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What would the world look like without clergy?

Muffled

Jesus in me
Faith is more often than not a justification for war and a ralying point for the mass not a cause of it.

I believe I can agree. Most wars occur because of greed or power and those who oppose it. There were a few wars to convert people to a religion but the Qu'ran says that doesn't work.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
How would you know because there probably never has been a time without any.

Oops. I will edit that. Communist Russia and China which managed to kill off millions of people.
The Russian Orthodox Church was in league with the Tsarist regime. They were effectively part of the government. That's why the Communists got rid of the Orthodox priests as part of overthrowing the government.

If the Orthodox Church had not actively participated in the oppression of the Russian people, they probably would have fared better.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
As I see it, clergy is needed for those that need religion that are incapable of understanding their respective religion or its corresponding scripture in layman's terms, or those that are too lazy to do any research and learn for themselves.

I think without clergy, the world would have even more religious zealots, fundamentalists, and extremists than it does today.

I believe Baptists believe in the priesthood of believers so for what its worth we are all clergymen.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
How would you know because there probably never has been a time without any.

Oops. I will edit that. Communist Russia and China which managed to kill off millions of people.

I san only go off my knowledge. Then can and often do drive violence. They can and often do, misinform. And of course there would be no child abuse instigated by clergy,

Re your edit, yet religion has beat them on numbers killed.
 

Ancient Soul

The Spiritual Universe
Not that bombastic claim again!

So how come all Christians claim that, and yet NONE of them can agree on much of anything about what is or is not "true" or "false" about their mythology?

I'm thinking it's more the "Spirit of Demons" telling each Christian something entirely different and then LAUGHING at them all as they all fight among themselves on who has it "right" and who has it "wrong".

Not bombastic at all. Even children disagree with their parents even though parents know better. People are still people and don't want to listen to the Holy Spirit.

They didn't even want to listen to Jesus Christ when he was speaking to them directly directly. Then you have so many voices and influences that create static. Like the old radio where you had to fine tune the station to remove other competing stations.

Even you disagree and yet I tell you the truth. 1 John 2:27 His anointing teaches you all that you need to know, for it will lead you into truth, not a counterfeit. So just as the anointing has taught you, remain in him. TPT

Oh, now that is even more bombastic a claim, that ONLY you have this "Spirit of Truth" to help YOU discern what is of God or not.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
Hi everyone!

As a follow up to my previous thread I created this one because I think they are very closely connected, we each have been given eyes to see for ourselves and a mind to think with for ourselves so why do we need clergy?

Haven’t we arrived at a place in history with the internet where we can investigate truth for ourselves?

As opposed to Prophets, clergy have not been given any special powers by religious scriptures so why do people follow them and what if the world were free from clergy and we each independently investigated truth with our own minds?

What do you think the world would look like without clergy?

Without clergy, there would have never been the 12 Apostles... So Christianity would have likely died out immediately upon Christs death and resurrection.

So there would be no Christian faith, perhaps.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
I believe Baptists believe in the priesthood of believers so for what its worth we are all clergymen.

I wonder why Jesus selected 12 Apostles rather than just having all Disciples. Just throwing that out there, because it's something I've thought about much in the past.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Hi everyone!

As a follow up to my previous thread I created this one because I think they are very closely connected, we each have been given eyes to see for ourselves and a mind to think with for ourselves so why do we need clergy?

Haven’t we arrived at a place in history with the internet where we can investigate truth for ourselves?

As opposed to Prophets, clergy have not been given any special powers by religious scriptures so why do people follow them and what if the world were free from clergy and we each independently investigated truth with our own minds?

What do you think the world would look like without clergy?
Priests and priestesses aren't regarded as anything that special in European polytheism. They basically just preside over religious rites and tend to the temples and such. Anyone can do it, basically. Poets and seers are the truly divinely gifted ones.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Without clergy, there would have never been the 12 Apostles... So Christianity would have likely died out immediately upon Christs death and resurrection.

So there would be no Christian faith, perhaps.

As far as I know they were followers not leaders. Chrust was the leader and they were His followers. They were especially selected and appointed by Him to carry on His work but after that there was no clear successor and Christianity fell into division and warring sects.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
As far as I know they were followers not leaders. Chrust was the leader and they were His followers. They were especially selected and appointed by Him to carry on His work but after that there was no clear successor and Christianity fell into division and warring sects.

Interesting perspective.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Clergy in that context would be a priesthood of some sort. People who are believed and entrusted to be leaders of a religious faith, the guardian of its teachings with a cetain moral authority over other believers.

You will find that most religions have people that are looked up to as sages, but I don't think I would consider some of them 'clergy' as defined above. 'Clergy', at least for me, implies some sort of elected hierarchy of leaders in the religious organization, as many Abrahamic faiths such as Catholicism and other Christian traditions, Judaism, etc. have. Members of the religions typically view a clergy member as having a special relationship with, or as being closer to God.

As @Quintessence has already stated, contemporary pagan religions have no clergy. Also included in that list would be Jainism, Hinduism, Quakers, and Unitarian Universalism.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
What about all the wars and murders leaders have commanded their followers to commit? In the Quran it is forbidden to attack first but Muslim leaders have broken this law over the centuries and told their followers to commit mass murder of innocent people.

Had the followers studied the Quran for themselves many would have seen clearly that their leaders were disobeying the laws of the Quran and refused to take part in such atrocities. But as they never questioned their leaders nor checked what the Holy Texts said many innocent people have been slaughtered including Hindus.

These things happen when the clergy replace the Holy Book and the followers replace the authority of the Holy Book with leaders who have no real God given authority.

Are you implying it was the clergy members who have led these people to war? Clergy members that have commanded their followers to murder?

Which ones specifically?
 

epronovost

Well-Known Member
You will find that most religions have people that are looked up to as sages, but I don't think I would consider some of them 'clergy' as defined above. 'Clergy', at least for me, implies some sort of elected hierarchy of leaders in the religious organization, as many Abrahamic faiths such as Catholicism and other Christian traditions, Judaism, etc. have. Members of the religions typically view a clergy member as having a special relationship with, or as being closer to God.

Wouldn't the idea of a hierarchy of priests with bishops (or an equivalent) at their head be referred to as an episcopate?
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Wouldn't the idea of a hierarchy of priests with bishops (or an equivalent) at their head be referred to as an episcopate?

I’ve always thought that an episcopate was related to the office of bishop, not the hierarchy itself, but I could be wrong, as I’m not all that familiar with the term.
 

Ancient Soul

The Spiritual Universe
As far as I know they were followers not leaders. Chrust was the leader and they were His followers. They were especially selected and appointed by Him to carry on His work but after that there was no clear successor and Christianity fell into division and warring sects.

Who's Chrust?
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Are you implying it was the clergy members who have led these people to war? Clergy members that have commanded their followers to murder?

Which ones specifically?

In my opinion and belief all the religious wars in history both the leaders were wrong and the followers for allowing themselves to kill in the name of God because religion is for love and harmony nothing else and if it is abused then both leaders and followers are to blame and responsible to God..
 
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