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Where is the "simple life", where are the "simple cells"?

leroy

Well-Known Member
So basically what current abiogenesis hypothesis tell us is that life was originally “simple”(simpler than modern unicellular organisms) and evolved to become the complex life forms that we see today….

So my question is: where is the “simple life” supposedly eukaryotes evolve from prokaryotes but we still have prokaryotes today, multicellular organisms evolved from unicellular organisms but we still have unicellular organisms today, land animals evolved from marine animals but we still have marine animals today, complex eyes/brains/feathers etc. evolved from simpler organs, but we still have simple organs today.

So if complex cells evolved from simpler cells, where are these simple cells? Modern cells have all sorts of complex systems and molecular machinery inside, but supposedly the first cell was too simple and had none of this complex stuff.

Note that natural selection doesn’t “what” to increase complexity, NS what’s to optimize the viability of an organism, it is perfectly reasonable and likely to say that at least in some environments “simple cells” didn’t had any selective pressure to become more complex so shouldn’t there be some populations of simple cells all over the world?

With simple I mean “simple enough to have come in to existence by chance and/or by natural mechanisms.

I am assuming that your view is that ancient cells where much simpler than any modern cell if this is not your view, then you don’t have to answer.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
It's My Birthday!
So basically what current abiogenesis hypothesis tell us is that life was originally “simple”(simpler than modern unicellular organisms) and evolved to become the complex life forms that we see today….

So my question is: where is the “simple life” supposedly eukaryotes evolve from prokaryotes but we still have prokaryotes today, multicellular organisms evolved from unicellular organisms but we still have unicellular organisms today, land animals evolved from marine animals but we still have marine animals today, complex eyes/brains/feathers etc. evolved from simpler organs, but we still have simple organs today.

So if complex cells evolved from simpler cells, where are these simple cells? Modern cells have all sorts of complex systems and molecular machinery inside, but supposedly the first cell was too simple and had none of this complex stuff.

Note that natural selection doesn’t “what” to increase complexity, NS what’s to optimize the viability of an organism, it is perfectly reasonable and likely to say that at least in some environments “simple cells” didn’t had any selective pressure to become more complex so shouldn’t there be some populations of simple cells all over the world?

With simple I mean “simple enough to have come in to existence by chance and/or by natural mechanisms.

I am assuming that your view is that ancient cells where much simpler than any modern cell if this is not your view, then you don’t have to answer.


You have done a great job of demonstrating just how little you know (or want to know) about evolution.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
So basically what current abiogenesis hypothesis tell us is that life was originally “simple”(simpler than modern unicellular organisms) and evolved to become the complex life forms that we see today….
Hypothesis doesn't tell you anything. A hypothesis is a question, formed in a way that people can research and gather data on the subject. Data which may confirm or falsify the hypothesis.
Tom
 

BibleTales001

Only seeking truth
So basically what current abiogenesis hypothesis tell us is that life was originally “simple”(simpler than modern unicellular organisms) and evolved to become the complex life forms that we see today….

So my question is: where is the “simple life” supposedly eukaryotes evolve from prokaryotes but we still have prokaryotes today, multicellular organisms evolved from unicellular organisms but we still have unicellular organisms today, land animals evolved from marine animals but we still have marine animals today, complex eyes/brains/feathers etc. evolved from simpler organs, but we still have simple organs today.

So if complex cells evolved from simpler cells, where are these simple cells? Modern cells have all sorts of complex systems and molecular machinery inside, but supposedly the first cell was too simple and had none of this complex stuff.

Note that natural selection doesn’t “what” to increase complexity, NS what’s to optimize the viability of an organism, it is perfectly reasonable and likely to say that at least in some environments “simple cells” didn’t had any selective pressure to become more complex so shouldn’t there be some populations of simple cells all over the world?

With simple I mean “simple enough to have come in to existence by chance and/or by natural mechanisms.

I am assuming that your view is that ancient cells where much simpler than any modern cell if this is not your view, then you don’t have to answer.
I'm assuming your interest is in evolution?
 

epronovost

Well-Known Member
@leroy

The hypothesised first proto-bacteria are of course gone. The have been replaced by more performant organism like bacteria themselves who evolved from those first proto-bacteria in a fashion that is not unlike how our current species of scorpions have replaced other, more ancient species of scorpions.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
So basically what current abiogenesis hypothesis tell us is that life was originally “simple”(simpler than modern unicellular organisms) and evolved to become the complex life forms that we see today….

So my question is: where is the “simple life” supposedly eukaryotes evolve from prokaryotes but we still have prokaryotes today, multicellular organisms evolved from unicellular organisms but we still have unicellular organisms today, land animals evolved from marine animals but we still have marine animals today, complex eyes/brains/feathers etc. evolved from simpler organs, but we still have simple organs today.

So if complex cells evolved from simpler cells, where are these simple cells? Modern cells have all sorts of complex systems and molecular machinery inside, but supposedly the first cell was too simple and had none of this complex stuff.

Note that natural selection doesn’t “what” to increase complexity, NS what’s to optimize the viability of an organism, it is perfectly reasonable and likely to say that at least in some environments “simple cells” didn’t had any selective pressure to become more complex so shouldn’t there be some populations of simple cells all over the world?

With simple I mean “simple enough to have come in to existence by chance and/or by natural mechanisms.

I am assuming that your view is that ancient cells where much simpler than any modern cell if this is not your view, then you don’t have to answer.
1. 99% of all species don't exist any more. We lost all the non-avian dinosaurs. So extinction isn't unusual, it's the norm.
2. The environment in which the first primitive cells lived is most likely no longer existent on earth. The original atmosphere contained little to no free oxygen.
 

BibleTales001

Only seeking truth
1. 99% of all species don't exist any more. We lost all the non-avian dinosaurs. So extinction isn't unusual, it's the norm.
2. The environment in which the first primitive cells lived is most likely no longer existent on earth. The original atmosphere contained little to no free oxygen.
So I'm curious, can evolution dictate the future?
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
So I'm curious, can evolution dictate the future?
Dictate, no, Most events that had radical influence on evolution were random like the Chicxulub impact that killed the dinosaurs.
But aside from those random events, evolution can predict some changes. We know that species will adapt to an environment if the changes aren't too radical. We know that one species that gets separated will split into two species (though we can only give statistical chances when that will happen).
 

BibleTales001

Only seeking truth
No it's the other way round: the future environment dictates the direction of evolution, for any given population of organisms.
I assume you believe that everything started with a small singularity and expandad and that humans evolved from apes.
 

leroy

Well-Known Member
You have done a great job of demonstrating just how little you know (or want to know) about evolution.
Translation, “I don’t know the answer, I know that this is a good objection against naturalism, but I don’t what to admit it, therefore I will make a personal attack and try to sound smart. “
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
I assume you believe that everything started with a small singularity and expandad and that humans evolved from apes.
You are talking suddenly about cosmology? That's off-topic, so I'll leave that to one side, if you don't mind.

Regarding human evolution, yes of course, I am an educated man. Humans not only evolved from apes but are apes. Every schoolchild knows this.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
It's My Birthday!
Translation, “I don’t know the answer, I know that this is a good objection against naturalism, but I don’t what to admit it, therefore I will make a personal attack and try to sound smart. “

I just said it first, just about every post that follows reflects the same sentiment. But i know you just don't want to see it.
 
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