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Statues

PureX

Veteran Member
At this point I'd almost hate to see this monument to Robert E. Lee in Richmond removed. The community has transformed it into something far better than it ever was, originally.

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WalterTrull

Godfella
Funny. I didn't think this was political. I guess it is. What a shame. I just thought of it sort of... well... mass hysteria.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
I guess you could call it the great statue War of 2020.

Those who want to keep the confederate statues on public/government property say it's about History, but when they go after anti slavery statues in retaliation, that tells you what it's really about.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Funny. I didn't think this was political. I guess it is. What a shame. I just thought of it sort of... well... mass hysteria.

Not an example of mass hysteria when it isn't a panic-driven response. It's a political action that reflects shifts in cultural norms and power struggles.
Defacing and removing icons has been done worldwide and throughout history on a routine basis. In all cases, it's about a group exerting their power to erase things they don't agree with. This cultural erasure is used as a weapon to disempower and destroy so something new can take its place. It's very deliberate and intended to convey a message.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Those who want to keep the confederate statues on public/government property say it's about History, but when they go after anti slavery statues in retaliation, that tells you what it's really about.
Both are historical. Im ok with slaves being memorialized as much as any historical figure out there. Personally I think it would be in the best interest for everybody if such things are restricted from government property in light on how people are behaving about things like this and kept on private lands respectively, such as historical and preservation societies.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I am opposed to vandalism in general, but as long as the proper avenue is taken I am fine with any and all statues being taken down. I really don't understand why people get upset over statues being taken down.
Generally, most people don't care about statues they don't care about.
(Almost sounds like a truism, eh......but it's not.)
NY's Cuomo liked them coming down....except for one of Columbus.
Right now, they're pulling down statues of white guys. But what will
happen when blacks & women offend someone, & get toppled?
The pendulum might just swing back, eh.
 

epronovost

Well-Known Member
happen when blacks & women offend someone, & get toppled?
The pendulum might just swing back, eh.

Well if those black men and women are genocidal tyrants and racist slavers than yes, their statues should be taken down. If Bill Cosby has a statue, maybe someone shouldd remove it, but even comparing Cosby to general Lee (the man not the car in the TV series) is unfair to Cosby. Serial rapist he might be, he wasn't a slaver nor the general commanding an army whose objective was to keep hundreds of thousands of people in bondage. Everybody is offensive to someone, not everybody is a slaver, a rapist, an assassin, a tyrant or a genocidal monster. Let's not make fallacious comparisons or balance fallacies.
 
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Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Well if those black men and women are genocidal tyrants and racist slavers than yes, their statues should be taken down.
Historical figures have been criticized for other things,
eg, Ben Franklin as a womanizer.
And statues have been toppled for other reasons,
eg, Columbus for discovering Ameristan.

Human beings aren't perfect, eg, Martin Luther
King's cheating on his wife.
And some will vehemently disagree with people of the past,
eg, some conservatives hating Margaret Sanger.

If we're to allow mobs of BLM & liberal types to destroy
statues they hate, should we allow conservative mobs too?
Should anti-theists be allowed to wreck religious statues?
And believers to destroy statues of heathens?
If Bill Cosby has a statue, maybe someone shouldd remove it, but even comparing Cosby to general Lee (the man not the car in the TV series) is unfair to Cosby. Serial rapist he might be, he wasn't a slaver nor the general in commading an army whose objective was to keep hundreds of thousands of people in bondage. Everybody is offensive to someone, not everybody is a slaver, a rapist, an assassin, a tyrant or a genocidal monster. Let's not make fallacious comparisons or balance fallacies.
You still propose no consistent standard....nor who gets to choose
it or how. If slavers' statues must be destroyed then what of all
those to G Washington & T Jefferson?

And still there's the issue of why supposed liberals want to become
the Taliban, ie, destroying historical statues? By this liberal rationale,
the Taliban was justified because of strong feelings of hatred towards
honorifics in other religions.
Nah....keep the statues....add meaningful commentary to teach about
the complete history, & our evolving views of it. That's useful.
 
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Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I am opposed to vandalism in general, but as long as the proper avenue is taken I am fine with any and all statues being taken down. I really don't understand why people get upset over statues being taken down.
You need to educate yourself about this. There is a great deal of information out there about how these Confederate statues were being raised during the Jim Crow area in the South as a way to intimate and suppress the Black populations. They were raised in an effort by the Daughters of the Confederacy to promote the myth of the Lost Cause, that imagined Blacks were happy parts of the White families, and the war was not over slavery at all, which is a big lie of course.

They need to come down because they are symbols of White Supremacy over Blacks. That's why.

BTW, this is the nature of iconoclasm during revolts or major changes in society. Statues always get torn down in history whenever major shift like this occur.
 

Eyes to See

Well-Known Member
This is not a political statement, as I don't take sides in politics. But this is a personal sentiment. I've never viewed statues as appropriate. I never could for the life of me understand why someone would want to have one erected in their honor, or in another person's honor. All honor and praise and glory go to Jehovah God.

I don't celebrate my birthday. When once asked by the director at work why I turned down the opportunity for the workplace to put a big whoop-dee-doo together for my birthday I simply replied, I am not that important. I would rather people focus on praising God, and not focusing attention on me. I am not worthy, or important enough. I feel the same way about everyone else. No need to make statues to honor another sinful human like me.

Now that they are there, it is dishonorable for vandals to be damaging them.

That word vandal. It's actually a term that comes from the fierce Germanic tribes known as the Vandals that swept down into Rome during its decline and looted the city, vandalizing it over and over.
 
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