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Why Thank God

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
If God controlled everything that happens, then we are mere puppets on a string. I simply don't buy into that.

There's a Jewish commentary that says that when God made all, he made it to be "good" but not "perfect". By doing as such, the world then is ours to make or break, thus giving us the chance to be co-creators with Him.
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
I have just been involved in a long catch up phone call a very good friend who is a thoracic surgeon. He works in a hospital very close to one of Britain's main motorways and consequently sees the results of far to many high speed pile-ups.

Despite air bags and seat belts he is called on far to often to put people back together.

One of the topics we spoke about was, after a serious accident, following perhaps several intense hours of skilled surgery involving at least one surgeon, and up to a dozen highly trained theatre staff, when it is known the victim is likely to survive and the relatives and friends are informed that the surgery was a success. Inevitably someone will say "thank God"

My friend has got past the stage of wanting to confront the god thanker, although it's been on his mind he never has asked the question.

So?

My question is why offer thanks to a god who did nothing to prevent the accident, did nothing to guide a young hopeful, aspiring to be a surgion through college, university, internship, more university, many years of honing skills to the stage the now experienced hopeful can confidently rebuild a human being. Why thank a god who did nothing to help train the theatre staff. Did nothing to help design the equipment and facilities required. Generally did nothing. Why?

Ok, rant over.

If anyone does know why there is plenty of space below to show the reason

As far as I know, God generally doesn't interfere in nature, but only in special situations such as in response to some prayers.

Actually it's interesting that in scripture He just seemed to terminate Moses at 120 when Moses seemed not yet frail. (But, He had set a limit of 120 yrs in Genesis chapter 6).

For Moses though, it stands out: -- Deuteronomy 34:7 Moses was a hundred and twenty years old when he died, yet his eyes were not weak, and his vitality had not diminished.

As God chose to just end him right there anyway --
Deuteronomy 32:49 "Go up into the Abarim Range to Mount Nebo, in the land of Moab across from Jericho, and view the land of Canaan, which I am giving to the Israelites as their own possession.
Deuteronomy 32:50 And there on the mountain that you climb, you will die and be gathered to your people, just as your brother Aaron died on Mount Hor and was gathered to his people.

Basically it was: Go up this mountain, look at that land you won't go to, and then die. (one can learn the reason Moses wasn't allowed to go into Canaan, but that's another topic)

Anyway, this nature we are in has a 100% fatality rate.

For these bodies.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
By comparison (probably a silly one) one of our cats needed extensive treatment and hospitalisation for hypothyroidism and hepatitus. Cost £9,000. Thankfully we had insurance that covered some of it. But then there was the melanoma treatment...
The vet service should be nationalised!

Absolutely.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
All Royals? Even the Duke of Whoknowswheretheheckthatlittleshireis? Or just the nuclear Royal Family?

It has been a little different for about 10 years when the civil list was dropped to be replaced by a sovereign grant. I don't really know who scrounges the cash now.
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
Do you have validated examples please?




There are occasions when surgery means that time has not yet come and provides a family extra time with a loved one.
Would you believe me if I told you something that sounds nearly impossible though....(?) I did not need to get it confirmed. If you have a sharp and daily pain in a foot that lasts a year and a half and after one prayer it is gone, and does not return, not even after months, not even after years.... It's more like you are amazed and hoping it's for real, and then after a few months of zero pain ever...well...then you realize something quite real happened, and you can't even think otherwise if you try. That was only one of quite a few such dramatic outcomes of various kinds I've had. A variety of different types of things, some physical, some outside of me, some profound changes inside, some in events affecting me, and just a variety. He has no limit in His reach.

But, yes, if you really believe this mortal life is all there is, then even just a few more years, or months....or hours in some moment, can feel huge.... I can understand that point of view. Even for believers, they can feel they are not ready, and want more time here first. But, we can also feel the most profound security, an ultimate kind.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Would you believe me if I told you something that sounds nearly impossible though....(?) I did not need to get it confirmed. If you have a sharp and daily pain in a foot that lasts a year and a half and after one prayer it is gone, and does not return, not even after months, not even after years.... It's more like you are amazed and hoping it's for real, and then after a few months of zero pain ever...well...then you realize something quite real happened, and you can't even think otherwise if you try. That was only one of quite a few such dramatic outcomes of various kinds I've had. A variety of different types of things, some physical, some outside of me, some profound changes inside, some in events affecting me, and just a variety. He has no limit in His reach.

But, yes, if you really believe this mortal life is all there is, then even just a few more years, or months....or hours in some moment, can feel huge.... I can understand that point of view. Even for believers, they can feel they are not ready, and want more time here first. But, we can also feel the most profound security, an ultimate kind.

I don't think belief counts as validation

I find it the other way round, those most afraid of death seem to be the ones who believe they will continue after death.
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
I don't think belief counts as validation

I find it the other way round, those most afraid of death seem to be the ones who believe they will continue after death.
I agree! For me it took something even more impossible and dramatic, finally, to really believe in a more full way.

About fear of death -- while I've been near death twice, and so I know that territory (and was not afraid the 2nd time). Most have not. You won't know until you are there.... No one can know until they are there. You can be unafraid now....but when you are there, then you will find out if you really are....
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
I find it the other way round, those most afraid of death seem to be the ones who believe they will continue after death.

Not for all in any event. My father-in-law during his last days said that we had no idea how frightened he was of death. A friend who was a strong believer in life after death, welcomed death with the sense her life's work was over.

Of course, they could be exceptions, but I'm not sure how we'd find out how many there are.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I agree! For me it took something even more impossible and dramatic, finally, to begin to start believing.

About fear of death -- while I've been near death twice, and so I know that territory. Most have not. You won't know until you are there.... No one can know until they are there. You can be unafraid now....but when you are there, then you will find out if you really are....


My father has clinically died 3 times. He is a believer in god and is convinced that the only reason he is here today is because god is a lousy poker player.

Its not a point of being there, its a point of how people feel throughout there lives
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Not for all in any event. My father-in-law during his last days said that we had no idea how frightened he was of death. A friend who was a strong believer in life after death, welcomed death with the sense her life's work was over.

Of course, they could be exceptions, but I'm not sure how we'd find out how many there are.

I can only go off the word of people i have spoken too.
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
My father has clinically died 3 times. He is a believer in god and is convinced that the only reason he is here today is because god is a lousy poker player.

Its not a point of being there, its a point of how people feel throughout there lives
I don't agree with the last, reasonable idea, quite. Not quite. We know how we feel now.... I do know from experience that something truly unexpected can happen in feelings. After all, fear is simply an emotion, and those, to me at least, are not always fully predictable. They are only often predictable. Let me put it this way. It's great to know yourself. It means better than before.... But no one does fully. Not quite.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I don't agree with the last, reasonable idea, quite. Not quite. We know how we feel now.... I do know from experience that something truly unexpected can happen in feelings. After all, fear is simply an emotion, and those, to me at least, are not always fully predictable. They are only often predictable. Let me put it this way. It's great to know yourself. It means better than before.... But no one does fully. Not quite.

?

Its something that cannot be known after death so is only valid while alive
 

WalterTrull

Godfella
And you just made @ChristineM's point --- you don't think the surgeon and operating theatre professionals had anything to do with it. What, they're just tools in the "Great Surgeon's" hands?
l
I believe Christine M has a point. I also believe the father is in heaven and his will is done in earth. I have not fully grasped the relationship of the father to the children.
 

Ponder This

Well-Known Member
I have just been involved in a long catch up phone call a very good friend who is a thoracic surgeon. He works in a hospital very close to one of Britain's main motorways and consequently sees the results of far to many high speed pile-ups.

Despite air bags and seat belts he is called on far to often to put people back together.

One of the topics we spoke about was, after a serious accident, following perhaps several intense hours of skilled surgery involving at least one surgeon, and up to a dozen highly trained theatre staff, when it is known the victim is likely to survive and the relatives and friends are informed that the surgery was a success. Inevitably someone will say "thank God"

My friend has got past the stage of wanting to confront the god thanker, although it's been on his mind he never has asked the question.

So?

My question is why offer thanks to a god who did nothing to prevent the accident, did nothing to guide a young hopeful, aspiring to be a surgion through college, university, internship, more university, many years of honing skills to the stage the now experienced hopeful can confidently rebuild a human being. Why thank a god who did nothing to help train the theatre staff. Did nothing to help design the equipment and facilities required. Generally did nothing. Why?

Ok, rant over.

If anyone does know why there is plenty of space below to show the reason

How dare you express gratitude towards anyone or anything except me!
Fair Summary?
Gratitude towards doctors is not mutually exclusive to gratitude towards God.

Okay, so the ego rant portion having been answered... Why Thank God (the non-ego rant portion)?
If you believe in God, then it makes sense to express your gratitude, because you believe He was involved.
So that's the fundamental premise that is at contest: God did nothing vs God did something.
You say: "God did nothing! Why thank Him?!?"
But the answer to that is: "God did do something! That's why thank Him!"
You can argue He didn't do anything! But that doesn't change the belief that He did. You're simply at odds with other people on that point (and at odds with general socially accepted terms of expression).
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I have just been involved in a long catch up phone call a very good friend who is a thoracic surgeon. He works in a hospital very close to one of Britain's main motorways and consequently sees the results of far to many high speed pile-ups.

Despite air bags and seat belts he is called on far to often to put people back together.

One of the topics we spoke about was, after a serious accident, following perhaps several intense hours of skilled surgery involving at least one surgeon, and up to a dozen highly trained theatre staff, when it is known the victim is likely to survive and the relatives and friends are informed that the surgery was a success. Inevitably someone will say "thank God"

My friend has got past the stage of wanting to confront the god thanker, although it's been on his mind he never has asked the question.

So?

My question is why offer thanks to a god who did nothing to prevent the accident, did nothing to guide a young hopeful, aspiring to be a surgion through college, university, internship, more university, many years of honing skills to the stage the now experienced hopeful can confidently rebuild a human being. Why thank a god who did nothing to help train the theatre staff. Did nothing to help design the equipment and facilities required. Generally did nothing. Why?

Ok, rant over.

If anyone does know why there is plenty of space below to show the reason

I don't see that there's any reason to thank God for ordinary things, even if I did believe in God. Otherwise I'd be thanking God every time I have to stop in traffic and my brakes work.

It would seem to me that it would have to be something positive and extremely out of the ordinary, something truly miraculous that defies the laws of physics (like parting the Red Sea or something of that nature). That would be something worth thanking God for.
 
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