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God And Homosexuality

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
I didn't say child sex abuse. I said sexual imprinting, early, from a same sex partner. Your first sexual experience was with which gender, when?

Well into adulthood. Same sex. Cause, you know, I'm gay.

You and your dad get along beautifully except that he thinks you're going to Hell and you think his God exists? Doesn't exist?

Who said he thinks I'm going to Hell? And yes, it's possible to get along with someone and not believe in their deity. It's certainly challenging, but that's a fairly recent trial in our relationship. I was a devout Christian most of my life (I know I know, I won't be the right version to convince you of that, I'm sure).
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
While all you said is arguably incorrect, your last sentence is of the most concern:

The Bible is unreliable/Science and modernity are reliable - which sounds alike a justification of sin. I encourage you to be very honest.

My very honest answer is that you're begging the question. You haven't established that gay sex is a sin, except that you holy book says so. And you haven't demonstrated that we should believe what your holy book says about gay sex. You appear to be getting your info about gay people from that book, and from other religiously motivated sources, instead of ones rooted in empirical data. And that has, predictably, led you to biased conclusions about us.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Jude was the brother of Jesus (God). I'll take his word for it over those spouting a godless, pro-homosexual agenda.
Jude still doesn't inform Genesis. Assuming that it does leads to the dehumanization of many, as your post does here.

We are not "spouting a Godless, pro-homosexual agenda." We are advocating for a theological stance that God loves all God's children, no matter their sexual orientation, and for the equitable treatment of all, regardless of how they identify.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
The evidence strongly correlates sex abuse and emotional abuse with the fostering of homosexuality in young people.
No. It doesn't.

Jesus tells us in the New Testament that homosexuality is correlated with brokenness and sin.
This is a patent lie. Jesus is never quoted as mentioning homosexuality at all. and, in fact, the terms "homoexual" and "homosexuality" never appear in the bible. Dehumanizing people in the name of a misunderstood theology isn't right in any way.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
The Bible is unreliable/Science and modernity are reliable - which sounds alike a justification of sin. I encourage you to be very honest.
No, it's not a justification of sin, or of anything else. Sexual orientation needs no justification, any more than heterosexuality needs to be justified. Although the position that "the Bible is the best indicator of the nature of homosexuality" sounds a whole lot like a justification for discrimination."

The assumption that homosexuality is sinful is a position that does not allow for science to disagree with anything the bible has to say, which is an unjustifiable position in any case, but especially where the perpetuation of systemic violence against other people is concerned.
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
Jude still doesn't inform Genesis. Assuming that it does leads to the dehumanization of many, as your post does here.

Active gays dehumanize themselves and their bodies when they kick God and his Word to the curb in favor of their ungodly, carnal pursuits.

We are not "spouting a Godless, pro-homosexual agenda." We are advocating for a theological stance that God loves all God's children, no matter their sexual orientation, and for the equitable treatment of all, regardless of how they identify.

God does not love homosexual sin. Unless they repent of it, they will perish (Luke 13:3).
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Active gays dehumanize themselves and their bodies when they kick God and his Word to the curb in favor of their ungodly, carnal pursuits.
Speaking for myself,
It's not God I'm kicking to the curb. It's you and your demonstrably wrong religion. I realize that you can't see the difference. I interpret that as pride, on your part. You are not able to believe in a god that disagrees with you. And I am not able to put any faith in you.

Tom
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Active gays dehumanize themselves and their bodies when they kick God and his Word to the curb in favor of their ungodly, carnal pursuits.
God's word does not condemn loving, consensual, equitable, committed sexual relationships of any sort. And you can't point to any text that says God does, unless you assume a whole lot that really isn't there. No, I'm afraid it's the ones who read into the texts the false piety they wish to see there, and then project "what God 'says'" onto others, shaming them for being fully human, who are doing the dehumanizing. The bible isn't nearly as clear or succinct on the matter as you imagine it to be, and no amount of faux-pietistic bluster can make it so.

God does not love homosexual sin.
But God does approve of relationships that are loving, consensual, equitable, and committed -- I believe whether heterosexual or homosexual in nature. But, BTW, God does not approve of wholesale judgment of others that perpetuates systemic violence perptrated in God's name.
 

Mitty

Active Member
It says no such thing. It does say Jesus's bride is the church, and Jesus's engagement to us precludes sexual activity/marriage with mere humans while He was on Earth.
And did he have sex with his bride, or is that why he loved one of his disciples instead?
 
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Mitty

Active Member
Jude was the brother of Jesus (God). I'll take his word for it over those spouting a godless, pro-homosexual agenda.
And do you have any evidence to support that claim and that Jude was an eyewitness to the story in Gen 19 about how Lot mocked his sons-in-law for wanting to know what two blokes were up to in Lot's house and how Lot tried to pimp their future wives and sexually assaulted them?

And was Jude also an eyewitness to the story in Gen 18 about how Abraham shared a non-kosher meal with a god and had a face to face discussion about the number of righteous children in Gomorrah?
 

Mitty

Active Member
Romans 1 was one example where lesbianism is clear--I await, still, your alternative interpretation of :

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

How is that NOT a description of lesbianism?
In other words Romans 1:26-27 says that the men were obviously having anal sex with their women, and in the same way with other men also, given that Romans 1:26-27 says nothing at all about female homosexuality or woman with women, nor that the bible says that anal sex is the natural use of the woman, nor that Romans 1:26-27 says that female genitalia are vile and unseemly.

As to your other point, I do accept that Matthew is talking about asexual persons, not homosexuals, since the passage includes the word EUNUCHS.
WRONG.The word "eunuch" means bedchamber attendant as defined in the Oxford English Dictionary. If you believe otherwise, then how did Philip determine that Queen Candice's bedchamber attendant was asexual, and did Philip grope him in his chariot to find out (Acts 8:27-29)?
And what is your evidence that homosexuals can't be bedchamber attendants, given that the late Queen Mother preferred to employ homosexuals as her bedchamber attendants in her household and joked that she was a real queen.
 
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Spartan

Well-Known Member
Speaking for myself,
It's not God I'm kicking to the curb. It's you and your demonstrably wrong religion. I realize that you can't see the difference. I interpret that as pride, on your part. You are not able to believe in a god that disagrees with you. And I am not able to put any faith in you.

Tom

I don't need your faith in me. I need you to understand gay sex is an abomination. It cannot be legitimized.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
I need you to understand gay sex is an abomination.
I understand that you believe this.
But I know better than to accept the opinions of people who claim that the Bible is from God. They often make false claims about things I do know about.
This is just one of those things.
Tom
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Yes, it does, when it's fornication, adultery, gay sex sin....
Loving, consensual, committed, equitable sex isn't fornication or adultery.

I need you to understand gay sex is an abomination.
Why? Why do you need him to understand that? Why do you have such an overwhelming need to control the sexual behavior of those who are different from you? What is that need? Especially when the bible is tacit about the circumstances of the sexual encounter? How can you be so sure that the biblical writers simply hadn't considered the possibility of loving, committed, equitable, consensual sex between people of the same gender?
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
God's word does not condemn loving, consensual, equitable, committed sexual relationships of any sort.

<facepalm>

For the record,

"Love does not rejoice in iniquity" - 1 Corinthians 13

And,

"Love does no harm to a neighbor" - Romans 13:10 (Love does no harm to a neighbor, like enticing one's neighbor into a sinful relationship for which there are negative temporal and eternal consequences)

So, nice try but no cigar.
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
Loving, consensual, committed, equitable sex isn't fornication or adultery.

For the record,

"Love does not rejoice in iniquity" - 1 Corinthians 13

And,

"Love does no harm to a neighbor" - Romans 13:10 (Love does no harm to a neighbor, like enticing one's neighbor into a sinful relationship for which there are negative temporal and eternal consequences)

So, nice try but no cigar.
 

Mitty

Active Member
Yes, it does, when it's fornication, adultery, gay sex sin....
Is that why Jesus condemned ALL remarried divorcees to hell for their adultery (Mark 10:11-12 Lev 20:10 Matt 5:27-30).

And fornication is a synonym for prostitution

And none of that changes the fact that the bible says nothing at all about female homosexuality.
 
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