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THE LAWS OF GOD

Israel12

Member
What laws do you think need to be kept today? 10? 600+? Don't mind being thorough but I see some responses that are miles long so be somewhat concise
 

Eyes to See

Well-Known Member
In the Bible there were certain things that were wrong before the Mosaic Law was introduced.

For example, when Noah got off the ark, God told him that he could eat of all the animals of the ground, but the blood, that represented the life, or the soul of the animal, was to be returned to the ground. It could not be consumed.

When Potifar's wife tried to lie down with Joseph, Joseph rightly said that it would be a sin against God if he did that.

Actually, in Acts we are told the things that we still have to follow from the Mosaic Law, and these are basic laws that God has always had, even before handing down the Law to the Israelites:

"For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things:  to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality."-Acts 15:28.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
For example, when Noah got off the ark, God told him that he could eat of all the animals of the ground, but the blood, that represented the life, or the soul of the animal, was to be returned to the ground. It could not be consumed.
This is incorrect. This is a ban on eating live animals.

It says,

But, flesh with its soul, its blood, you shall not eat.

The flesh with its soul = a live creature.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
So can non-jews eat blood or crossdress or disobey parents? Because those are not apart of the Noahide laws
We can eat blood, we can cross-dress, but disobeying parents is a no-no.
 

Eyes to See

Well-Known Member
This is incorrect. This is a ban on eating live animals.

It says,

But, flesh with its soul, its blood, you shall not eat.

The flesh with its soul = a live creature.

It says there that the blood is the soul, or life of the animal. The blood was forbidden, not the meat.

Here are other scriptures that explain it:

(Leviticus 3:17) “‘It is a lasting statute for your generations, in all your dwelling places: You must not eat any fat or any blood at all.’”
(Leviticus 7:26) “‘You must not eat any blood in any of your dwelling places, whether that of birds or that of animals.
(Leviticus 17:10) “‘If any man of the house of Israel or any foreigner who is residing in your midst eats any sort of blood, I will certainly set my face against the one who is eating the blood, and I will cut him off from among his people.
(Leviticus 17:13) “‘If one of the Israelites or some foreigner who is residing in your midst is hunting and catches a wild animal or a bird that may be eaten, he must pour its blood out and cover it with dust.
(Deuteronomy 12:16) But you must not eat the blood; you should pour it out on the ground like water.
(Deuteronomy 12:23) Just be firmly resolved not to eat the blood, because the blood is the life, and you must not eat the life with the flesh.
(Acts 15:20) but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from what is strangled, and from blood.
(Acts 15:29) to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”
(Acts 21:25) As for the believers from among the nations, we have sent them our decision in writing that they should keep away from what is sacrificed to idols as well as from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality.”
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
It says there that the blood is the soul, or life of the animal. The blood was forbidden, not the meat.

Here are other scriptures that explain it:

(Leviticus 3:17) “‘It is a lasting statute for your generations, in all your dwelling places: You must not eat any fat or any blood at all.’”
(Leviticus 7:26) “‘You must not eat any blood in any of your dwelling places, whether that of birds or that of animals.
(Leviticus 17:10) “‘If any man of the house of Israel or any foreigner who is residing in your midst eats any sort of blood, I will certainly set my face against the one who is eating the blood, and I will cut him off from among his people.
(Leviticus 17:13) “‘If one of the Israelites or some foreigner who is residing in your midst is hunting and catches a wild animal or a bird that may be eaten, he must pour its blood out and cover it with dust.
(Deuteronomy 12:16) But you must not eat the blood; you should pour it out on the ground like water.
(Deuteronomy 12:23) Just be firmly resolved not to eat the blood, because the blood is the life, and you must not eat the life with the flesh.
(Acts 15:20) but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from what is strangled, and from blood.
(Acts 15:29) to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”
(Acts 21:25) As for the believers from among the nations, we have sent them our decision in writing that they should keep away from what is sacrificed to idols as well as from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality.”
Leviticus and Deuteronomy are for Jews, not for non-Jews. These rules are not part of Noahide Law.

Acts is not part of my scripture.
 

Eyes to See

Well-Known Member
Leviticus and Deuteronomy are for Jews, not for non-Jews. These rules are not part of Noahide Law.

Acts is not part of my scripture.

They were quoted to explain what is being referred to. Blood has always been forbidden to consume in the Bible, before the Mosaic Law, in the Mosaic Law, and to the Christian congregation.
 

Israel12

Member
It says there that the blood is the soul, or life of the animal. The blood was forbidden, not the meat.

Here are other scriptures that explain it:

(Leviticus 3:17) “‘It is a lasting statute for your generations, in all your dwelling places: You must not eat any fat or any blood at all.’”
(Leviticus 7:26) “‘You must not eat any blood in any of your dwelling places, whether that of birds or that of animals.
(Leviticus 17:10) “‘If any man of the house of Israel or any foreigner who is residing in your midst eats any sort of blood, I will certainly set my face against the one who is eating the blood, and I will cut him off from among his people.
(Leviticus 17:13) “‘If one of the Israelites or some foreigner who is residing in your midst is hunting and catches a wild animal or a bird that may be eaten, he must pour its blood out and cover it with dust.
(Deuteronomy 12:16) But you must not eat the blood; you should pour it out on the ground like water.
(Deuteronomy 12:23) Just be firmly resolved not to eat the blood, because the blood is the life, and you must not eat the life with the flesh.
(Acts 15:20) but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from what is strangled, and from blood.
(Acts 15:29) to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”
(Acts 21:25) As for the believers from among the nations, we have sent them our decision in writing that they should keep away from what is sacrificed to idols as well as from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality.”
Exactly.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
They were quoted to explain what is being referred to. Blood has always been forbidden to eat in the Bible, before the Mosaic Law, in the Mosaic Law, and to the Christian congregation.
No, as the verses in Genesis showed you, one who is not Jewish can eat blood. Those other verses explain why Jews can't eat blood; they have nothing to do with non-Jews.
 

Eyes to See

Well-Known Member
No, as the verses in Genesis showed you, one who is not Jewish can eat blood. Those other verses explain why Jews can't eat blood; they have nothing to do with non-Jews.

The verse I quoted in Genesis says that the soul is in the blood and cannot be eaten:

"Only flesh with its life—its blood—you must not eat."-Genesis 9:4.

This was said right after Jehovah said that man could eat the animals. This is referring to the blood of the animal. It was forbidden. They were allowed to eat the animals but they could not eat the blood.

The full context is this:

"Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for you. Just as I gave you the green vegetation, I give them all to you. 4 Only flesh with its life—its blood—you must not eat."-Genesis 9:3, 4.

Humans were allowed to eat the animals, but the blood they were forbidden from eating.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
The verse I quoted in Genesis says that the soul is in the blood and cannot be eaten:

"Only flesh with its life—its blood—you must not eat."-Genesis 9:4.

This was said right after Jehovah said that man could eat the animals. This is referring to the blood of the animal. It was forbidden. They were allowed to eat the animals but they could not eat the blood.

The full context is this:

"Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for you. Just as I gave you the green vegetation, I give them all to you. 4 Only flesh with its life—its blood—you must not eat."-Genesis 9:3, 4.

Humans were allowed to eat the animals, but they blood the were forbidden from eating.
No, you are misunderstanding.

Here is how Rashi, a Mediaeval Rabbi and Torah commentator and one of the greatest of such, understands this verse:

flesh with its soul: He prohibited them [to eat] a limb [cut off from] a living creature; i.e., as long as its soul is in it, you shall not eat the flesh. — [from Sanh. ad loc.] [i.e., if the limb is cut from the animal while it is alive, it is forbidden to be eaten even after the animal expires.]
with its soul, its blood: As long as its soul is within it.
flesh with its soul…you shall not eat: This refers to a limb of a living creature.
And also, its blood, you shall not eat- This refers to blood of a living creature. — [from above source]

Here is how Ramban understands this verse,

'[T]he sons of Noah have been admonished against eating a limb cut from a living animal, as is the opinion of the Sages, but not the blood of a living animal, as is the opinion of Rabbi Chanina ben Gamliel.' -Ramban, Commentary on the Torah, pg 132.


Neither say anything about eating blood being prohibited to non-Jews.

 
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Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
What laws do you think need to be kept today? 10? 600+? Don't mind being thorough but I see some responses that are miles long so be somewhat concise

My Catholic theological response to this question:

The entire moral law of the Torah is binding upon Christians, because it is divine law which encodes and clarifies (in my understanding as a Catholic) eternal and immutable principles of ethical monotheism, which could be discerned through intuition and reason alone from nature (natural law).

Natural law, as St. Thomas Aquinas explained in the thirteenth century, is the means by which humans participate in the Eternal Law of God, which is the mind of the Creator.

On the other hand, the mitzvot of the Torah dealing with ceremonial, ritual purity/dietary matters have not been “abolished” (hard supersessionism, which the church rejects today), it is merely the case that people - whether ethno-culturally Jewish or Gentile - who are baptised members of the church, are according to our theology of salvation redeemed and justified by a living faith in Jesus expressed through love manifested in good ethical works, rather than through those cultic works of the law.

The mitzvot themselves were never binding upon Gentiles in the first place and St. Paul cautions that for Gentiles to subject themselves to such mitzvot would be akin to denying the efficacy of Christ’s sacrifice (the heresy of “Judaization”).

However, this does not mean - again in our understanding - that Jews can no longer observe these divinely-ordained laws which God revealed specifically for the children of Israel that they might be a “light unto the nations” and a nation of priests holy to the Lord.

St. Paul actually writes:

1 Corinthians 7:18-20 [ESV]: “Was anyone at the time of his call already circumcised? Let him not seek to remove the marks of circumcision. Was anyone at the time of his call uncircumcised? Let him not seek circumcision…Each one should remain in the condition in which he was called

Jews are born as Jews by upbringing, cultural heritage and ethnicity (although one can join through becoming a proselyte and thus be a Jew), Gentiles as Gentiles by upbringing, cultural heritage and ethnicity (i.e. Irish Catholics, Mexican Catholics, Polish Catholics, Melkite Catholics).

We are each entitled to remain “as we were called”, at least so far as our conscience so dictates:

I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean.” (Romans 14:14)

So, in sum, the moral laws of the Torah and the stipulation to worship the One God alone are eternally binding, whereas the ceremonial/cultic/purity/dietary laws were only ever intended for Jews (then and now).

To be precise, the only laws which Christians regard as “abolished” are the Temple blood sacrifices (the grain offerings aren't touched by this theology), because Christ’s offering up of his body and blood as eternal high priest in the Eucharist are deemed to have replaced them and the judicial/penal regulations too as evidenced by the pericope adulterae, because these reflected the needs / social limitations of the time in which they were revealed and would be excessively harsh by today’s standards (ordained therefore only for the ancient Israelites to order their society).
 
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Israel12

Member
No, you are misunderstanding.

Here is how Rashi, a Mediaeval Rabbi and Torah commentator and one of the greatest of such, understands this verse:

flesh with its soul: He prohibited them [to eat] a limb [cut off from] a living creature; i.e., as long as its soul is in it, you shall not eat the flesh. — [from Sanh. ad loc.] [i.e., if the limb is cut from the animal while it is alive, it is forbidden to be eaten even after the animal expires.]
with its soul, its blood: As long as its soul is within it.
flesh with its soul…you shall not eat: This refers to a limb of a living creature. And also, its blood, you shall not eat- This refers to blood of a living creature. — [from above source]

Here is how Ramban understands this verse,

'[T]he sons of Noah have been admonished against eating a limb cut from a living animal, as is the opinion of the Sages, but not the blood of a living animal, as is the opinion of Rabbi Chanina ben Gamliel.' -Ramban, Commentary on the Torah, pg 132.

Ramban asserts one can even eat the blood of a living animal if one is not Jewish.

Neither say anything about eating blood being prohibited to non-Jews.
That is such a gross interpretation

Leviticus 17:12-13
[12]Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.
[13]And whatsoever man there be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, which hunteth and catcheth any beast or fowl that may be eaten; he shall even pour out the blood thereof, and cover it with dust.

Stranger or not you were not to eat the blood. Has nothing to do with a limb being cut off while alive or anything.
 

Eyes to See

Well-Known Member
No, you are misunderstanding.

Here is how Rashi, a Mediaeval Rabbi and Torah commentator and one of the greatest of such, understands this verse:

flesh with its soul: He prohibited them [to eat] a limb [cut off from] a living creature; i.e., as long as its soul is in it, you shall not eat the flesh. — [from Sanh. ad loc.] [i.e., if the limb is cut from the animal while it is alive, it is forbidden to be eaten even after the animal expires.]
with its soul, its blood: As long as its soul is within it.
flesh with its soul…you shall not eat: This refers to a limb of a living creature.
And also, its blood, you shall not eat- This refers to blood of a living creature. — [from above source]

Here is how Ramban understands this verse,

'[T]he sons of Noah have been admonished against eating a limb cut from a living animal, as is the opinion of the Sages, but not the blood of a living animal, as is the opinion of Rabbi Chanina ben Gamliel.' -Ramban, Commentary on the Torah, pg 132.


Neither say anything about eating blood being prohibited to non-Jews.

The Bible does not contradict itself. There are many other scriptures that tell us directly we cannot eat blood. It is in the Bible. I quoted direct scriptures that say it is forbidden. I didn't even misunderstand or interpret the scriptures. Just explained them exactly as they state the command.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
The Bible does not contradict itself. There are many other scriptures that tell us directly we cannot eat blood. It is in the Bible. I quoted direct scriptures that say it is forbidden. I didn't even misunderstand or interpret the scriptures. Just explained them exactly as they state the command.
No it doesn't. There is no contradiction between these verses. One is only speaking directly to the Jewish people. There is no contradiction between non-Jews being allowed to eat blood and Jews not being allowed to eat blood. The Mosaic Law is only for Jews. If it says Jews can't eat blood, that means nothing to non-Jews, who, as we can see from Gen 9:5, can eat blood (according to the Jewish interpretation).
 
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