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Being non-cis

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
Why does someone care if their neighbor is ill? That should be obvious, at least it should be to Christians and hopefully everyone else too.

An illness only matters if it is harmful or fatal. If the person is perfectly fine being transgender then it shouldn''t concern anyone else. If they are harming themselves because of it then they should be treated like any other depressed person.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Exactly. How did they even come to the conclusion that it is a mental illness in the first place?
If one's mind's gender doesn't match one's body, is that mental or physical?
Looking at how the malady is addressed medically, it appears to be both.
But the brain is thing really bothered by it all.
(It's so often the trouble maker organ, eh.)
Thus "mental illness" makes sense.
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
If one's mind's gender doesn't match one's body, is that mental or physical?
Looking at how the malady is addressed medically, it appears to be both.
But the brain is thing really bothered by it all.
(It's so often the trouble maker organ, eh.)
Thus "mental illness" makes sense.

And since they have no real cure to that illness, the solution is hormones.
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
If one's mind's gender doesn't match one's body, is that mental or physical?
Looking at how the malady is addressed medically, it appears to be both.
But the brain is thing really bothered by it all.
(It's so often the trouble maker organ, eh.)
Thus "mental illness" makes sense.

I actually never thought of it that way...
 

Maximus

the Confessor
An illness only matters if it is harmful or fatal. If the person is perfectly fine being transgender then it shouldn''t concern anyone else. If they are harming themselves because of it then they should be treated like any other depressed person.

If one feels as if the whole notion of transgenderism is misguided (because the person decides they are in fact a gender opposite as to what their DNA indicates) - whether due to a mental illness or any other reason - and corrosive to traditional Western values and teachings on family and the Created order, then you should not be surprised if you receive pushback against the attempt to normalize the behavior.
 

Maximus

the Confessor
There's the crux of the matter....ie, the stigmatism of mental illnesses.
Add to this the prevalence of hostility to different ways of thinking.

Highlighting the fact that someone has a mental illness does not necessarily imply hostility. It is an observation. Those with any illness deserve our love.
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
If one feels as if the whole notion of transgenderism is misguided (because the person decides they are in fact a gender opposite as to what their DNA indicates) - whether due to a mental illness or any other reason - and corrosive to traditional Western values and teachings on family and the Created order, then you should not be surprised if you receive pushback against the attempt to normalize the behavior.

All Christians do is push back. They aren't the minority in the US. They aren't the minority at all.
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
If one feels as if the whole notion of transgenderism is misguided (because the person decides they are in fact a gender opposite as to what their DNA indicates) - whether due to a mental illness or any other reason - and corrosive to traditional Western values and teachings on family and the Created order, then you should not be surprised if you receive pushback against the attempt to normalize the behavior.

As I said, values in society have changed numerous times in the past so I don't see why that in itself is a problem. I also don't understand what you mean by traditional Western values because those values have changed so much over the course of humanity.

I would also think that teachings on family is separate to being transgender, just like being a man is separate to whether it is OK for two men to play the mother and father roles.

If you are speaking from your religious perspective on the world, then I understand your position, so I would expect pushback because of that. But as you agree, I wouldn't think that pushback should result in hatred on the Christians part.
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
If one feels as if the whole notion of transgenderism is misguided (because the person decides they are in fact a gender opposite as to what their DNA indicates) - whether due to a mental illness or any other reason - and corrosive to traditional Western values and teachings on family and the Created order, then you should not be surprised if you receive pushback against the attempt to normalize the behavior.

By the way, I am not against people genuinely discussing the issue and bringing up their feelings about it. Those feelings should be expressed, and questions should be asked, but they should be done in a respectful way, and people shouldn't be upset about those opinions. Being upset about them would show immaturity.

The anger expressed towards transgender people is something that is worrying.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
I do not understand the hatred, let alone the violence, directed to them. However many people do think that transgenderism is a mental illness. Further, many think that the normalization of it is damaging to society, as it erodes traditional values and they do not want their children exposed to it and certainly don't think it should be normalized.
How exactly are society and "traditional values" harmed by it? And how are children harmed by knowing that transgendered people exist? These assertions are often made but never actually explained. People have the right to hold and voice their beliefs, opinions, etc. regarding the subject, but that doesn't make it okay to impose and intrude in the private lives of others.
Besides, if it's a mental illness, how is shaming, harassing, etc. supposed to heal them?
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
If one feels as if the whole notion of transgenderism is misguided (because the person decides they are in fact a gender opposite as to what their DNA indicates) - whether due to a mental illness or any other reason - and corrosive to traditional Western values and teachings on family and the Created order, then you should not be surprised if you receive pushback against the attempt to normalize the behavior.
I knew a girl who was a pseudohermaphrodite. She and her family didn't know she was actually Xy until she was a teenager, yet she continued living as a female. How does that fit into the whole "traditional values" thing?
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Besides, if it's a mental illness, how is shaming, harassing, etc. supposed to heal them?
Mental health does not really acknowledge being trans itself an illness. What is considered an illness is the depession of our own lives, but the mountain of **** people dump on us. That is considered, clinically speaking, the biggest issue. Not with us being trans but woth the way others treat us.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Mental health does not really acknowledge being trans itself an illness. What is considered an illness is the depession of our own lives, but the mountain of **** people dump on us. That is considered, clinically speaking, the biggest issue. Not with us being trans but woth the way others treat us.
I know. I'm just saying either way it doesn't justify mistreatment.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I know. I'm just saying either way it doesn't justify mistreatment.
I felt it necessary for that info to be here, especially with comments of ill communities of suspicious context and intent (I'm paranoid about certain things. Sue me.). You provided a point to build on.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
If one's mind's gender doesn't match one's body, is that mental or physical?
Looking at how the malady is addressed medically, it appears to be both.
But the brain is thing really bothered by it all.
(It's so often the trouble maker organ, eh.)
Thus "mental illness" makes sense.

I figured the bi-sexual folks were the more sane among us. My male gender identity just happens to be a mental illness that doesn't cause me any problems.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
If one's mind's gender doesn't match one's body, is that mental or physical?
Looking at how the malady is addressed medically, it appears to be both.
But the brain is thing really bothered by it all.
(It's so often the trouble maker organ, eh.)
Thus "mental illness" makes sense.
How this is explained, clinically, is that being trans isn't an illness (especially in eegards to how nature isn't "perfect" and thus we have to explain why outside of the norm is ill). However, the social stigmas, prejudice, etc., are frequently highlighted as problems that are the primary source of mental illness.
There is also a boon for patients in gender dysphoria, as with a diagnosis the doors amd avenues for medical treatments, legal protections, and insirance coverage for treatment are opened up.
So, even if clinicians will often say being trans is, in and of itself not a mental illness, they will often cling to the diagnoses as it does help clients/patients, and stress it's largely everyone else causing the mental illnessss.
 
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