Frank Goad
Well-Known Member
Ecclesiastes 12:7.Ecclesiastes 12:14. Hebrews 9:27. I have the thinking of a jw witness so I say the answer is no.What do you think?
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There is no spirit that goes beyond death Frank.....our spirit is our breath....nothing more in this context....why do you keep asking the same questions?
There is no spirit that goes beyond death Frank.....our spirit is our breath....nothing more in this context....why do you keep asking the same questions?
Just moments before Jesus died, He said, "Father, into thy hands, I commend my spirit." What on earth do you think His Father would want with a dead spirit? A spirit is a life force. When it resides within a physical body, that body is given life and becomes "a living soul." When the spirit leaves the body at death, the body dies. It's no longer "a living soul." But the spirit that gave it life continues to exist and to await the resurrection -- the time when it will once again enter into the body, making it "a living soul" -- but this time, one that is immortal and will live forever.Ecclesiastes 12:7.Ecclesiastes 12:14. Hebrews 9:27. I have the thinking of a jw witness so I say the answer is no.What do you think?
Because no one gives him the answer he wants
Ecclesiastes 12:7.Ecclesiastes 12:14. Hebrews 9:27. I have the thinking of a jw witness so I say the answer is no.What do you think?
There is no spirit that goes beyond death Frank.....our spirit is our breath....nothing more in this context....why do you keep asking the same questions?
According to what is known, all consciousness is inextricably tied to the brain....something so complex that medical science is still learning about its capacities and capabilities.What is mind and where it is?
Where are your predilections, instincts and memories? Do they finish with bodily elements that go to the earth?
Who or what undergoes judgement?
Deeje.Can you quote and explain my bible passages back to back please?So I can get the feel of jw vs non jw.
According to what is known, all consciousness is inextricably tied to the brain....something so complex that medical science is still learning about its capacities and capabilities.
When we are born, the potential for who we are and what we will become is pretty much laid down in our genes. The rest is decided by our life experiences and circumstances. The “soul”, according to my belief, is the living being, with blood in its veins and breath in its lungs.
The “spirit” that animates all life comes from the Creator. When he created life, he did so with the ability to transmit life (and breath) to the next generation. In animals, all instincts are passed along to ensure the continuing existence of all species. Their wisdom is pre-programmed. For the most part, no one has to teach them how to survive.
Humans are very different....and their impact on their environment and each other is not just governed by instinct, but by choices. (Presumably made with their intelligence, but as we can all see....this has not been demonstrated in the ways that count down through history.) The Bible explains why.
Since I do not believe that any conscious part of us survives death, the “judgment” is of us.....the whole of who we are and our life course and choices, made during our lifetime. At the end of our lives, God knows who we are and more importantly, why we made the choices we did. He doesn’t just read minds...but hearts. (motives and intentions)
The Bible speaks of two judgment periods....one in Noah’s day when God judged the world of that time and found them guilty, thereafter bringing the sentence of death upon them after warning them of his intentions through Noah. No one acted to change their ways.
The second one is about to take place in our time, according to Bible prophesy. Jesus used the days of Noah to illustrate the moral and spiritual conditions that would prevail before that final judgment on this world. (Matthew 24:37-39) He also gave a series of events that would take place before sentence is carried out. (Matthew 24:3-14) No one has seen anything like this present situation. Serious disease epidemics were part of the sign of the end times. “Unprecedented” seems to be a word we are hearing more often when events like this overtake the world and suddenly plunge us into great uncertainty about the future.
What is coming will be a judgment of the living, but what of the dead?
The Bible says that God has promised to restore the lives of ‘both the righteous and the unrighteous’, (John 5:28-29) many of whom never got to hear about the true God or his purpose for this earth and our place in it. He will give them a second chance, to come to know him, but will never interfere with their free willed choices.
The Bible speaks of 1,000 years whereby God will give all humans the opportunity to qualify for citizenship in the earthly realm of his kingdom and to restore his original purpose for this earth.
So according to my Bible based beliefs, we should be concerned about the here and now, because our choices will determine our prospects for the future.
That is how I see it....
Thank you for the detailed note.
If humans are spirit (from God) and brain-genes-blood vessels, then what is judged?
What is there to bee judged?
The spirit is like electricity.....it is empowering, but impersonal so there is nothing to judge. It is the soul (the whole person) who is judged.Can God judge the spirit?
Or can God judge the physical components? And where from our predilections, instincts, and memories?
Details are important to me.
I believe that the "spirit" in man is the life force that is sustained by breathing. This life force is in every cell of our bodies, doing what they were designed to do, keeping everything working as it should to keep us alive...albeit imperfectly at present. All life has this "spirit" which is the very basis of their existence. Its a bit like a computer....you can have all the right components in all the right places, but if there is no power supply, the thing is dead and useless.
Your life course and choices. God judges each person individually according to their capabilities and willingness to do the right thing in following his laws and counsel.
He knows us better than we know ourselves. He knows what motivates our choices and whether they are selfish or altruistic.
The spirit is like electricity.....it is empowering, but impersonal so there is nothing to judge. It is the soul (the whole person) who is judged.
If humans can use technology to retain and store memories of the past; like we can see individuals on the screen who have been dead for decades, alive and well on film. God too can hold the memories of all humans who have lived and died on this planet. His 'technology' is vastly superior to anything humans can produce. In our scripture it says that the Creator knows every star by name....how many stars are there? If he can do that, then the few billion humans who have lived would be no problem to re-create (resurrect) as he has promised.
Though Adam and Eve had the possibility of living forever, that has not been true of their descendants. Adam and Eve had children only after they had sinned. Hence, all their imperfect descendants were born with the prospect of inevitable death. (Romans 5:12; 6:23) This inherited death, therefore, comes to mankind only once. Christ’s sacrifice for mankind will remove the cause of death (sin), and if during God’s judgment day of a thousand years, a resurrected person proves deserving of everlasting destruction, his death will result from his own wickedness, not from inheriting Adam's sin. (Revelation 20:13-15)We are failing to communicate. The Hebrew 9.27 says: And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
So, after death what is subject to judgement? You do not acknowledge a persisting soul (we call it the subtle body or the mind). No?
Though Adam and Eve had the possibility of living forever, that has not been true of their descendants. Adam and Eve had children only after they had sinned. Hence, all their imperfect descendants were born with the prospect of inevitable death. (Romans 5:12; 6:23) This inherited death, therefore, comes to mankind only once. Christ’s sacrifice for mankind will remove the cause of death (sin), and if during God’s judgment day of a thousand years, a resurrected person proves deserving of everlasting destruction, his death will result from his own wickedness, not from inheriting Adam's sin. (Revelation 20:13-15)
Conversely, those who previously had died from inherited sin, but who after resurrection prove faithful, will receive the favorable judgment of everlasting life. (Revelation 21:3-6)
For those who keep God's laws and commandments during their lifetime, a resurrection to life is promised because they were judged worthy of everlasting life by their actions. For those who died without knowing God or his laws, a resurrection for them will be one of judgment. They will have 1,000 years to prove themselves worthy.....if not, they will forfeit the gift of life.
That is my understanding.
We are failing to communicate. The Hebrew 9.27 says: And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
So, after death what is subject to judgement? You do not acknowledge a persisting soul (we call it the subtle body or the mind). No?
The answer to your question is a very easy one. So what is subject to judgement? You are. Or we are.
The afterlife is from pagan beliefs, like from Egypt and Babylon. It is not from God. Hope this helps.
to raise some one from death and then give then a judgment of death is not what really happens .The answer to your question is a very easy one. So what is subject to judgement? You are. Or we are. Resurrection was also preached by the apostles too, esp in Acts. Everyone knew about it. Scripture also tells us that when Christ returns, the first thing he is going to do is raise the dead. Then, it's judgement.
No where in scripture does it tell us that when you die, a part of your body goes somewhere else. When your dead, your dead until resurrection. Period!! We have to remember that we ARE a soul, not "given one". "Spirit" can mean a few different things too, like life or the way I'm feeling today, etc, etc. Stephen gave up his spirit which only means he gave up his life.
The problem with the world is there are afraid of death. They dont want to be told that when your dead, your dead and cease to exist. There is nothing in death, everything is gone, your memories, thoughts, life, everything. So what hope to we have then? Scripture tells us about the resurrection. When Christ returns, only then... he brings with him and gives us our rewards. Eternal life. It's not heaven going we are judged, we are judged at the Lord's return.
The afterlife is from pagan beliefs, like from Egypt and Babylon. It is not from God. Hope this helps.
But we are just clay and spirit, which is from God. What is under judgement?
I see. God seems very partial.
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Thank you @Deeje and @moorea944 for your efforts. It is fascinating but I am a slow taker. Sorry about that. I feel that my basic questions are unanswered. Rather we get some racial comment that other religions are not from God.
I wish for the sake of ultimate clarity that anyone of you could chronicle the events and options from before birth to death of a person XYZ -- through the stone-hood (?), through the judgement, and ultimate possible resurrection. I also wish that you will precisely explain as to what is the role of Spirit and the source of a born man's ego and intelligence while alive and what happens to the ego-intelligence after the death of that person. And who is judged for a mere lifetime of sins and omissions? any reader, including this one, will be benefited if the explanations are bulleted.
Thanks in advance.
to raise some one from death and then give then a judgment of death is not what really happens .
Romans 6:
6 For we know that our old personality was nailed to the stake along with him in order for our sinful body to be made powerless, so that we should no longer go on being slaves to sin. 7 For the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin.
they paid the price for sin by dying. with the Resurrection people would then be without sin. if that person can then live with out sin there would be no reason for them to receive a judgment of death.