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Clearly, God wants us to worship Him, but why should we?

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
QUOTE="QuestioningMind, post: 6623412, member: 25412"]Change your concept of worship. It doesn't need to be submission to a higher power

I based my concept of worship on the definition you provided in your previous post.

Worship meaning you give acknowledge and reverence to someone or something higher or more worthy of respect than yourself[/QUOTE]

@QuestioningMind

You don't need to bow down to something you put at reverence:

Bowing, etc, are cultural but it all balls down to acknowledgement, reverence, and respect.

Bowing and submission are cultural. It's not a universal word for worship. The definition/context is definitely not an abrahamic word.

I'm not sure the point you're making, though. Please add commentary if you're quoting me.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I haven't read all of the answers, but what do you think worship is anyway? I would think worship involves knowing who God is, loving Him, and following his commandments. Not abject subservience, or if a person doesn't want to worship him, thinking God will let him do whatever he wants no matter what, forever.
I think that knowing God and worshiping God are separate although they are related because first you have to know God and then you worship God for who you know He is. That is exemplified in this Baha'i prayer:

Short Obligatory Prayer

“I bear witness, O my God, that Thou hast created me to know Thee and to worship Thee. I testify, at this moment, to my powerlessness and to Thy might, to my poverty and to Thy wealth.

There is none other God but Thee, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting.”

Bahá’u’lláh


However, if one does not believe all the good things scriptures say about God, one might not like God very much so one would probably be hard pressed to worship God.

I think that following God's commandments is a separate matter altogether, although maybe not, because in my religion we are commanded to work for a living and Baha'u'llah also wrote that work done in the spirit of service to God is equivalent to worship.
 

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
There are two questions I would like you to answer.

1. Since God is fully self-sufficient and fully self- sustaining, omnipotent and omniscient, God does not need humans for anything, so why does God want us to worship Him?

2. Look at these scriptures from various religions. They all say essentially the same thing. God wants us to worship Him, but why should we? What has God done to deserve our worship?

Bhagavad Gita 7.1 The Supreme Lord said: Now listen, O Arjun, how, with the mind attached exclusively to me, and surrendering to me through the practice of bhakti yog, you can know me completely, free from doubt.

Exodus 20:1-3 And God spoke all these words, saying, “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. “You shall have no other gods before me.”

Matthew 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’”

“Indeed, I am Allah. There is no God except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer for My remembrance.” (Quran 20:14)

“VERILY I am God, no God is there but Me, and aught except Me is but My creation. Say, worship Me then, O ye, My creatures.” Selections From the Writings of the Báb, p. 158

“O kings of the earth! He Who is the sovereign Lord of all is come. The Kingdom is God’s, the omnipotent Protector, the Self-Subsisting. Worship none but God, and, with radiant hearts, lift up your faces unto your Lord, the Lord of all names. This is a Revelation to which whatever ye possess can never be compared, could ye but know it.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 210
To worship God as most high is to acknowledge reality. It is not much different than a parent being acknowledged as authority in a household -honored -and especially acknowledged for being excellent. The latter is not so apparent right now, as God allowed all of the evil which we have experienced to exist -but when we see what it produces in the end, we will understand why -and praise him all the more.
To praise him makes him happy as much as when we praise each other.
 

Regiomontanus

Ματαιοδοξία ματαιοδοξιών! Όλα είναι ματαιοδοξία.
That's good but not everyone is that fortunate. Some people had no kids or grandkids and I won't tell you the rest. :(

I am grateful for the little things, like the little bird who hit his head an the glass patio door finally recovered and flew away.....
but you have no idea how much some people suffer unless you have walked a mile in their moccasins. ;)

Trust me, I know of suffering. That is what makes each new day such a blessing. Always have hope :)
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
Clearly, God wants us to worship Him, but why should we?
I think what is "clear" is that other human beings want us to worship God. They talk about God AN AWFUL LOT MORE than God talks about Himself. Even The Bible can only be assumed to be "the words of God" - and otherwise, it was (factually) written by humans regardless what you suppose God's role was in its crafting.

Other humans want you to worship God. Period. The real question you should be asking yourself with that in mind is why are those humans so keen on you worshipping?
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
BhagawadGita is a Vaishnava scripture. Hindus do not deride scriptures of sects whose views are different from their own, but the difference remains. Also since written, there has been interpolations in BhagawadGita, that is why some of its verses accept non-duality whereas others accept duality. BhagawadGita is respected by all Hindus but that does not mean agreement. Vinayaka too will differ from it and so will do many others.

Furthermore, you are generally reading Hare-Krishna / Prabhupada translations. They are not wholly correct. They introduce Krishna bhakti (devotion) in verses where it is not present.
“I bear witness, O my God, that Thou hast created me to know Thee and to worship Thee. I testify, at this moment, to my powerlessness and to Thy might, to my poverty and to Thy wealth.
Bahaollah (and you) are being witness, where is the evidence? Courts also accept the testimony of a witness, if the witness provides proof. Just an assertion is not enough.
There are false witnesses also. They sell their own importance.
 
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Thief

Rogue Theologian
There are two questions I would like you to answer.

1. Since God is fully self-sufficient and fully self- sustaining, omnipotent and omniscient, God does not need humans for anything, so why does God want us to worship Him?

2. Look at these scriptures from various religions. They all say essentially the same thing. God wants us to worship Him, but why should we? What has God done to deserve our worship?
It's all fine and good …..Self Aware
to say ….I AM!

but if no one answers...………….

and if the answer comes back as an Echo
that is not really a response

Someone had to be First
to say ...I AM!

and Someone responded......Me Two!
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Does not say "God wants us to worship Him". You misinterpret the verse
There is always another way to understand verses of Gita. I believe in existence of Brahman, which is not a God. For me the Krishna of BhagawadGita is the Brahman. You will remember that I have always compared my visualization of Brahman to physical energy, gravity, electromagnetism, light, heat, etc. This is what the verse says to me:

"mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha, yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ;
asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ, yathā jñāsyasi tat shrunu."


Meaning: mayi - to Me; āsakta-manāḥ - mind attached; pārtha - O son of Pṛthā; yogam - self-realization; yuñjan - practicing; mat-āśrayaḥ - in consciousness of Me (Kṛṣṇa consciousness)*; asaṁśayam - without doubt; samagram - completely; mām - Me; yathā - how; jñāsyasi - you can know; tat - that; śṛṇu - try to hear.
* (Kṛṣṇa consciousness) - unnecessary addition, does not exist in the verse.

Aupmanyav's Translation: O Partha (Arjuna), with your heart attached to me (i.e., in deep contemplation of the non-God Brahman), practice self-realization by taking refuge in me; hear, how you can know me completely without any doubt.

I have done that completely, and therefore, have found answers to all my questions.
 
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GoodbyeDave

Well-Known Member
1. Since God is fully self-sufficient and fully self- sustaining, omnipotent and omniscient, God does not need humans for anything, so why does God want us to worship Him?
2. Look at these scriptures from various religions. They all say essentially the same thing. God wants us to worship Him, but why should we?
Not all of us believe in scriptures. Not all of us believe in "God".

A better question is why we worship. The word is derived from "worth" — the noun meant the quality of being worthy, as in Chaucer's "A man of worship and honour". So to worship a god is convey the fact that we honour them; it's showing respect to a superior and gratitude for benefits received from them; to worship is part of justice. Thomas Aquinas wrote "Again, honour is due to someone under the aspect of excellence … in human affairs we see that different honour is due to different personal excellences, one kind of honour to a father, another to the king, and so on." (Summa 2.2 Q81)
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Not all of us believe in scriptures. Not all of us believe in "God".

A better question is why we worship. The word is derived from "worth" — the noun meant the quality of being worthy, as in Chaucer's "A man of worship and honour". So to worship a god is convey the fact that we honour them; it's showing respect to a superior and gratitude for benefits received from them; to worship is part of justice. Thomas Aquinas wrote "Again, honour is due to someone under the aspect of excellence … in human affairs we see that different honour is due to different personal excellences, one kind of honour to a father, another to the king, and so on." (Summa 2.2 Q81)

Do you think pets should be grateful to their owners?
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
For keeping them imprisoned in their houses and not letting them be free? Some pet animals have even forgotten what it means to be free (Dogs, cows, horses, etc.).
 
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stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
1. Since God is fully self-sufficient and fully self- sustaining, omnipotent and omniscient, God does not need humans for anything, so why does God want us to worship Him?

Bhagavad Gita 7.1 The Supreme Lord said: Now listen, O Arjun, how, with the mind attached exclusively to me, and surrendering to me through the practice of bhakti yog, you can know me completely, free from doubt.
I don't read here, that "God wants us to worship Him".
God shows how to ''know Him completely, free from doubt". Just a friendly advice/gift. Free to take or leave; no hurt feelings:)...Love only.

IMHO: Bhakti Yoga stands for:
a) Bhakti: pure Love; or Krishna Consciousness
b) Yoga: unconditional mind; or "mind attached exclusively to me" (Pure Consciousness, or Krishna).
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
There are two questions I would like you to answer.

1. Since God is fully self-sufficient and fully self- sustaining, omnipotent and omniscient, God does not need humans for anything, so why does God want us to worship Him?

2. Look at these scriptures from various religions. They all say essentially the same thing. God wants us to worship Him, but why should we? What has God done to deserve our worship?

Bhagavad Gita 7.1 The Supreme Lord said: Now listen, O Arjun, how, with the mind attached exclusively to me, and surrendering to me through the practice of bhakti yog, you can know me completely, free from doubt.

Exodus 20:1-3 And God spoke all these words, saying, “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. “You shall have no other gods before me.”

Matthew 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’”

“Indeed, I am Allah. There is no God except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer for My remembrance.” (Quran 20:14)

“VERILY I am God, no God is there but Me, and aught except Me is but My creation. Say, worship Me then, O ye, My creatures.” Selections From the Writings of the Báb, p. 158

“O kings of the earth! He Who is the sovereign Lord of all is come. The Kingdom is God’s, the omnipotent Protector, the Self-Subsisting. Worship none but God, and, with radiant hearts, lift up your faces unto your Lord, the Lord of all names. This is a Revelation to which whatever ye possess can never be compared, could ye but know it.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 210
When we encounter God, or even just a reflection of God as in the spectacular beauty and order of nature, we cannot be but moved to worship. It is simply a natural thing.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
For keeping them imprisoned in thier hosues and not letting them be free? Some pet animals have even forgotten what it means to be free (Dogs, cows, horses, etc.).
What is freedom? Human beings are best free when we accept responsibility and boundaries. Total lack of these things results in a chaotic life that ultimately enslaves us.

For cat and dogs, etc., being a pet is what they have evolved to be, what they are bred to be. They are no longer wild. To be wild is to face starvation. They need human beings not only for food, but for affection and attention. Yes, even cats!

Livestock animals are similarly bred to need human beings, but one can argue they are still enslaved because their ultimate purpose is slaughter, nor are they given love.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Trust me, I know of suffering. That is what makes each new day such a blessing. Always have hope :)
Thanks, I can see it that way if I live only in the day, and don't think about the past :( or the future :(
Don't get me wrong, I have great hope for the future of humanity, just not for my own life. I really have to believe God cares about me in order to have any hope at all, given the situation. ;)

This life has been mostly suffering for me, and it's not over. However, I just do the best I can in the present day and I hang onto the hope I have been given by the scriptures of my religion...

“O My servants! Sorrow not if, in these days and on this earthly plane, things contrary to your wishes have been ordained and manifested by God, for days of blissful joy, of heavenly delight, are assuredly in store for you. Worlds, holy and spiritually glorious, will be unveiled to your eyes. You are destined by Him, in this world and hereafter, to partake of their benefits, to share in their joys, and to obtain a portion of their sustaining grace. To each and every one of them you will, no doubt, attain.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 329
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I think what is "clear" is that other human beings want us to worship God. They talk about God AN AWFUL LOT MORE than God talks about Himself. Even The Bible can only be assumed to be "the words of God" - and otherwise, it was (factually) written by humans regardless what you suppose God's role was in its crafting.

Other humans want you to worship God. Period. The real question you should be asking yourself with that in mind is why are those humans so keen on you worshipping?
Thanks for your opinion. I have a different opinion and it is based upon what 'I consider' logic and common sense.

Why would other people want me to worship God? What would be in it for them, what would be their motive?
I can think of no motive and that is one reason I believe that those scriptures originated from God through His Messengers. Moreover, I can think of no motive for writing anything that is written in those scriptures, except that God was behind them in some way.

Motive is everything when it comes to human behavior. Moreover, it is the very first thing that a detective looks at when a crime has been committed.

What would have been the motives for the Messengers of God to lay their lives on the line and suffer persecution throughout their entire lives, if they were not sent by God? Mind you, none of them were wealthy and they all knew they were going to die, so fame would not matter after they were dead. I just try to be logical.

I do not believe that God can talk about Himself, except through His Messengers, because God is not a man. I just try to be logical.
.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
BhagawadGita is a Vaishnava scripture. Hindus do not deride scriptures of sects whose views are different from their own, but the difference remains. Also since written, there has been interpolations in BhagawadGita, that is why some of its verses accept non-duality whereas others accept duality. BhagawadGita is respected by all Hindus but that does not mean agreement. Vinayaka too will differ from it and so will do many others.

Furthermore, you are generally reading Hare-Krishna / Prabhupada translations. They are not wholly correct. They introduce Krishna bhakti (devotion) in verses where it is not present.
Thanks for that information about Hinduism and the scriptures. Yes, I know there are many different sects of Hinduism, just as in all the older religions.
Bahaollah (and you) are being witness, where is the evidence? Courts also accept the testimony of a witness, if the witness provides proof. Just an assertion is not enough.
There are false witnesses also. They sell their own importance.
You raise a good point. I say that prayer every day and I never thought of that. So, when we say that prayer we are bearing witness before God that that what follows is true -- that God has created us to know Him and to worship Him. That does not require any evidence or proof because it does not involve a court of law.

Definition of bear witness. 1 : to show that something exists or is true —+ to His success bears witness to the value of hard work. Rising ticket sales bear witness to the band's popularity.

Bear Witness | Definition of Bear Witness by Merriam-Webster
 
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