Ideas and resources for people practicing and promoting better online behavior?

[Jim]

I just discovered that a thread I was posting in might have been started for the purpose of shoving unwanted scriptures into people’s faces. Also recently I’ve been seeing more off-topic preaching about one philosophy or another in threads that I’ve started. I reported it a few times, but I’ve given that up. Even if the staff wanted to stop that from happening, it would be impossible when thread topic means so little to so many people. I need to learn not to ever imagine that anyone else ever cares about trying to follow forum rules, themselves, or that they will be systematically enforced.

That leaves me with the problem of discussions I’m in being continually vandalized, and of being tricked repeatedly by misleading titles and OPs into discussions that I would rather avoid. I know it isn’t always intentional and I know that sometimes the titles and OPs of threads that I’ve started have been misunderstood by others and drawn them into discussions that were frustrating for them. One way I see for me to respond to all that is to use the behavior that I don’t like as a reminder to learn not to do that myself, and as a reminder to look for behavior that I do like, and find some way to encourage and support it, at least with ratings if I don’t have any better ideas.

 

[Jim]

I don’t think that cruelty and personal attacks will always be as popular in Internet discussions as they are now, and I think that there are things that anyone who wants to can do to help make them unpopular, if we care enough to be willing to be targets of them ourselves. First, continually working to improve our own behavior. Another way might be to help educate people about how to respond to that behavior when we see it happening. One way I’ve tried to educate people about a topic is learning more about it myself and posting about what I’m learning.

in this post I want to discuss the idea of speaking up more against cruelty and personal attacks, as a serious moral and social issue. I might not be alone in condemning that behavior as wrong, and harmful to everyone including the person who is doing it. I might not be alone in despising people’s denials and lame excuses for that behavior.

 

[Jim]

I want to make it clear that I am not proposing counterattacks, or naming and shaming, against people individually when they’re being cruel or attacking people personally. I condemn that behavior, and despise people’s excuses for it, as much as any other personal attacks. What I’m proposing is for people who see it as a moral and social issue to speak up about it more often and more openly, one way or another.

It might be helpful to try to be clear in our minds about what kind of behavior we’re denouncing. Currently I’m thinking of it as defaming a person’s character, capacities, motives and intentions. Even though everyone knows that it’s against forum rules, I’ve seen people openly admitting that they do it Intentionally, making excuses for it, and even bragging about it. I’m denouncing that behavior, despising people’s excuses for it, and hoping that others will too. Worst of all I’ve seen people saying that they enjoy seeing the suffering that it causes, which I dare to say is just evil.

 

[Jim]

I’ve decided to openly denounce cruelty and personal attacks in Internet discussions sometimes, as morally wrong, inexcusable and a serious social issue, and I’m hoping for other people to do that too sometimes. Not in personal attacks against people doing it, but in some general way, for example like I’m doing here. I’ll list some examples of the kinds of the kunds of behavior that I’m denouncing:
- Jabbing and stabbing at a person and stinging them with words.
- Calling attention to a person’s religion or (non)belief category and jabbing and stabbing at it.
- Defaming a person’s character, capacities, motives and intentions.

Sometimes all that is very skillfully camouflaged and wrapped in politeness, tactfulness and kind words. Some of the worst behavior I’ve seen is personal attacks targeting people individually to malign and scold them for their hurtful behavior.

I’m planning now to openly denounce those and other kinds of toxic inline behavior sometimes, as I’m doing now in this post, as morally wrong, inexcusable, and a serious social issue. I’m hoping that others will too. Anyone who does might need to be prepared to become a target for it themselves, including:
- Denying that it’s happening, sometimes in the form of asking for specific examples.
- Various kinds of personal attacks, trying to defame, shame and humiliate anyone who objects to toxic behavior, or to fool or intimidate them into silence about it or submission to it.
- Comments and questions designed to create doubts and confusion about the issue or to divert attention from it, for example into debates about definitions.

 

[Jim]

Cruelty and personal attacks in Internet discussions might need and deserve to be denounced as much as domestic violence and child abuse. Denouncing cruelty and personal attacks online might be part of what is needed to help stop cruelty and violence offline.

I don’t think that most of it is intentional, but I do see people saying sometimes that they do it intentionally, and making excuses for it. That’s one reason that I think it needs to be openly denounced, as morally wrong, harmful to everyone, and a serious social issue, closely intertwined with every kind of offline cruelty and violence.

 

[Ayjaydee]

I’ve decided to openly denounce cruelty and personal attacks in Internet discussions sometimes, as morally wrong, inexcusable and a serious social issue, and I’m hoping for other people to do that too sometimes. Not in personal attacks against people doing it, but in some general way, for example like I’m doing here. I’ll list some examples of the kinds of the kunds of behavior that I’m denouncing:
- Jabbing and stabbing at a person and stinging them with words.
- Calling attention to a person’s religion or (non)belief category and jabbing and stabbing at it.
- Defaming a person’s character, capacities, motives and intentions.

Sometimes all that is very skillfully camouflaged and wrapped in politeness, tactfulness and kind words. Some of the worst behavior I’ve seen is personal attacks targeting people individually to malign and scold them for their hurtful behavior.

im planning now to openly denounce those and other kinds of toxic inline behavior sometimes, as I’m doing now in this post, as morally wrong, inexcusable, and a serious social issue. I’m hoping that others will too. Anyone who does might need to be prepared to become a target for it themselves, including:
- Denying that it’s happening, sometimes in the form of asking for specific examples.
- Various kinds of personal attacks, trying to defame, shame and humiliate anyone who objects to toxic behavior, or to fool or intimidate them into silence about it or submission to it.
- Comments and questions designed to create doubts and confusion about the issue or to divert attention from it, for example into debates about definitions.

Admins may see that as personal attacks as well and you may be cautioned and/ or banned

 

[Jim]

I’m using another thread now to discuss what to do about cruelty and personal attacks in Internet discussions: Ideas for reducing and counteracting effects of psychological abuse

I’ll still be using this thread to discuss other ideas about practicing and promoting better online behavior.

 

[Jim]

I think that complaining about people’s behavior in Internet discussions without making a clear and sharp distinction between criticism of ideas, and cruelty and personal attacks, is part of what helps to perpetuate cruelty and personal attacks.

 

[Jim]

I’m using another thread now to discuss what to do about cruelty and personal attacks in Internet discussions: Ideas for helping to reduce and counteract the ravages of human nature

I’ll still be using this thread to discuss other ideas about practicing and promoting better online behavior.

 

[Jim]

I want say that that using honesty, integrity and other virtues as excuses for hostile behavior is just evil.

 

[Jim]

Here’s an idea for anyone who wants to help reduce and counteract harmful behavior in Internet discussions:

 

[Jim]

I think that part of what will help reduce harmful behavior in internet discussions and counteract its effects is people caring more about other people, enough to do what needs to be done, and put that ahead of their own self-gratification, every time they use the forums. Another part of what will help might be people seeing it more as a moral and social issue, for example seeing cruelty and personal attacks as morally wrong and intertwined with of some of the most serious social issues of our time including child abuse; and feeling a moral and social responsibility to try to help reduce it and counteract its effects.

Part of what I think makes it a moral issue is that when people continually reward harmful behavior with ratings, give it more of a platform with comments applauding it or with counterattacks, and fail to show friendliness to the targets, then they are trespassing and using the forums dishonestly and treacherously, violating the agreement that they made, to be allowed to post here.

RF MISSION STATEMENT

As a community of diverse cultural and religious backgrounds, our aim is to provide a civil environment, informative, respectful and welcoming where people of diverse beliefs can discuss, compare and debate religion while engaging in fellowship with one another.

Note that it says “while engaging in fellowship with one another.“

Subverting or undermining the forum mission is a violation of rule 9, and I think that continually rewarding harmful behavior with ratings, giving it more of a platform with approval in comments or with counterattacks, and failing to show friendliness to targets of cruelty and personal attacks, subvert and undermine the forum mission.

Part of what I think makes it a social issue is that the popularity of cruelty and personal attacks online, which can be seen in the “like”s, “winner”s and favorable comments they often get, might be part of what is helping to perpetuate all the worst cruelty, violence and oppression in the world around us.

 

[Jim]

Sometimes it takes a lot of effort for me to not respond to posts that misrepresent what I’m saying and doing in ways that stigmatize me, and to think about them in the same way that I think about other harmful behavior. Not responding to those posts, especially when they are masquerading as friendliness, takes more attention and effort than not responding to obvious personal attacks.

 

[Jim]

I see a thread calling for moderators to act more strongly against “hate speech.”

I think that the ideas of “hate speech” and “freedom of speech” are too politicized and polarizing to be useful for any beneficial purpose.

 

[Jim]

The biggest reason that I see for widespread cruelty and violence is a moral vacuum in which any excuse will do for people to indulge their worst impulses.

 

[Jim]

One reason that I see for widespread cruelty and violence is a moral vacuum in which any excuse will do for people to indulge their worst impulses. The popularity of cruelty and personal attacks across faction lines might be more a symptom than a cause of that, and what will happen to change online behavior might be mostly offline. Even so, I think that anything we can do to reduce the popularity of cruelty and personal attacks online might make a lot of difference offline, in the lives of many people.

I’ll post this idea again, for anyone who wants to help improve online behavior:

If anyone has any other ideas, I would be glad to see them.

 

[Jim]

A discussion in another thread brought some forums behavior issues to my mind:

- How to respond to harmful behavior in Internet discussions.
- How to respond to misinformation.
- How to help reduce and counteract the long term psychological damage that can happen to people when they are targets of popular stereotypes and prejudices.
- How to help free people from their prejudices and delusions.

I’ll be posting some ideas here about all that. If anyone else has any ideas, I’ll be glad to see them.

I posted some ideas here about helping to reduce and counteract psychological damage：

Ideas for helping to reduce and counteract the ravages of human nature

 

[Jim]

I think that when people are fishing for ratings and approval from their faction, with cruelty and personal attacks against the faction’s adversaries, they are mostly denying to themselves that they are doing that, and impervious to any efforts to try to reason them out of it. Protesting and arguing against what they’re saying gives them more of a platform and more reason to continue, without doing anything to deter them or to counteract whatever harm they might be doing.

 

[Jim]

Part of what I think helps perpetuate harmful behavior is people denying that it’s a problem, or making excuses for it. For example:
- An unavoidable consequence of debating.
- Just part of the game.

 

[Jim]

Some of what I’ve been doing in these forums is practicing and promoting ideas for helping Internet discussions do less harm and more good. I know that I’m not the only one doing that, and I think that some other people have been doing it all along, better than I ever have. I thought that discussions about it between us might help us all do even better.

A few times I’ve seen people saying openly that they are intentionally cruel to people or that they intentionally use personal attacks, sometimes even saying that it’s part of the fun for them here. Personal attacks across faction lines often get “like”s and “winner”s. I see people denying that it’s a problem, making excuses for it, and stigmatizing people who object to it, and no one but me objecting to any of that. I don’t see any sign that anyone besides me sees as much evil in that as I do.

Trying to discuss with people what we can do for Internet discussions to do less harm and more good continually brings me face to face with what look to me like some evil forces at work in the discussions, too dark and dangerous for me to face alone.