly when it comes to freedoms.
 

Sand Dancer

Crazy Cat Lady
I agree. However with men, instead of appearance, they are judged based upon the success of their career. And expected to provide.

True. Both genders are pressured to conform in one way or another. Women are able to express affection together but men typically are not. Silly.
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
It's almost as if traditional gender roles can be harmful to people.

I'd dare say that the LGBTQ+ community would be better at the dating game than traditonal relationships if it wasn't for the amount of bed hopping unfortunately plaguing that community. I even wonder if the divorce rate would be lower.
 
It is contrary to God Almighty's instruction. ( Deuteronomy 22:5) Doing differently-in all manner-constitutes rebellion against Him. If we do not live in harmony with Him, our prayers will not be answered and we condemn ourselves. Compare: Proverbs 15:8, 29; 28:9; 59:12; Isaiah 1:15-20; 48:17-19; 55:8, 9.
 

Tambourine

Well-Known Member
It is contrary to God Almighty's instruction. ( Deuteronomy 22:5) Doing differently-in all manner-constitutes rebellion against Him. If we do not live in harmony with Him, our prayers will not be answered and we condemn ourselves. Compare: Proverbs 15:8, 29; 28:9; 59:12; Isaiah 1:15-20; 48:17-19; 55:8, 9.
So is wearing clothes made of different kinds of threads.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It is contrary to God Almighty's instruction. ( Deuteronomy 22:5) Doing differently-in all manner-constitutes rebellion against Him. If we do not live in harmony with Him, our prayers will not be answered and we condemn ourselves. Compare: Proverbs 15:8, 29; 28:9; 59:12; Isaiah 1:15-20; 48:17-19; 55:8, 9.
But what does the Bible have to do with anything? It's just an anthology of ancient writing. There are many others with different rules.
Is your moral development so juvenile that purpose or consequences have no place in it? Have you just picked an ancient set of rules and followed them blindly?
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Didn't most men back then wear dresses or skirts, ie: tunics?
Were they in the wrong, or are we, who've abandoned them?

I assume Mark La Buda, being a bible believer, wears a dress.

iu

Mens Burgundy Roman Tunic Adult Toga Greek Warrior Gladiator Fancy Dress Costume | eBay
 

Tambourine

Well-Known Member
As far as I know, the Roman legions were the first people of the Mediterranean region to switch from tunics to trousers, I believe around the 2nd or 3rd century AD. However, one could argue that pants had been known among the ancient horse nomads of Scythia and Sarmatia for a few centuries before that.

In general, people who ride horses tend to favor wearing pants, for reasons that are probably intuitive to anyone who has ever ridden a horse in a skirt or dress.


Of course, the manliest clothes of all are puffy shirts, tights, and high heels.
540px-Louis_XIV_of_France.jpg
 

Tambourine

Well-Known Member
Please, do not make this personal or a contest. I related what is written in the Bible. Who are you actually challenging?
As I said, the Bible also condemns people who wear cloth made from two different kinds of threads.
How do you suggest people in the fashion industry ought to deal with that?
 
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oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
I know, another 'clothing-related' thread on my part! But clothing norms do seem to play a large part in cultures and societies around the world, and that interests me.

I'm defining 'cross-dressing' here the same way that Wikipedia does in its opening sentence on the topic, to wit: 'Cross-dressing is the act of wearing items of clothing and other accoutrements commonly associated with the opposite sex within a particular society.'

If you feel there's wrong in it, why is that?
I've worn thigh boots for 60+ years.

That's what we once called them.... but now everybody has to call them waders, although waders rise up to the waste. It's all very confusing!
 
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