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If you believe in love, you believe in God

WhyIsThatSo

Well-Known Member
Sue someone who needs help? Nah.

You seem stricken with the spirit of the escalator.

At such times it is best not to even attempt a response.
"Spirit" , yes...… "escalator", no
and I could use your help......do you have a couple hundred $$, I could borrow ?
lol
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
Because God is love.
If His love is like it is in the bible, I'd hate to see what His hate looks like.

A lot of atheists believe in hate so there shouldnt be a problem.
So does Yahweh.
16There are six things that the LORD hates,
seven that are detestable to Him:
17haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood
18a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that run swiftly to evil,
19a false witness who gives false testimony,
and one who stirs up discord among brothers.

(Also, Jesus thought rather highly of himself, devises the wicked scheme of putting people in hell, and falsely accuses Satan of lying, AND promised to sow discord among brothers.)

you might want to look at the hatred within. it seems to be distorting your lens
I personally think it's worse to be Harley Quinn to Yahweh's Joker.

Poison Ivy is a much better match anyway. :)
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
If His love is like it is in the bible, I'd hate to see what His hate looks like.


So does Yahweh.
16There are six things that the LORD hates,
seven that are detestable to Him:
17haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood
18a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that run swiftly to evil,
19a false witness who gives false testimony,
and one who stirs up discord among brothers.

(Also, Jesus thought rather highly of himself, devises the wicked scheme of putting people in hell, and falsely accuses Satan of lying, AND promised to sow discord among brothers.)


I personally think it's worse to be Harley Quinn to Yahweh's Joker.

Poison Ivy is a much better match anyway. :)

If you love your kids -- say a class of children you teach....
then you hate it when they hurt each other. (just a fact)

16There are six things that the LORD hates,
seven that are detestable to Him:
17haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood
18a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that run swiftly to evil,
19a false witness who gives false testimony,
and one who stirs up discord among brothers.

If you love the people, then you hate those harmful things they do to each other.

A God that did not care about us....would not care if we harm each other....

Evidently, this one described hates those ways people hurt other people.

Also, really, almost everyone is aware that Jesus is the one that was willing to die from our evils to try to save us from those evils.

Just sayin'.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
And caring is an emotion. i am not talking about 'like'. I am talking about 'love'. Both are emotions, although different emotions. It seems that you think that atheists are incapable of love. And, of course, that is both wrong and rather condescending.

Love is a wonderful emotion that makes life worth living. But it *is* an emotion.

So, apparently, we have very different idea of love. I don’t think it is an emotion, but if you want to call your emotion love, you are free. Maybe it would then be better not to use the word, because it can cause misunderstanding.
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
So, apparently, we have very different idea of love. I don’t think it is an emotion, but if you want to call your emotion love, you are free. Maybe it would then be better not to use the word, because it can cause misunderstanding.
Sometimes I think not only are there something like 7.8 billion unique minds (current population), unique viewpoints.... Unique understandings.

But even also 7.8 billion unique flavors of love, at this moment. Or maybe more.

But it is true that there is no greater love than to be willing to lay down one's life for others, for their rescue, or even just potential rescue(!) should they choose to accept.... Just to give them a choice.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Because God is love.
So all the atheists who believe in love?
I believe in love as well as God(sorta, but not your God image). My god image is so different from most theistic images that I generally identify as atheist to save time.
My God image is the essence of Kalam. The reason that there is something, rather than nothing, is God. God is the Ground of Being, the Original Source. But nothing about an ineffable Sky King with Superpowers, as is the standard here in the Abrahamic world I live in. But I certainly do believe in God. I just don't see any reason to think that God cares about anything, any more than gravity or electricity care about anything.

Then there's Love. By love, I mean the Agape sort of love. It's too bad that modern Christian English is so poor at describing love.
By Agape I mean the recognition that we're all in this together. People need love to have the most fulfilling and secure and satisfying lives. Without Agape, we'd quickly be back to the Hobbesian existence of most wild animals, nasty brutish and short. We have many words to describe various aspects of Agape. Like comraderery and compassion, advice and help, attention and fairness. The list is quite long. But it all comes back to the same thing. We're all in this together, and we'll all have the best lives if everybody exhibits and accepts Agape.

So, the bottom line is " We all need love. But we must love one another, because there is no God who will do it for us."
Tom
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
It's too bad that modern Christian English is so poor at describing love.
I agree that modern people tend to mean something less good than agape. They can even mean something a lot more like "I love you like I love oatmeal raisin cookies" (love you because I like how you benefit me)

But here is a try at describing love (famous also) that is worth looking at:

"If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

1 Corinthians 13 NIV
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
I agree that modern people tend to mean something less good than agape. They can even mean something a lot more like "I love you like I love oatmeal raisin cookies" (love you because I like how you benefit me)

But here is a try at describing love (famous also) that is worth looking at:

"If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

1 Corinthians 13 NIV

As far as I can see, we are just using a different definition of the term 'emotion', not of the term 'love'.

In any case, love is a human (emotion, feeling, attitude, your choice) and not anything supernatural. And that is the basic point I was making.

So to identify a supernatural being (God) with a human (emotion, feeling, attitude, etc) seems to me to be greatly mistaken.

There is also an underlying implication either that one cannot actually be an atheist, or that one cannot be fully human and be an atheist. Both positions are frankly insulting a vile.

BTW, even as an atheist, I appreciate the Bible verse.
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
As far as I can see, we are just using a different definition of the term 'emotion', not of the term 'love'.

In any case, love is a human (emotion, feeling, attitude, your choice) and not anything supernatural. And that is the basic point I was making.

So to identify a supernatural being (God) with a human (emotion, feeling, attitude, etc) seems to me to be greatly mistaken.

There is also an underlying implication either that one cannot actually be an atheist, or that one cannot be fully human and be an atheist. Both positions are frankly insulting a vile.

BTW, even as an atheist, I appreciate the Bible verse.
Right! -- I see many atheists as being especially nice people that are very easy to like. (no blanket rule, as such a large groups has very great variety, but so many are very wonderful people)

Fully human -- 100%. :)

About what an individual (again, no blanket rule) believes in their........more holistic total mind, things they don't consciously have awareness of (or past what they do have awareness of so far...), is so much more subtle and hard to guess, even face to face at length of time. Even with a close friend -- like my (non believer) very close friend of 20 years before he passed away from an accident. And individual. I don't assume much! I was very surprised when one evening he confided to me that he 'prayed' for people -- or sent prayer towards them from himself as it were -- in distant lands that were suffering hard conditions, like wars and such. People have depths. And then they have even more depths we don't even know.
 

sciatica

Notable Member
If His love is like it is in the bible, I'd hate to see what His hate looks like.


So does Yahweh.
16There are six things that the LORD hates,
seven that are detestable to Him:
17haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood
18a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that run swiftly to evil,
19a false witness who gives false testimony,
and one who stirs up discord among brothers.

(Also, Jesus thought rather highly of himself, devises the wicked scheme of putting people in hell, and falsely accuses Satan of lying, AND promised to sow discord among brothers.)


I personally think it's worse to be Harley Quinn to Yahweh's Joker.

Poison Ivy is a much better match anyway. :)
How would you rate your level of hatred towards Christians? On a scale of 1 to 10
 

sciatica

Notable Member
Interestingly the main reason some people come to this forum is to hate on Christians. Why ? Because they can. They can get away with it. Its encouraged. Its a sport for them. They can get rid of stress. Legalised abuse. I would be surprised if a day goes by without them having a hateful thought about them.
 

sciatica

Notable Member
Right! -- I see many atheists as being especially nice people that are very easy to like. (no blanket rule, as such a large groups has very great variety, but so many are very wonderful people)

Fully human -- 100%. :)

About what an individual (again, no blanket rule) believes in their........more holistic total mind, things they don't consciously have awareness of (or past what they do have awareness of so far...), is so much more subtle and hard to guess, even face to face at length of time. Even with a close friend -- like my (non believer) very close friend of 20 years before he passed away from an accident. And individual. I don't assume much! I was very surprised when one evening he confided to me that he 'prayed' for people -- or sent prayer towards them from himself as it were -- in distant lands that were suffering hard conditions, like wars and such. People have depths. And then they have even more depths we don't even know.
of course they are. but when we talk sbout religion or politics we get divided.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
How would you rate your level of hatred towards Christians? On a scale of 1 to 10


There is a huge difference between hating the false morality seen in the Christian myths and hating Christians.

Fortunately, the vast majority of Christians don't live by the morality of their sacred books. If they did, our world would be a much worse place. But, because most people, including most Christians, are basically good people just trying to get by, most also reject the negative aspects of the Christian myth in favor of the positive aspects.

I any case, I'm going to change your scale a bit. On a scale from -10 to 10 with -10 absolutely hating, and 10 absolutely enamored with, I would put my feelings towards most people, including most Christians as around 1 to 1.5.

On the other hand, there are people like Pat Robertson for whom I have a great deal of contempt, and would rate around a -7 or -8. On the flip side, there are Christians like Jimmy Carter that I would assign a 7 or a 8 on the positive side.

Now, instead, if you want to scale my feelings towards Christianity as it has been seen in the historical record, I would have to place it around a -5 or so. it has been too often the source of bigotry, a promoter of ignorance, and a suppressor of new ideas to be seen as an overall positive force.

That said, it was also central to the formation of the ideas that lead to the scientific revolution, which is an immense credit to it (although more relevant for the Middle Ages Christians than more recent ones).

As for the mythology itself, it seems about as ridiculous as most other monotheistic belief systems. As such, I tend to ignore it more than hate it. The morality contained in the myth is usually pretty atrocious, but that isn't uncommon for bronze age myths.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Interestingly the main reason some people come to this forum is to hate on Christians. Why ? Because they can. They can get away with it. Its encouraged. Its a sport for them. They can get rid of stress. Legalised abuse. I would be surprised if a day goes by without them having a hateful thought about them.


Interesting. I see a lot of critique of Christian ideas, but very little hatred towards Christians themselves. I think there is also a level of perplexity that in this modern world there are still people believing the myths in the Bible and putting it up as a standard for morality.

Can you give an example of this abuse you have witnessed?
 

sciatica

Notable Member
Interesting. I see a lot of critique of Christian ideas, but very little hatred towards Christians themselves. I think there is also a level of perplexity that in this modern world there are still people believing the myths in the Bible and putting it up as a standard for morality.

Can you give an example of this abuse you have witnessed?
and you are a moderator too. turn a blind eye eh
Threads like "Does God play with himself? allowed
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
and you are a moderator too. turn a blind eye eh
Threads like "Does God play with himself? allowed

If you feel that a post is against our rules, feel free to report it. Moderation decisions are made by consensus in part to eliminate the type of bias you are describing.

And, if you want to say more, you can always start a thread in Site Feedback https://www.religiousforums.com/forums/site-feedback.344/, which is a good site if you have more general comments.
 
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