Christians! Now which Mosaic Laws are still in force for you?

[Iymus]

And so......... do you keep the (non-sacrificial) Laws of Moses. Yes? No?

I cannot say yes. Neither would I say no.

 

[Deeje]

Because I subscribe to the old adage that “a man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still”... I won’t bother to stress the point any further, having defended Paul to someone who is determined to devalue his contribution to the spread of Christianity. That is your choice of course.

Suffice it to say, these few comments sum up why I won’t continue in Paul’s defence. I have given my reasons which suffice for me.

I don't think Jesus did choose him so I'm innocent of the above.

I can’t argue from that platform. Only Jesus knows if he chose Saul for a special assignment. Paul’s ministry forms a large part of the Christian scriptures, but since, as you say....

I don't believe that the bible is the inspired word of God, but it IS a brilliant historical document which pagan students like me can take interest in.

This, I believe is a conviction that God gives to those to whom he chooses to reveal his truth. (John 6:44, 65) Since you have no belief in the God I worship, there is not much point in continuing, since we have no common ground. To you Jesus and John the Baptist seem to be chosen at random and others rejected, although you have no real grounds to accept that these Bible characters ever existed, or if they did, had any real assignment from God....?

And Jesus never knew that name..... it's a mash of Greek and Roman!

I believe that, since God is the creator of language, that it poses no barrier for him. If I call God and his Christ by the names that are common in my language, I believe that he recognises them. If he doesn’t understand all languages then Christian prayers are floating off into the ether, unheard and unanswered. That is not my experience at all.

I did it! I actually got thru a Deeje post without cutting it too much! I shall eat my dinner with feelings of accomplishment, even if I won't get to any heaven.

LOL .....nothing like self deception eh?

If it makes you feel better, I have no hope of getting to heaven either and I am actually happy about that.

According to my belief, it was never God’s intention to send any human to heaven in the beginning. There was no need, and no natural cause of death. But due to the disobedience of our common ancestor unleashing a genetic defect on us that affects the whole human race, (causing faulty thinking and behavior and ending in ageing, sickness and certain death) we needed someone to bail us out of that predicament (since we had no way to fix it ourselves). He needed to replace a very faulty system of corrupt human governance, (man imagining that he could manage his own affairs without answering to any higher authority) and he needed to make sure that its replacement (God’s kingdom) was staffed with those whom God personally chose for the assignment. (Christ and his fellow kings and priests) All have lived in human flesh and so will be especially compassionate to the human condition whilst they guide us back into a reconciliation with our Creator.

This is the government that will take us back to what God purposed in the beginning....humans living forever on earth in the paradise conditions that we all long for, and know in our heart of hearts, should be our home.....with no ageing, or sickness, no suffering or pain....or even death. (Revelation 21:2-4) Can you deny that these elements are foreign in our psyche? Who would not wish them gone! ?

There is a big picture but most people have no idea about what it is, or why anyone was chosen to go to heaven in the first place. They are too busy believing that all good people go to heaven whilst arguing over the details of a lot of stuff that doesn’t really matter at the end of the day.

I don’t understand your position at all I’m afraid. Who invented deism? Is it just another “ism” for people to justify their beliefs (or lack of them)? Obviously the one who gave us natural spirituality and enough evidence in creation and in his written instructions, to know he is there, and that we are here for a reason.......has one agenda.....so isn’t it up to us, using our own free will to figure things out? The thing is, I believe that God is evaluating our reasoning as much as we are evaluating his......

Hope you enjoyed your dinner

 

[oldbadger]

Because I subscribe to the old adage that “a man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still”... I won’t bother to stress the point any further, having defended Paul to someone who is determined to devalue his contribution to the spread of Christianity. That is your choice of course.

Suffice it to say, these few comments sum up why I won’t continue in Paul’s defence. I have given my reasons which suffice for me.



I can’t argue from that platform. Only Jesus knows if he chose Saul for a special assignment. Paul’s ministry forms a large part of the Christian scriptures, but since, as you say....



This, I believe is a conviction that God gives to those to whom he chooses to reveal his truth. (John 6:44, 65) Since you have no belief in the God I worship, there is not much point in continuing, since we have no common ground. To you Jesus and John the Baptist seem to be chosen at random and others rejected, although you have no real grounds to accept that these Bible characters ever existed, or if they did, had any real assignment from God....?



I believe that, since God is the creator of language, that it poses no barrier for him. If I call God and his Christ by the names that are common in my language, I believe that he recognises them. If he doesn’t understand all languages then Christian prayers are floating off into the ether, unheard and unanswered. That is not my experience at all.



LOL .....nothing like self deception eh?

If it makes you feel better, I have no hope of getting to heaven either and I am actually happy about that.

According to my belief, it was never God’s intention to send any human to heaven in the beginning. There was no need, and no natural cause of death. But due to the disobedience of our common ancestor unleashing a genetic defect on us that affects the whole human race, (causing faulty thinking and behavior and ending in ageing, sickness and certain death) we needed someone to bail us out of that predicament (since we had no way to fix it ourselves). He needed to replace a very faulty system of corrupt human governance, (man imagining that he could manage his own affairs without answering to any higher authority) and he needed to make sure that its replacement (God’s kingdom) was staffed with those whom God personally chose for the assignment. (Christ and his fellow kings and priests) All have lived in human flesh and so will be especially compassionate to the human condition whilst they guide us back into a reconciliation with our Creator.

This is the government that will take us back to what God purposed in the beginning....humans living forever on earth in the paradise conditions that we all long for, and know in our heart of hearts, should be our home.....with no ageing, or sickness, no suffering or pain....or even death. (Revelation 21:2-4) Can you deny that these elements are foreign in our psyche? Who would not wish them gone! ?

There is a big picture but most people have no idea about what it is, or why anyone was chosen to go to heaven in the first place. They are too busy believing that all good people go to heaven whilst arguing over the details of a lot of stuff that doesn’t really matter at the end of the day.

I don’t understand your position at all I’m afraid. Who invented deism? Is it just another “ism” for people to justify their beliefs (or lack of them)? Obviously the one who gave us natural spirituality and enough evidence in creation and in his written instructions, to know he is there, and that we are here for a reason.......has one agenda.....so isn’t it up to us, using our own free will to figure things out? The thing is, I believe that God is evaluating our reasoning as much as we are evaluating his......

Hope you enjoyed your dinner

 

[oldbadger]

Because I subscribe to the old adage that “a man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still”... I won’t bother to stress the point any further, having defended Paul to someone who is determined to devalue his contribution to the spread of Christianity. That is your choice of course.

Suffice it to say, these few comments sum up why I won’t continue in Paul’s defence. I have given my reasons which suffice for me.



I can’t argue from that platform. Only Jesus knows if he chose Saul for a special assignment. Paul’s ministry forms a large part of the Christian scriptures, but since, as you say....



This, I believe is a conviction that God gives to those to whom he chooses to reveal his truth. (John 6:44, 65) Since you have no belief in the God I worship, there is not much point in continuing, since we have no common ground. To you Jesus and John the Baptist seem to be chosen at random and others rejected, although you have no real grounds to accept that these Bible characters ever existed, or if they did, had any real assignment from God....?



I believe that, since God is the creator of language, that it poses no barrier for him. If I call God and his Christ by the names that are common in my language, I believe that he recognises them. If he doesn’t understand all languages then Christian prayers are floating off into the ether, unheard and unanswered. That is not my experience at all.



LOL .....nothing like self deception eh?

If it makes you feel better, I have no hope of getting to heaven either and I am actually happy about that.

According to my belief, it was never God’s intention to send any human to heaven in the beginning. There was no need, and no natural cause of death. But due to the disobedience of our common ancestor unleashing a genetic defect on us that affects the whole human race, (causing faulty thinking and behavior and ending in ageing, sickness and certain death) we needed someone to bail us out of that predicament (since we had no way to fix it ourselves). He needed to replace a very faulty system of corrupt human governance, (man imagining that he could manage his own affairs without answering to any higher authority) and he needed to make sure that its replacement (God’s kingdom) was staffed with those whom God personally chose for the assignment. (Christ and his fellow kings and priests) All have lived in human flesh and so will be especially compassionate to the human condition whilst they guide us back into a reconciliation with our Creator.

This is the government that will take us back to what God purposed in the beginning....humans living forever on earth in the paradise conditions that we all long for, and know in our heart of hearts, should be our home.....with no ageing, or sickness, no suffering or pain....or even death. (Revelation 21:2-4) Can you deny that these elements are foreign in our psyche? Who would not wish them gone! ?

There is a big picture but most people have no idea about what it is, or why anyone was chosen to go to heaven in the first place. They are too busy believing that all good people go to heaven whilst arguing over the details of a lot of stuff that doesn’t really matter at the end of the day.

I don’t understand your position at all I’m afraid. Who invented deism? Is it just another “ism” for people to justify their beliefs (or lack of them)? Obviously the one who gave us natural spirituality and enough evidence in creation and in his written instructions, to know he is there, and that we are here for a reason.......has one agenda.....so isn’t it up to us, using our own free will to figure things out? The thing is, I believe that God is evaluating our reasoning as much as we are evaluating his......

Hope you enjoyed your dinner

I can't only answer one point on my mobile, so here goes.
I can assure absolutely that I can find very very strong basis for accepting that the Baptist, Yeshua and the disciples did exist. They all took part in a campaign against temple and Priesthood corruption and outrageous conditions for the peasant classes.
The is not a problem.
Paul lived as well, but I have no interest in his story because I am not a Christian, and he worked against the group's that formed from the sbove., Until he got some blinding ideas.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

NO Mosaic law applies to Christians.

Don't steal?
Don't Kill?
Don't have sex with your mother?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I cannot say yes. Neither would I say no.

What's that supposed to mean?

 

[Iymus]

What's that supposed to mean?

I neither affirm nor deny verbally. If I do well I expect to be accepted but if I don't

Gen 4:7 KJV If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

 

[shmogie]

Don't steal?
Don't Kill?
Don't have sex with your mother?

Christians are under the law of Christ, detailed in the NT.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Thanks for the post.
OK, so I won't need to take notice of any OT laws quoted by Christians, is that right?

Oh, but wait, Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 are still valid!

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I neither affirm nor deny verbally. If I do well I expect to be accepted but if I don't

Gen 4:7 KJV If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

IOW you refuse to answer the question. Why did you even bther to reply. sheesh.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Christians are under the law of Christ, detailed in the NT.

So Jews are under the Torah,
Christians are under the law of Christ
What are non-Christian Gentiles under? Nothing? So they can't sin?

 

[oldbadger]

IOW you refuse to answer the question. Why did you even bther to reply. sheesh.

The above sent to another...
A few Christians need to pop in and out of the OT Laws.
If they hold fast to a fixed set of principles and guidance they can't work that schizophrenic kind of mindset which allows them to work the Jekyll-Hyde lifestyle....

For instance, sex could be, might be, much more exciting if it's 'naughty'. In fact, only recently I mentioned this to my wife and offered a few examples from decades back when we went bird-watching and so forth, and I remember the time we lay on a blanket staring in to the night-sky and hoping to see a meteor streak..... that didn't last long. Of course my wife has no memory of any such events, or that's what she says........ but she blushes too much..... gorgeous.

 

[oldbadger]

Oh, but wait, Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 are still valid!

Shush....!!!!!


I'm waiting for the next time that a member chucks either of those down. ........ Got me battle-axe ready!

 

[shmogie]

So Jews are under the Torah,
Christians are under the law of Christ
What are non-Christian Gentiles under? Nothing? So they can't sin?

Of course they can sin. Sin is not just failing to keep rules. It is also motives and reasons for motives.

Paul talks about people who have no written law, yet they have a basic understanding of right and wrong, Gods natural law. C.S. Lewis writes about this in great detail, I recommend him to you.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Of course they can sin. Sin is not just failing to keep rules. It is also motives and reasons for motives.

Paul talks about people who have no written law, yet they have a basic understanding of right and wrong, Gods natural law. C.S. Lewis writes about this in great detail, I recommend him to you.

Sin is breaking God's law for you. If you do the right thing for the wrong reason, you haven't sinned. You maybe aren't the most virtuous guy around, but you haven't sinned.

So you believe that "natural law" binds all Gentiles. Well and good.

 

[Ancient Soul]

There are Two Commandments that Jesus taught we must follow, and I think we all know what they are, right?

What happened to the other Eight?

 

[Ancient Soul]

Christianity is basically a pick and choose whatever one wants to believe in from the bible. Usually dictated by whatever their particular priest/pastor tells them to blindly believe in.

 

[oldbadger]

So you believe that "natural law" binds all Gentiles. Well and good.

More like terrifying.
Evolution has made monsters and sweethearts out of life.
The virus or the bacteria are great examples.
They can help us or they can rip us up.

 

[shmogie]

Christianity is basically a pick and choose whatever one wants to believe in from the bible. Usually dictated by whatever their particular priest/pastor tells them to blindly believe in.

Nope

 

[metis]

What happened to the other Eight?

Actually there are 613 Commandments, but according to Jesus the Two Commandments (love of God & neighbor) cover the essence of all of them.