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THE LAWS OF GOD

three1

Member
Then explain why Jacob could marry two sisters.
It is written that you shall not take your wife's sister to make her jealous. So the Bible doesn't really say it's forbidden.
Explain why Lot could commit incest with his daughters.
That was not consensual sex. One could say that Lot was "raped" by his daughters.(Genesis 19:31-36)

But of course, there were moments when the law was "broken" by God-fearing people and God did nothing, but these were exceptions that had to be made.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
It is written that you shall not take your wife's sister to make her jealous. So the Bible doesn't really say it's forbidden.
It says,

And you shall not take a woman with her sister [in marriage] as rivals, to uncover the nakedness of one upon the other, in her lifetime.

Of course they're going to rival each other. They're sisters.
That was not consensual sex. One could say that Lot was "raped" by his daughters.(Genesis 19:31-36)

But of course, there were moments when the law was "broken" by God-fearing people and God did nothing, but these were exceptions that had to be made.
It's an opinion that the second time was at least consensual and he should have known better.

Still, if you throw out the Noahide Laws I can't help you. If you're too stuck on your 'Talmud is not viable' then this argument is going nowhere. I believe in the Rabbinic authority, the Oral Law and as a result Orthodox Judaism.
 

three1

Member
Of course they're going to rival each other. They're sisters.
Doesn't always have to be.
It's an opinion that the second time was at least consensual and he should have known better.
I do not think so.
Still, if you throw out the Noahide Laws I can't help you. If you're too stuck on your 'Talmud is not viable' then this argument is going nowhere. I believe in the Rabbinic authority, the Oral Law and as a result Orthodox Judaism.
I am not throwing the Noahide Laws out, the laws are good, and all the laws are there in the Bible, but I say that there are many more (important) laws that concern non-Jews.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
I am not throwing the Noahide Laws out, the laws are good, and all the laws are there in the Bible, but I say that there are many more (important) laws.
That were given to Jews. Not to non-Jews. You can follow the majority of them if you want (such things as the Shabbat are not allowed to non-Jews) but you're not commanded them and shouldn't treat them as though you are; this is the position of Orthodox Judaism. It'd be nice if non-Jews stop trying to co-opt the Torah.
 

three1

Member
It'd be nice if non-Jews stop trying to co-opt the Torah.
No one can say for certain today that he is a Jew in the flesh. So who do you mean by Jews?
Furthermore, the Torah does not belong to any man, it belongs to God, because not a single man wrote the Bible, but it was God through men.

And if you think Jews are special or better then you are wrong, for God does not make a difference between a non-Jew and Jew, all are equal.

Are you children of Israel not to me like the children of Cush?
(Amos 9:7)

Do not say: "We have Abraham as father"; for I tell you that God is able to raise children to Abraham from these stones.
(Luke 3:8)


Not the children of Israel are the chosen ones, but the children of poverty.

If a man with a golden ring and splendid clothing enters your synagogue, and a poor man in unclean clothing enters, but you look at the one who wears the splendid clothing and say, 'Do you sit comfortably here, and to the poor man you say, 'Do you stand there, or do you sit here under my footstool; and have you not made a difference among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? Listen, my beloved brethren: Has not God chosen the worldly poor to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which he has promised to those who love him?
(James 2:2)
 
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Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
No one can say for certain today that he is a Jew in the flesh. So who do you mean by Jews?
Furthermore, the Torah does not belong to any man, it belongs to God, because not a single man wrote the Bible, but it was God through men.

And if you think Jews are special or better then you are wrong, for God does not different between a non-Jew or Jew, all are equal.

Are you children of Israel not to me like the children of Cush?
(Amos 9:7)

Do not say: "We have Abraham as father"; for I tell you that God is able to raise children to Abraham from these stones.
(Luke 3:8)


Not the children of Israel are the chosen ones, but the children of poverty.

If a man with a golden ring and splendid clothing enters your synagogue, and a poor man in unclean clothing enters, but you look at the one who wears the splendid clothing and say, 'Do you sit comfortably here, and to the poor man you say, 'Do you stand there, or do you sit here under my footstool; and have you not made a difference among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? Listen, my beloved brethren: Has not God chosen the worldly poor to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which he has promised to those who love him?
(James 2:2)
Blah blah Jews are fakes blah blah Christian scripture blah blah lack of understanding of Judaism blah blah.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
What laws do you think need to be kept today? 10? 600+? Don't mind being thorough but I see some responses that are miles long so be somewhat concise
Jews have 613 laws as God gave in the Torah. These laws were not given to the nations of the world. There is some crossover with universals, such as not murdering, stealing, committing adultery, etc. But people need to remember that these laws were given to Israel.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Lol... That's crazy... Smh
You're just not used to the idea that a priestly people has more rules than the non-priestly people. Even in human societies, those who are moral leaders usually have to abide by stricter standards. If you hung around Jews and Noahides more often, this would not seem as crazy to you.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
What do you mean? Where did I say that?

No one can prove that he is a descendant of the ancient Hebrews.
You are definitely implying that we Jews who make these claims cannot support them, meaning we are "fake Jews." This is a really common form of anti-Semitism, to say that Jews are not really Jews.
 

Israel12

Member
Jews have 613 laws as God gave in the Torah. These laws were not given to the nations of the world. There is some crossover with universals, such as not murdering, stealing, committing adultery, etc. But people need to remember that these laws were given to Israel.
I agree like Psalms 147:19-20 says. However at the end of the day when the messiah has Dominion and Israel is in rulership and these heathens are subject to us then they will keep the laws of God regardless
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I agree like Psalms 147:19-20 says. However at the end of the day when the messiah has Dominion and Israel is in rulership and these heathens are subject to us then they will keep the laws of God regardless
No, I have to disagree. There is no reason whatsoever for a non-Jew to obstain from pork. Such a prohibition is only for Jews. Why? Just as the Kohanim, the priests, have special laws that apply to them and set them apart from regular Jews, so Israel as a priestly people has special laws which apply only to us and set us apart from the Nations. It doesn't make us better; it just is because we have a different vocation.

You say, "us," and your name is Israel. So are you a Jew? But you have chosen not to observe the Jewish covenant?
 

Israel12

Member
No, I have to disagree. There is no reason whatsoever for a non-Jew to obstain from pork. Such a prohibition is only for Jews. Why? Just as the Kohanim, the priests, have special laws that apply to them and set them apart from regular Jews, so Israel as a priestly people has special laws which apply only to us and set us apart from the Nations. It doesn't make us better; it just is because we have a different vocation.

You say, "us," and your name is Israel. So are you a Jew? But you have chosen not to observe the Jewish covenant?
So
No, I have to disagree. There is no reason whatsoever for a non-Jew to obstain from pork. Such a prohibition is only for Jews. Why? Just as the Kohanim, the priests, have special laws that apply to them and set them apart from regular Jews, so Israel as a priestly people has special laws which apply only to us and set us apart from the Nations. It doesn't make us better; it just is because we have a different vocation.

You say, "us," and your name is Israel. So are you a Jew? But you have chosen not to observe the Jewish covenant?
I don't see non Jews eating pork in the kingdom but I'm speaking of things like keeping feast of Tabernacles and civil disputes etc.

I'm an israelite of the tribe of Judah
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
So

I don't see non Jews eating pork in the kingdom but I'm speaking of things like keeping feast of Tabernacles and civil disputes etc.

I'm an israelite of the tribe of Judah
Non Jews are not required to keeped the Holy Days given to Israel to keep. The prophets teach that someday non-Jews will keep Sukkot. Thats about it.

It is very odd tat you say Israelite instead of Jew. Why do you do that?
 

Ehav4Ever

Well-Known Member
Concerning the issue of Jews not knowing who is a Jew today. I did a couple of videos a few years that detail how modern Jews know today what our ancestry is. See the videos below.


This one is a bit older and I plan on redoing it at some point but is useful.

 

Israel12

Member
Non Jews are not required to keeped the Holy Days given to Israel to keep. The prophets teach that someday non-Jews will keep Sukkot. Thats about it.

It is very odd tat you say Israelite instead of Jew. Why do you do that?
And things like Sabbaths and new moons.

And how is that odd when Paul did the same
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Concerning the issue of Jews not knowing who is a Jew today. I did a couple of videos a few years that detail how modern Jews know today what our ancestry is. See the videos below.


This one is a bit older and I plan on redoing it at some point but is useful.

And if it's on YouTube it has to be true.

Again, this is just stupid. Do people go around telling the Lakota that they are not really Lakota, or the Inuit that they are not really Inuit, or the Zulu that they are not really Zulu?

We know who we are. It is sheer chutzpah that outsiders butt into our affairs as if they know our culture, our religion, our ways, and what makes us, "us."
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
And things like Sabbaths and new moons.

And how is that odd when Paul did the same
It never says that non-Jews will keep the Shabbat. It does say that converts will keep the Shabbat.

We don't live two thousand years ago, when Paul was around. We live today, and we call ourselves Jews.

It is correct to say "B'nei Yisrael" when we speak Hebrew. But no one, no one says they are an Israelite except those who aren't really Jewish. KNow that I consider you highly suspect.
 
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