Who is the Baha’i Jesus and how does He differ from the Christian Jesus?

[TransmutingSoul]

Adam also didn't have a biological father, and the Bible calls God Adams father in the lineage.

Personally I see the Virgin Birth, the Title of Christ (Annointed One) and the Station of Son of God were all given of Jesus so we can clearly see that God's Manifestations are not born of the Flesh, that even though they appear to be men like us when born of a mother in this realm, they are not, they are of the Holy Spirit, they are One and All, the 'First and the Last' , the 'I Am'. All given of Allah.

As such if we had learnt that lesson, I wonder if more would have accepted Muhammad as a Messenger and would have Muslims been better prepared for this day knowing the Last is applicable to all God's Messengers and does not mean the end of the Messengers?

Time will be the only judge now.

I wish you and all well and happy in these times.

Regards Tony

 

[1213]

I believe you can say the word trinity is not there but the concept is.

I don’t think the concept is there either. But, perhaps you could show it, if you think it is there?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

So are you claiming that God commanded himself to be called "My Father" but the prophets defied Gods commandment by not calling him "My Father"? So the prophets defied Gods commandment?

No, reading Jeremiah 3:19 in context, it does not seem to indicate that the Prophets before Jesus were Calling God, "the Father".

Here I copy for you the whole thing:

1“If a man divorces his wife

and she leaves him and marries another man,

should he return to her again?

Would not the land be completely defiled?

But you have lived as a prostitute with many lovers—

would you now return to me?”

declares the Lord.

2“Look up to the barren heights and see.

Is there any place where you have not been ravished?

By the roadside you sat waiting for lovers,

sat like a nomad in the desert.

You have defiled the land

with your prostitution and wickedness.

3Therefore the showers have been withheld,

and no spring rains have fallen.

Yet you have the brazen look of a prostitute;

you refuse to blush with shame.

4Have you not just called to me:

‘My Father, my friend from my youth,

5will you always be angry?

Will your wrath continue forever?’

This is how you talk,

but you do all the evil you can.”

Unfaithful Israel

6During the reign of King Josiah, the Lord said to me, “Have you seen what faithless Israel has done? She has gone up on every high hill and under every spreading tree and has committed adultery there. 7I thought that after she had done all this she would return to me but she did not, and her unfaithful sister Judah saw it. 8I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce and sent her away because of all her adulteries. Yet I saw that her unfaithful sister Judah had no fear; she also went out and committed adultery. 9Because Israel’s immorality mattered so little to her, she defiled the land and committed adultery with stone and wood. 10In spite of all this, her unfaithful sister Judah did not return to me with all her heart, but only in pretense,” declares the Lord.

11The Lord said to me, “Faithless Israel is more righteous than unfaithful Judah. 12Go, proclaim this message toward the north:

“ ‘Return, faithless Israel,’ declares the Lord,

‘I will frown on you no longer,

for I am faithful,’ declares the Lord,

‘I will not be angry forever.

13Only acknowledge your guilt—

you have rebelled against the Lord your God,

you have scattered your favors to foreign gods

under every spreading tree,

and have not obeyed me,’ ”

declares the Lord.

14“Return, faithless people,” declares the Lord, “for I am your husband. I will choose you—one from a town and two from a clan—and bring you to Zion. 15Then I will give you shepherds after my own heart, who will lead you with knowledge and understanding. 16In those days, when your numbers have increased greatly in the land,” declares the Lord, “people will no longer say, ‘The ark of the covenant of the Lord.’ It will never enter their minds or be remembered; it will not be missed, nor will another one be made. 17At that time they will call Jerusalem The Throne of the Lord, and all nations will gather in Jerusalem to honor the name of the Lord. No longer will they follow the stubbornness of their evil hearts. 18In those days the people of Judah will join the people of Israel, and together they will come from a northern land to the land I gave your ancestors as an inheritance.

19“I myself said,

“ ‘How gladly would I treat you like my children

and give you a pleasant land,

the most beautiful inheritance of any nation.’

I thought you would call me ‘Father’

and not turn away from following me.

20But like a woman unfaithful to her husband,

so you, Israel, have been unfaithful to me,”

declares the Lord.

 

[CG Didymus]

Adam also didn't have a biological father, and the Bible calls God Adams father in the lineage.

But do Baha'is believe God created Adam out of dirt? I don't think they do because they believe in some type of evolution. So then, if he was the first "human" his parents were some type of ape? And if he wasn't the first human, then God didn't have to create him. So what are Baha'is trying to say?

 

[CG Didymus]

No, reading Jeremiah 3:19 in context, it does not seem to indicate that the Prophets before Jesus were Calling God, "the Father".

Here I copy for you the whole thing:

1“If a man divorces his wife

and she leaves him and marries another man,

should he return to her again?

Would not the land be completely defiled?

But you have lived as a prostitute with many lovers—

would you now return to me?”

declares the Lord.

2“Look up to the barren heights and see.

Is there any place where you have not been ravished?

By the roadside you sat waiting for lovers,

sat like a nomad in the desert.

You have defiled the land

with your prostitution and wickedness.

3Therefore the showers have been withheld,

and no spring rains have fallen.

Yet you have the brazen look of a prostitute;

you refuse to blush with shame.

4Have you not just called to me:

‘My Father, my friend from my youth,

5will you always be angry?

Will your wrath continue forever?’

This is how you talk,

but you do all the evil you can.”

Unfaithful Israel

6During the reign of King Josiah, the Lord said to me, “Have you seen what faithless Israel has done? She has gone up on every high hill and under every spreading tree and has committed adultery there. 7I thought that after she had done all this she would return to me but she did not, and her unfaithful sister Judah saw it. 8I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce and sent her away because of all her adulteries. Yet I saw that her unfaithful sister Judah had no fear; she also went out and committed adultery. 9Because Israel’s immorality mattered so little to her, she defiled the land and committed adultery with stone and wood. 10In spite of all this, her unfaithful sister Judah did not return to me with all her heart, but only in pretense,” declares the Lord.

11The Lord said to me, “Faithless Israel is more righteous than unfaithful Judah. 12Go, proclaim this message toward the north:

“ ‘Return, faithless Israel,’ declares the Lord,

‘I will frown on you no longer,

for I am faithful,’ declares the Lord,

‘I will not be angry forever.

13Only acknowledge your guilt—

you have rebelled against the Lord your God,

you have scattered your favors to foreign gods

under every spreading tree,

and have not obeyed me,’ ”

declares the Lord.

14“Return, faithless people,” declares the Lord, “for I am your husband. I will choose you—one from a town and two from a clan—and bring you to Zion. 15Then I will give you shepherds after my own heart, who will lead you with knowledge and understanding. 16In those days, when your numbers have increased greatly in the land,” declares the Lord, “people will no longer say, ‘The ark of the covenant of the Lord.’ It will never enter their minds or be remembered; it will not be missed, nor will another one be made. 17At that time they will call Jerusalem The Throne of the Lord, and all nations will gather in Jerusalem to honor the name of the Lord. No longer will they follow the stubbornness of their evil hearts. 18In those days the people of Judah will join the people of Israel, and together they will come from a northern land to the land I gave your ancestors as an inheritance.

19“I myself said,

“ ‘How gladly would I treat you like my children

and give you a pleasant land,

the most beautiful inheritance of any nation.’

I thought you would call me ‘Father’

and not turn away from following me.

20But like a woman unfaithful to her husband,

so you, Israel, have been unfaithful to me,”

declares the Lord.

I just goggled it and this came up. I didn't check the context. See what you think.
Isaiah 63:16 16But you are our Father, though Abraham does not know us or Israel acknowledge us; you, LORD, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name

 

[CG Didymus]

This is what I asked...

Krishna is, as I recall, the eighth incarnation/manifestation. Why ignore those others? Then, I think number ten is Kalki, who I'd assume Baha'is say is Baha'u'llah, so between all the other manifestations between Krishna and Baha'u'llah... is number nine? And why are all the others not mentioned?

How does this answer it?

Jesus made that easy, By Their Fruits you will know them.

A lot of the original teachings from many of God's Messengers have been lost.

You may like to see this, a Baha'i wrote to the Universal House of Justice about the future governments of the world.

The writings of our Faith make it clear that under a Bahá’í system the rights of minorities must always be respected and upheld.

There is no reference in the writings stating that every single person will become Bahá’í, but at least half of them will. Rúḥíyyih Khánum used to say that Shoghi Effendi was asked this question quite often by pilgrims. He would answer by saying that, in this Dispensation, the totality of the peoples of the world will not become Bahá’ís, but the majority will.

This seems to indicate that the nature of government in each country will be different, and the NSA of each country will not be in charge."

Yes, that is interesting. So the Baha'i Faith will be the majority but will treat minority religious people very nicely. How will those minority religious people treat the Baha'i's and those in power, though? Being in the minority what power will they have? They can't elect anybody. They'll have to obey laws put in place by the Baha'i majority... or, they'll have to set up their own government in their own nation.

 

[CG Didymus]

This is what I asked...

So good old, very old, Noah. His age literal or figurative or fictional? The flood... literal, mythical or symbolic? And, since Adam, Noah, Abraham and Moses are all patriarchs of Judaism why make them all "manifestations" As asked before, the Biblical accounts of them do not describe people that were "perfectly" polished mirrors... one of the definitions, and a very important one, of a manifestation? Then, do Baha'is believe the stories written about them in the Bible are literally true? If not, then what do we really know about them? Nothing... but now, because of Baha'u'llah, we know one thing about them... they were all manifestations of God.

And this is your answer?

That is indeed how the Baha'i Jesus differs from the Christian Jesus.

We also see the promise has been kept and is being fulfilled as we speak.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I just goggled it and this came up. I didn't check the context. See what you think.
Isaiah 63:16 16But you are our Father, though Abraham does not know us or Israel acknowledge us; you, LORD, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name

I just quoted what Abdulbaha wrote:


"...but as Christ found existence through the Spirit of God, He called Himself the Son of God. "

Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 62-66


The idea that God is like a Father, can be seen in Hebrew Bible, but as far as I know, other prophets did not say "I am son of God", or "My Father is God". Had They said, I believe it would be true.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

But do Baha'is believe God created Adam out of dirt? I don't think they do because they believe in some type of evolution. So then, if he was the first "human" his parents were some type of ape? And if he wasn't the first human, then God didn't have to create him. So what are Baha'is trying to say?

Bahais would say, story of Adam and Eve is symbolic. There was a Manifestation of God, who lived about 6000 years ago though. But before Adam, there were Prophets, though they are not recorded in History, as the modes of writing was different in old ages.

 

[CG Didymus]

I couldn't help but notice that myself.
Nothing resembling it.

Monotheistic Trinitarianism was one of the assorted irrational teachings I was indoctrinated with as a child.
I fully expected to find an explanation from Jesus, once I got hold of a Bible for myself. Turned out the opposite, Jesus never said anything like that. That's about when I realized that religion is fiction.
Tom

The Baha'is agree with you. They say Jesus is not God. So does what the Baha'is say about Jesus make any sense to you?

 

[CG Didymus]

Krishna (/ˈkrɪʃnə/,[6] Sanskrit pronunciation: [ˈkɽɪʂɳɐ]; Sanskrit: कृष्ण, IAST: Kṛṣṇa) is a major deity in Hinduism. He is worshipped as the eighth avatar of the god Vishnu and also as the supreme God in his own right.[7] He is the god of compassion, tenderness, love

Baha'is don't believe he is an incarnation of a God.

Krishna - has a religion

Hinduism was before Krishna and some forms of Hinduism don't follow him.

And come to think of it - I haven't touched Buddha and the rest yet.

Yes, Baha'is have to make Buddha into a teacher of the one God. I've heard some Baha'is say "originally" Buddha taught that there is only one God... but... conveniently, those teachings are gone, or they never existed. Yes, Why bother? To the Baha'is. Why not accept religions as they are? Why force to conform to Baha'i beliefs?

Why bother, be happy as you are.

No one wants to change your views.

Hmmm? A debate section on a forum about religion? Yes, let's bother. I want to hear what MJFlores has to say. Besides, if Baha'is believe all the other religions have misinterpreted their Scriptures, then we better bother and talk about it.

 

[CG Didymus]

I just quoted what Abdulbaha wrote:


"...but as Christ found existence through the Spirit of God, He called Himself the Son of God. "

Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 62-66


The idea that God is like a Father, can be seen in Hebrew Bible, but as far as I know, other prophets did not say "I am son of God", or "My Father is God". Had They said, I believe it would be true.

But some say they are incarnations of a God? Is that true in the same sense... a symbolic sense?

 

[CG Didymus]

Have a read and meditate in what they offer CG.

Only in that way is it our own journey.

Regards Tony

What are some references to what Baha'is believe about Adam. I've read a couple, one of them was in SAQ.

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't know why you people could make a simple thing so complicated.

It is NOT the Baha'is who are making a simple thing complicated, it is those (usually Christians) who are trying to make the Baha'i Faith look bad....

I am not really that dumb, I have an MA in Psychology. Christians don't like the IDEA of progressive revelation because it means that humanity has progressed beyond Christianity.

Only a Christian would go to the trouble to posts all kinds of rubbish, hoping that unsuspecting readers who do not really know much about the Baha'i Faith will bite...

But trying to knock down the Baha'i Faith is not going to help the cause of Christianity.

Progressive Revelation is really quite simple.

Progressive revelation is a core teaching in the Bahá'í Faith that suggests that religious truth is revealed by God progressively and cyclically over time through a series of divine Messengers, and that the teachings are tailored to suit the needs of the time and place of their appearance.[1][2] Thus, the Bahá'í teachings recognize the divine origin of several world religions as different stages in the history of one religion, while believing that the revelation of Bahá'u'lláh is the most recent (though not the last—that there will never be a last), and therefore the most relevant to modern society.[1 ]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_revelation_Baha'i

This teaching is an interaction of simpler teachings and their implications. The basic concept relates closely to Bahá'í views on God's essential unity, and the nature of prophets, termed Manifestations of God. It also ties into Bahá'í views of the purpose and nature of religion, laws, belief, culture and history. Hence revelation is seen as both progressive and continuous, and therefore never ceases.[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_revelation_Baha'i

 

[Trailblazer]

And come to think of it - I haven't touched Buddha and the rest yet.

Too bad that will never help bring Christianity back to its former glory.
But you sure made an effort.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes, that is interesting. So the Baha'i Faith will be the majority but will treat minority religious people very nicely. How will those minority religious people treat the Baha'i's and those in power, though? Being in the minority what power will they have? They can't elect anybody. They'll have to obey laws put in place by the Baha'i majority... or, they'll have to set up their own government in their own nation.

Only the future can know, as we are yet to envisage such a day.

Be anxiously concerned of the needs of our day was what Baha'u'llah suggested.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

It has naught to do with me and most likely more people face a bigger challenge because of what I say.

Yes, it's tough being a representative of a religion.

It is up to you to decide if the unity of humanity will come about by what Baha'u'llah offered, or if it will not. That all Faiths comes from the One God has never been taught to a world wide audience. That is undeniably unique for this age.

Unity was big in the hippie era... you know the dawning of the age of Aquarius. A lot of the spiritual teachings came from Indian Guru's and, I didn't know it then, but also from some Sikhs. But all faiths come from one God? The different faiths don't even say that about themselves do they? But, in reality, Baha'is do leave off a lot of religions off their list... like Mithraism, Shinto, and the Egyptian beliefs. Were they from God or from man?

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't know why you people could make a simple thing so complicated.

And I do not know what Christians make the simple teachings of Jesus so complicated....
Well, actually do know why, it is because of Paul and His new Gospel.

How Paul changed the course of Christianity

 

[TransmutingSoul]

This is what I asked...
And this is your answer?

You answered your own question at the end with.... "but now, because of Baha'u'llah, we know one thing about them... they were all manifestations of God."

Yes and by their fruits you can know a Manifestation of God.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Because of Adam, all people have to die.

No, because humans are mortal, flesh and blood, all people have to die.