How and why did you reject christ?

[Riders]

I have absolutely no reason to believe Jesus is real.

Yes books like the Bible and any and all Holy books can just say anything. This is a good reason not to believe them. However the bible is good for some of its stories and some of the literature.

But I don't believe the claims about Jesus, you have not represented a reason to.

 

[Watchmen]

I was born and raised in the Mormon Church. I believed I had a close relationship to God and Christ. Then I learned the Mormon Church absolutely cannot be true. The evidence against the Church is voluminous and compelling. So the bottom dropped out and I started from scratch. I’d like to think there’s a God and that Christ is the savior. But my rationale mind tells me Christianity is just another mythology. We humans have always had our myths and likely will in one form or another. Jesus and the Christian God are no more real than Ra, Zeus, Thor, and so on. Maybe a thousand years from now people will read the Bible and think of it the same way we read the Iliad.

 

[syo]

Have you thought of other ways to look at Christ apart from what you've been taught?

yes. it was a deadend. so, i got christ out of my life. I now approach him as a fiction character that has nothing to do with religion.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

yes. it was a deadend. so, i got christ out of my life. I now approach him as a fiction character that has nothing to do with religion.

Do you think you may have respect for Christ, (guatama, etc, I don't know) if you see them all fiction or does Christ have your undivided attention do to upbringing?

Thanks for answering questions. I meant this to be convo. And I get insight nonetheless.

 

[syo]

Do you think you may have respect for Christ, (guatama, etc, I don't know) if you see them all fiction or does Christ have your undivided attention do to upbringing?

Thanks for answering questions. I meant this to be convo. And I get insight nonetheless.

I understood that the ''God'' concept has nothing to do with christ. Jesus is not God, he wasn't sent from God, he never walked the earth, and he has nothing to do with religion. After this, I saw christianity as a huge cult. I don't respect Jesus, because he is nothing. I understood why the Romans were after christians. Because christians became fans of a fiction character. The Romans weren't crazy. Christians abandoned the true religion (paganism) and started worshipping literature. I thought Harry Potter fans are crazy, but Jesus fans are on a whole new level.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I understood that the ''God'' concept has nothing to do with christ. Jesus is not God, he wasn't sent from God, he never walked the earth, and he has nothing to do with religion. After this, I saw christianity as a huge cult. I don't respect Jesus, because he is nothing. I understood why the Romans were after christians. Because christians became fans of a fiction character. The Romans weren't crazy. Christians abandoned the true religion (paganism) and started worshipping literature. I thought Harry Potter fans are crazy, but Jesus fans are on a whole new level.

Cany (or should) you base and define a human existing person's character by the people who say they know her?

Would it be right to judge a person by their friends and not the person herself?

I notice if one person cheated on other, he would believe his friends that his boyfriend cheated on him and not the boyfriend himself. It's not a relationship if the two never formed trust even in the sour points of the relationship.

Likewise with Christ. Though I have no reason to think he doesn't exist, if he did why would we judge his views based on other people's definition of him?

Noneless the Bible itself. Even people who haven't read the Bible believed in christ

 

[syo]

Cany (or should) you base and define a human existing person's character by the people who say they know her?

Would it be right to judge a person by their friends and not the person herself?

I notice if one person cheated on other, he would believe his friends that his boyfriend cheated on him and not the boyfriend himself. It's not a relationship if the two never formed trust even in the sour points of the relationship.

Likewise with Christ. Though I have no reason to think he doesn't exist, if he did why would we judge his views based on other people's definition of him?

Noneless the Bible itself. Even people who haven't read the Bible believed in christ

that's the point. Jesus never existed. He is thin air. An imagination. and a completely useless imagination, in my opinion.

Why do you think Jesus is real?

 

[rational experiences]

Why did you reject christ after having a genuine personal relationship with and his god?

Did you have a conversation with him (if you had a genuine relationship with christ before) and told me hey, see ya? or had a deep talk of departure?

If you had a genuine relationship with the christian god directly, the same questions.

Many people reject christianity, but I'm wondering if they had a relationship with christ, how did they reject christ and/or his god. There is a difference.

For me, I never had a relationship with christ's father. Never believed he existed. Christ, I can kinda understand, because he was a human flesh and blood. That, and I do believe in spirits (say of my loved ones), so this wasn't too hard to "get." The more I worshiped, the less I worshiped. It was an intense feeling of "this isn't right for you." Then I say and thought about what my priest said to me before I went to RCIA. "Maybe you should wait." Now, if Churches want you to come to church and be saved, what priest would ask you to wait first?

So, however you define it, I said in so many words "hey, jesus. I know you're important to people. I can't believe in human sacrifice. (I feel its wrong to worship 'you' as a person/flesh/however defined). This is my last actual Mass.

That's it.

I'm more open than most since I really have nothing to hide about my spiritual life. I did read a native american quote (I posted it somewhere). The author of this book asked her chief if she can use his words in her book. He says, "Of course you can use them. They are not my words, but of god". (Context please)

Why did you reject christ after having a genuine personal relationship with and his god?

I never personally believed in God as a human, who nearly died as a baby in a measles epidemic....not by measles but not wanting to eat.

Christ, I never even contemplated, for that is actually a male human science quote about the gases that came out of a volcano...I just knew I lived and survived in a blue light atmosphere...what my psyche told me.

To realize Christ is to be a scientist actually, for it is a science teaching and not a spiritual teaching.

CH gases he said that came out of a volcano, God O stone gas eruption/ejection into spatial cold zero womb. Cold and zero because stone, cold gases had ownership of self presence already. Science relativity.

Why would a spiritual human believe in science references, when we live in natural self bio awareness of our natural life presence?

Hence as males historically invented the use and descriptions words.....I do not care for your permission to use them....you forced their meaning upon the female life...and so now I forcibly give your teachings back to you liar.

Why did you reject the Christ gas natural atmospheric light body?

Because you are a liar occult satanic machine builder who said that you would force control natural by a forced machine reaction and were proven wrong.

Science never controlled the cosmos or God....God had you all life sacrificed for lying to your scientific self about ownership....machines never owned the state natural.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Messianic Judaism is NOT Judaism. Virtually all Jews would say that it is Christianity. I am somewhat more generous in saying that it is a SYNCRETISTIC new religion, but still not Judaism. You cannot be Judaism and worship Jesus, or believe that he is the Messiah. MJ interprets the Tanakh in a Christian manner, not a Jewish manner. Etc. That you think MJ is Judaism shows your ignorance of Judaism.

I'm not trying to be hostile to you, I accept you as a Jew if you are born of a halakhically Jewish mom, but if you are MJ you are apostate, and have forfeited your rights as a Jew (cannot testify in a Jewish court of law, cannot be buried in a Jewish cemetery, etc.) It grieves my heart that you have left the faith of your people.

Both really. I think first that the early parts of the Torah begin with myth, progress to legend, and then go on to history. Further, I believe that there are transcription errors, and scientific errors. However, NONE OF THAT means that it is not the Word of God. I take it on faith that it is the Word of God, and sufficient to determine the identity of the Jewish People and our covenant.

Jesus said if you disbelieve Moses, you won't believe Him either.

I've not left the Jewish faith. Tanakh is the Word of God, not some myth, and points to Yeshua. Trusting Him brings joy, and eternal life IMHO.

Because you disbelieve the Word of God is right--and think it's some kind of myth or legend in basis, why would you bother to ask me for Messianic prophecy? We might as well say any interpretation of any part of Tanakh is just fine.

Fortunately for us both, we have plain indicators of what is true in Tanakh, and specific touchstones--May 1948 is prophesied in Tanakh as is the day of Messiah's coming, for example, in Daniel.

By the way, although I think an argument from silence is sometimes weak, you claimed the NT missed Daniel's prophecy somehow--it does not--Yeshua rebuked us for missing the time of His visit--Daniel prophesied Pesach 33 AD as the day Messiah would die. Your best defense against Daniel's 483 years from the decree to rebuild the Holy City to Messiah dying is "Not interested in prophecy."

I'm not long back from my second tour of Israel and my second trip to both Qumran National Park and the Shrine of the Book at the Israel Museum in Jerusalem (Dead Sea Scrolls). By them, we know that Daniel prophesied BEFORE Messiah came and we know Isaiah promised a Jewish child of David would be pursued by Gentiles and known as the Eternal Father and Mighty God.

And not just "from David", Micah 5:2 prophesies this child will be BORN in Bethlehem. Hezekiah and his line was born in JERUSALEM until Joseph and Mary returned to Bethlehem for the census.

 

[BilliardsBall]

that's the point. Jesus never existed. He is thin air. An imagination. and a completely useless imagination, in my opinion.

Why do you think Jesus is real?

Some people (a dozen NT writers) had a great imagination, then, since they wrote hundreds of pages re: the fulfillment of hundreds of Tanakh prophecies in Jesus Christ!

 

[Unveiled Artist]

that's the point. Jesus never existed. He is thin air. An imagination. and a completely useless imagination, in my opinion.

Why do you think Jesus is real?

Like any other person in history, The Buddha, it, I have no reason to say he doesn't exist. His miracles doesn't prove he exist anymore. He didnt write his own words, why not?

(It never dawned on my why he wouldnt sense he looks,sounds, and acts like a human)

Guess a neutral feeling. No reason to question unless maybeit say he has two heads or walks like a giant.

Good question. No one has asked.e this, just about god.

Since I haven't Christian upbringing when people say Christ and god is this or that I'm neutral about it if it even crosses my mind outside RF.

 

[Riders]

Jesus said if you disbelieve Moses, you won't believe Him either.

I've not left the Jewish faith. Tanakh is the Word of God, not some myth, and points to Yeshua. Trusting Him brings joy, and eternal life IMHO.

Because you disbelieve the Word of God is right--and think it's some kind of myth or legend in basis, why would you bother to ask me for Messianic prophecy? We might as well say any interpretation of any part of Tanakh is just fine.

Fortunately for us both, we have plain indicators of what is true in Tanakh, and specific touchstones--May 1948 is prophesied in Tanakh as is the day of Messiah's coming, for example, in Daniel.

By the way, although I think an argument from silence is sometimes weak, you claimed the NT missed Daniel's prophecy somehow--it does not--Yeshua rebuked us for missing the time of His visit--Daniel prophesied Pesach 33 AD as the day Messiah would die. Your best defense against Daniel's 483 years from the decree to rebuild the Holy City to Messiah dying is "Not interested in prophecy."

I'm not long back from my second tour of Israel and my second trip to both Qumran National Park and the Shrine of the Book at the Israel Museum in Jerusalem (Dead Sea Scrolls). By them, we know that Daniel prophesied BEFORE Messiah came and we know Isaiah promised a Jewish child of David would be pursued by Gentiles and known as the Eternal Father and Mighty God.

And not just "from David", Micah 5:2 prophesies this child will be BORN in Bethlehem. Hezekiah and his line was born in JERUSALEM until Joseph and Mary returned to Bethlehem for the census.

Apparently you believe in Jesus which makes you a messianic Christian.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Apparently you believe in Jesus which makes you a messianic Christian.

Yes, and since I believe Moses, I trust Jesus.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Jesus said if you disbelieve Moses, you won't believe Him either.

I've not left the Jewish faith. Tanakh is the Word of God, not some myth, and points to Yeshua. Trusting Him brings joy, and eternal life IMHO.

Because you disbelieve the Word of God is right--and think it's some kind of myth or legend in basis, why would you bother to ask me for Messianic prophecy? We might as well say any interpretation of any part of Tanakh is just fine.

Fortunately for us both, we have plain indicators of what is true in Tanakh, and specific touchstones--May 1948 is prophesied in Tanakh as is the day of Messiah's coming, for example, in Daniel.

By the way, although I think an argument from silence is sometimes weak, you claimed the NT missed Daniel's prophecy somehow--it does not--Yeshua rebuked us for missing the time of His visit--Daniel prophesied Pesach 33 AD as the day Messiah would die. Your best defense against Daniel's 483 years from the decree to rebuild the Holy City to Messiah dying is "Not interested in prophecy."

I'm not long back from my second tour of Israel and my second trip to both Qumran National Park and the Shrine of the Book at the Israel Museum in Jerusalem (Dead Sea Scrolls). By them, we know that Daniel prophesied BEFORE Messiah came and we know Isaiah promised a Jewish child of David would be pursued by Gentiles and known as the Eternal Father and Mighty God.

And not just "from David", Micah 5:2 prophesies this child will be BORN in Bethlehem. Hezekiah and his line was born in JERUSALEM until Joseph and Mary returned to Bethlehem for the census.

Who says I don't believe the Word of God, the Tanakh, isn't right? Don't put words in my mouth.

The truth is, you *have* left the Jewish faith, the faith of your people. I'm not here to proselytize -- doing such is against the rules here on the forum. But you know very well that you have given up your rights as a Jew; you cannot be buried in a Jewish cemetery or testify in a Jewish court of law, for example.

As to your various interpretations of the Tanakh, I leave you to your esoteric Christian filter. All of your examples are taken out of context, but you are unwilling to listen because you are so sure you are right.

When did you start listening to the interpretations of Gentiles rather than the interpretations of your people, who wrote the text about your people for your people?

 

[BilliardsBall]

Who says I don't believe the Word of God, the Tanakh, isn't right? Don't put words in my mouth.

The truth is, you *have* left the Jewish faith, the faith of your people. I'm not here to proselytize -- doing such is against the rules here on the forum. But you know very well that you have given up your rights as a Jew; you cannot be buried in a Jewish cemetery or testify in a Jewish court of law, for example.

As to your various interpretations of the Tanakh, I leave you to your esoteric Christian filter. All of your examples are taken out of context, but you are unwilling to listen because you are so sure you are right.

When did you start listening to the interpretations of Gentiles rather than the interpretations of your people, who wrote the text about your people for your people?

Myths and legends aren't "right" to live by. That's my judgment, it sounds like you judge differently, and I also appreciate your zeal for Tanakh and our people.

I didn't "start listening to Gentile interpretations" but nearly 100% of the time, do my own interpreting. I have a year of University Greek and was Bar Mitzvah in a good shul, as I wrote. For example, as I told my wife yesterday:

"So I said 'Daniel says 483 years will elapse between the decree and Messiah the Prince cut off (Pesach 33 AD)' and they said, 'I don't really know what those numbers mean or like to study prophecy'. Then I said, 'Hezekiah never counselled anyone, was a wartime king, was not eternal, and wasn't the mighty God,' and they said, 'It's just a set of names or titles.'" Then my wife said, "How silly, we know that it was a PROPHECY and wasn't fulfilled by Hezekiah."

See, my wife can understand the Bible too, without taking what other people say as "gospel".

Of course, since you claim Isaiah 9 is about Hezekiah, you're not exactly interpreting the Bible for yourself, but letting our fellow Jews do so--mostly people who've never read the NT.

I encourage you to add to your zeal and knowledge a relationship with Ha Shem. Call to Him for wisdom and insight and IMHO you'll never go wrong!

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I encourage you to add to your zeal and knowledge a relationship with Ha Shem. Call to Him for wisdom and insight and IMHO you'll never go wrong!

What makes you think I don't have a relationship with Hashem? It is the height of arrogance that you assume only Jesus believers have that relationship.

 

[BilliardsBall]

What makes you think I don't have a relationship with Hashem? It is the height of arrogance that you assume only Jesus believers have that relationship.

It's not arrogance but experience. It's not like I'm new to the world of Judaism. My relationship includes not only answered prayer, but power, intimacy and miracles, healings, etc. God imparts to born again Jews and born again Christians special love, power and heightened relationship.

So perhaps a better rephrase is "instead of struggling to know God better, know Him better. Whoever has the Son has the Father."

 

[IndigoChild5559]

It's not arrogance but experience. It's not like I'm new to the world of Judaism. My relationship includes not only answered prayer, but power, intimacy and miracles, healings, etc. God imparts to born again Jews and born again Christians special love, power and heightened relationship.

So perhaps a better rephrase is "instead of struggling to know God better, know Him better. Whoever has the Son has the Father."

Again, it is the height of arrogance for you to proclaim that only you and your Jesus believers have intimate relationships with God. I know many many Jews that have deep, rich, vibrant prayer lives that would put the average Christian to shame.

And there is no "Son." It is an illusion. I'm never going to buy into your Jesus is God thing. It is opposed to the teaching of the Torah, which says that God is echad, and is not a man. I will never leave the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Some people (a dozen NT writers) had a great imagination, then, since they wrote hundreds of pages re: the fulfillment of hundreds of Tanakh prophecies in Jesus Christ!

Nah. Jesus' story really ismt that unique or imaginative. And Jesus did not fulfill all prophecy. But, eevn if he did, its easy to do when you make it up and add stuff in later. Amd why are you here? This thread is for thise who left Jesus, not those who want to debate his merits.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What makes you think I don't have a relationship with Hashem? It is the height of arrogance that you assume only Jesus believers have that relationship.

It's what Christians do.