I depends on whether you believe peace will come about by destruction or through transformation.
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Is There No Way To Save Humanity From Its Self?
- Thread starter wizanda
- Start date
I depends on whether you believe peace will come about by destruction or through transformation.
According to Zoroastrian, Dharmic, and Abrahamic texts the final messenger comes to warn mankind of the forthcoming Judgement Day on mankind; then after there is world peace.
In each ideology there is a Final Battle, then a Holy Fire that comes from the sky to cleanse mankind, and then after an age of Godliness.
With many following made up ideas, that the Messiah is a savoir of mankind, instead of ultimately coming before the destruction - is there anyway to turn it around?
Does anyone know a place the Messiah/Final Avatar can bring peace to the world, without the destruction coming?
In my opinion.
I don't know if it would be a matter of a "place" but more a matter of "time."
I think of the lyrics of the song "Jesus Christ Superstar," which raises some interesting points:
You'd have managed better
If you'd had it planned
Now why'd you choose such a backward time
And such a strange land?
If you'd come today
You could have reached a whole nation
Israel in 4 BC
Had no mass communication
Perhaps there might have been some better times in history where a Messiah's guidance could have been more helpful to change the direction of mankind. Perhaps during the time of Christopher Columbus, the presence of some kind of "Messiah" might have shifted the course of history.
Or maybe during the time of the American and French Revolutions in the late 18th century, a Messiah might have made a difference.
This is part of the issue I have with the way religion often presents the "end of the world" scenario. Humans are typically left to their own devices until they inevitably screw things up past the point of no return (which is where we seem to be at today). And even religion seems to suggest that there could be no other outcome, since humans are what they are: "We are all sinners." And that seems to be built in to our design, as the flesh is weak.
Could humanity turn things around? I suppose it's possible, but it would require a very rigid, regimented, global society which some people might think would be close to the Borg from Star Trek. A world where individual identity, along with individual wants, desires, and other weaknesses of the flesh are somehow eliminated while everyone is driven towards the good of the collective whole. There would be no wars, since all humans would be unified within the same entity. There would be no crime, no stealing, no lying, no adultery (although I can't imagine that there would be "marriage" in the traditional sense), no envy, no coveting, no gluttony, no greed, no hate, no pride.
Of course, some people may resist and dislike that kind of society, since it would appear that every member would be a bunch of zombies. But it might save us from destruction for our debauched, violent, and other sinful ways.
How true that is:
Let's hope no other country takes America's place at the top and decides we need a lesson in "peace."
*spits out tea in surprise*
I think you seriously overestimate the visibility of this forum.
Nimos
Well-Known Member
Does it matter ultimately, if one is religious?According to Zoroastrian, Dharmic, and Abrahamic texts the final messenger comes to warn mankind of the forthcoming Judgement Day on mankind; then after there is world peace.
In each ideology there is a Final Battle, then a Holy Fire that comes from the sky to cleanse mankind, and then after an age of Godliness.
With many following made up ideas, that the Messiah is a savoir of mankind, instead of ultimately coming before the destruction - is there anyway to turn it around?
Does anyone know a place the Messiah/Final Avatar can bring peace to the world, without the destruction coming?
In my opinion.
If the Messiah is coming as a saviour, this should be seen as something good right? So what exactly is the problem?
If he comes to destroy the world, because we don't do as he think we should. But at the same time choose to sit in his throne or whatever looking at us, while shaking his head and just waiting to push the button. Well screw him then, I would say the faster the better rather than living in constant fear of it.
So I hope the real reason people care, is because of feeling a responsibility for humankind and other lifeforms, and especially for those that have to live here after us.
The word 'anointed' in Hebrew can also mean the 'destroyer'; so the Messiah doesn't come as the saviour, they made that bit up to make it sellable to people.
Instead the Messiah came to establish a Snare to remove all the wicked.
In my opinion.
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
According to Zoroastrian, Dharmic, and Abrahamic texts the final messenger comes to warn mankind of the forthcoming Judgement Day on mankind; then after there is world peace.
In each ideology there is a Final Battle, then a Holy Fire that comes from the sky to cleanse mankind, and then after an age of Godliness.
With many following made up ideas, that the Messiah is a savoir of mankind, instead of ultimately coming before the destruction - is there anyway to turn it around?
Does anyone know a place the Messiah/Final Avatar can bring peace to the world, without the destruction coming?
In my opinion.
Mankind cannot save itself from itself because of its basic nature.
Actually, the solution to mankind's problems is to no longer be man-kind.
Problem 1: Lack of experience and permanence. We die, and successive generations of newbies are born who really can't be expected to get everything right the first time.
Even if one generation got everything right, the next could mess it up.
Problem 2: One generation getting everything right does not benefit any who have died. The dead cannot apply their experience. Once we start to get our act together, it's over.
Problem 3: Lack of/lack of adherence to universal, capable, righteous/righteously powerful government and law. Incorruptible power, government and law is a necessity.
Even if we could all agree on principles, acting according to them is another issue. Corruptible mankind attempting to enforce one government over successive generations would be anything from problematic to nightmarish.
Problem 4: Bodies essentially bound to Earth. Even though we die, the population of Earth grows -and colonizing other planets constantly would be extremely difficult to impossible, especially if we are to outpace population growth. That's not even considering making it a pleasant and worthwhile experience.
Anyway.... we need permanence -eternal life, actually. We need to be made incorruptible. We need different bodies. We need government more powerful than all mankind combined.
Biblically, the "final battle" happens after mankind almost wipes itself out -and that final battle PREVENTS such.
Then the former works on Earth will eventually be burned up -the topography drastically changed to allow for better and more natural resources -and those who remain alive on Earth will repopulate.
They will live under the government of God, Christ, and those who were in the first resurrection (of ALL NATIONS) who reign with Christ on Earth for the first thousand years. The rest of the dead live again afterward. Humans will continue to be made immortal and this ("glorious" bodies -like Christ's glorious body -"according to the working thereof he is able to subdue all things unto himself") will allow us to move out into -and create throughout -the universe.
Our experience in this time was necessary to make all of that possible.
Yeshua 2k ago did lots of action, and people do not understand his teachings still or that he was the Messiah...
So I've spent time trying to fix the previous errors, as currently most of the world is about to fight each other over the disagreements.
The Messiah when understood properly can fix the world's religious differences, as much of the ongoing fighting is because of the confusions over the theological system.
It isn't prophesied the Messiah will save the world though; the Messiah comes to announce Judgement Day is coming (Luke 17:20-37), as people will not listen to the corrections.
In my opinion.
According to Zoroastrian, Dharmic, and Abrahamic texts the final messenger comes to warn mankind of the forthcoming Judgement Day on mankind; then after there is world peace.
In each ideology there is a Final Battle, then a Holy Fire that comes from the sky to cleanse mankind, and then after an age of Godliness.
With many following made up ideas, that the Messiah is a savoir of mankind, instead of ultimately coming before the destruction - is there anyway to turn it around?
Does anyone know a place the Messiah/Final Avatar can bring peace to the world, without the destruction coming?
In my opinion.
Creation and destruction go hand in hand. You can't have one without the other. Creation of the new is destruction of the old. The problem as I see it is not so much the destruction but whether or not you manage to survive it.
Too bad there is no god who can reliably create humans who understand secular, peaceful, language.
But there obviously isn't any such God.
One thing I know for sure is that there is no God who cares about religion or ethics or suffering. That is utterly undeniable. If there were such a god creation would be very different from what it obviously is.
Obviously.
By obviously, I mean that any sentient being can perceive this for themselves if they care about reality. It's right there in front of them.
If they prefer to have faith in demonstrably false things that make them feel important, they could believe in anything. Satan, Jesus, Muhammad, Shiva, whatever.
It doesn't matter what you believe if what matters is feeling superior.
Tom
Samantha Rinne
Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
According to Zoroastrian, Dharmic, and Abrahamic texts the final messenger comes to warn mankind of the forthcoming Judgement Day on mankind; then after there is world peace.
In each ideology there is a Final Battle, then a Holy Fire that comes from the sky to cleanse mankind, and then after an age of Godliness.
With many following made up ideas, that the Messiah is a savoir of mankind, instead of ultimately coming before the destruction - is there anyway to turn it around?
Does anyone know a place the Messiah/Final Avatar can bring peace to the world, without the destruction coming?
In my opinion.
"World peace" is one of those open-ended phrases that you must beware of. If ever a leader promises "world peace" consider running the other way.
Why? Because world peace can also mean "nobody is alive to fight." In fact, in much the same way, the Bible promises 1000 years of peace, and that evil will be locked under the ground. It's possible this pertains to all Christians having gone to the Afterlife, and the Gospel getting lost for a millennium, while all of the other fools are stuck on a ruined Earth.
If you're looking for peace without sacrifice, you probably won't find it though. Something about having to break eggs to make an omelet.
Yohanan ben Yaaqov
Member
Choose to do what is right as opposed to choosing to what is wrong; It's not really rocket science.
MonkeyFire
Well-Known Member
If the angel of destruction went to hell it would be a beautiful thing, while equanimity has ultimate power over it, safe from Heaven.
Ancient Soul
The Spiritual Universe
Whilst some sit creating peace inside themselves, others create the opposite extreme.
The reason the Final Battle happens is because Zionism/Christendom Vs Muhammadanism are fighting each other, with no one really fixing the dilemma between the religious texts...
It is very easy to fix: John, Paul, and Simon the stone (peter) were/are Pharisaic (Christianity), and contradict Yeshua in the Synoptic Gospels (Ebionites/Followers of The Way).
The Quran states they've edited the texts, and that a Muslim is to read all the worlds (Quran 10:47) religious texts without distinction (Quran 2:285).
When a Muslim (Servant of the Source) becomes a theologian of all religion as one; like a glue between the rest, then mankind will stop competing which is best.
As for the Messiah being someone who puts forward a personalized teaching system, it has never been about that; Yeshua came to cut off Judah, and explain the prophecies - Christianity made it into a cult after, and now the whole world has a similar cult mentality system, of playing follow the leader, rather than follow The Way.
In my opinion.
No, Amanaki is absolutely right. It's not up to any religion or person(s) to save humanity. It's entirely up to each individual to spiritually evolve enough to "save themselves" from themselves. Nobody else can make them do that.
Actually, that's the whole problem. Everybody wants someone else to do everything for them. They want to sit there like lazy oafs and have someone spoon feed them some crazy man made religion that never does anything to solve anything or magically make them more "spiritual" because they NEVER do anything for themselves. So most people will always sit there all stupid, lazy, and unwilling to DO anything to make themselves better, more spiritual, or help in resolving humanities problems, while the problems of the whole world comes crashing down upon them.
Invisibilis
Member
In the heart of all people.
Destruction is of the body. Those who choose to be a some-body will be destroyed. Those who choose to be a no-body will not be destroyed. It's every-bodies individual choice.
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
There's always a final messenger until the next one comes along.According to Zoroastrian, Dharmic, and Abrahamic texts the final messenger comes to warn mankind of the forthcoming Judgement Day on mankind; then after there is world peace.
In each ideology there is a Final Battle, then a Holy Fire that comes from the sky to cleanse mankind, and then after an age of Godliness.
With many following made up ideas, that the Messiah is a savoir of mankind, instead of ultimately coming before the destruction - is there anyway to turn it around?
Does anyone know a place the Messiah/Final Avatar can bring peace to the world, without the destruction coming?
In my opinion.
I think that overpopulation might prevent real progress on utopia because it stresses people out. However, dip the population too low and now nobody can get lots of things done. Needs to be a happy medium somewhere.
The ages of Godliness as you call it all end up getting screwed up in time. We need to study the roots of our behavior because I don't think even Heaven on Earth (or even Heaven in Heaven) is eternally perfect, given that bad things happen in these places. Clearly there are some vital premises we are missing and that's why utopian attempts don't work.
Hidingfromyou
Member
No worries, you're good. First, no doomsday prophet has been correct . . . ever. So that's settled. Second, no religion has been proved correct . . . ever! So you're good there too.
Just live your life, enjoy, you're fine.
Just live your life, enjoy, you're fine.
But religion doesn't necessarily teach people to choose to do the right thing. Not that religion never does, but all too often religion teaches people to obey which is not at all the same.
As long as they're obeying truly moral authorities it's fine. But if the authorities aren't so moral we get disasters. Or if the authorities lose that power for some reason we get disasters.
If you teach people why moral behavior is in their own best interests, right here and now and not in some vague afterlife, they're more likely to consistently choose moral behavior.
Abrahamic religions aren't very good at that.
Tom
JesusKnowsYou
Active Member
No - and it is my opinion that we wouldn't want it any other way.According to Zoroastrian, Dharmic, and Abrahamic texts the final messenger comes to warn mankind of the forthcoming Judgement Day on mankind; then after there is world peace.
In each ideology there is a Final Battle, then a Holy Fire that comes from the sky to cleanse mankind, and then after an age of Godliness.
With many following made up ideas, that the Messiah is a savoir of mankind, instead of ultimately coming before the destruction - is there anyway to turn it around?
Does anyone know a place the Messiah/Final Avatar can bring peace to the world, without the destruction coming?
In my opinion.