For Christians. Was the flood real or just a myth?

[metis]

This is why it is so important not to dismiss it as mere allegory....

It is not "dismissed" by taking it as allegory, plus allegory often involves portraying various forms of symbolism as if they're real events and real people, such as the Parable of the Good Samaritan. The importance is not the flood as supposed real history or even as allegory without interpretation, but are the morals and values taught within the narrative that can be applied today.

The past has passed, so what's useful today is learning the lessons from the past that may be applied today and tomorrow.

 

[Deeje]

It is not "dismissed" by taking it as allegory, plus allegory often involves portraying various forms of symbolism as if they're real events and real people, such as the Parable of the Good Samaritan. The importance is not the flood as supposed real history or even as allegory without interpretation, but are the morals and values taught within the narrative that can be applied today.

Why can't the flood be real metis....why does it have to be allegory? You don't think God can flood the world to undo what the demon angels did back then?
Jesus refers to the flood as a real event and so does Peter. They both relate it to the future. Who are we to question the son of God and the Apostle Peter?

The past has passed, so what's useful today is learning the lessons from the past that may be applied today and tomorrow.

Tell me where humans have ever learned anything from the past that they apply to the present and the future.....? why do we still have wars? If governments could learn to live in peace, then maybe the money they spend on war could be spent on affordable health care and homes and food for the homeless?...why are humans still committing murder and theft and rape....why have we impacted so negatively on this planet and yet we keep on doing what we know is destroying it?

Just as surely as God brought the flood in Noah's day to bring the events of that time to a halt....so he will bring an end to this rot once and for all....at a time when are not expecting it. (Matthew 24:37-39; 42-44)

 

[Sammaiel]

Talking about a literal flood, I simply think that the extremely thick atmosphere required for the incredible amounts of water necessary to flood mountains would had prevented life from existing at all. Sunlight would be unable to cross such a shield of water.

 

[metis]

Why can't the flood be real metis....why does it have to be allegory?

I didn't say that it can't be but that it makes no sense to take it literally based on objectively-derived evidence.

Tell me where humans have ever learned anything from the past that they apply to the present and the future.....?

We have learned from the past which is why we have religions and their scriptures including the Bible. There have been improvements over the years but also set-backs.

Just as surely as God brought the flood in Noah's day to bring the events of that time to a halt....so he will bring an end to this rot once and for all.

I don't consider Earth to be "rot", nor did Jesus. If he had, and had the Father agreed, then Earth could be obliterated or all or some that's in it.

 

[whirlingmerc]

I believe "all living" can still refer to just the Adamic race. Just as "the water covering all the earth" may just mean all the earth in Mesopotamia. I have all the books (that I own).

"the waters rose above all the high mountains under all the heavens" sounds
more expansive

 

[whirlingmerc]

In Islam the flood is taught. A flood has records back to ancient texts about Annunaki as well.
Science has shown there is a small region that did indeed have a huge flood but I couldn't speak to if it is the same one.
I myself take from the Quran and other sources with depth of meaning. So, to me it'd be neat if it indeed take place but ultimately the story is there for a much better understanding. If you read a book with a golf ball size consciousness you'll have a golf ball understanding.. but read with a basketball size understanding the meaning becomes larger.

On the subject of ball, the ark of Gilgamesh is shaped like a cube and by simple physics would roll all over the ocean like a volleyball. Now the ark of Noah much more dull and shaped like a boat.

 

[james dixon]

There is plenty of evidence that a great flood did indeed occur. Whether it was “the” biblical flood is debatable but there was a great flood.

 

[sooda]

Okay. Being corrected I followed you there. I had no problems. I stoped short at the sarcasm. Can you give me a connection between the flood and noah's arch?

What is Noah's Arch?

 

[Audie]

Tell me where humans have ever learned anything from the past that they apply to the present and the future.....? why do we still have wars? If governments could learn to live in peace, then maybe the money they spend on war could be spent on affordable health care and homes and food for the homeless?...why are humans still committing murder and theft and rape....why have we impacted so negatively on this planet and yet we keep on doing what we know is destroying it?

Just as surely as God brought the flood in Noah's day to bring the events of that time to a halt....so he will bring an end to this rot once and for all....at a time when are not expecting it. (Matthew 24:37-39; 42-44)

Lets see. People have learned that lions are
very scratchy and can be dangerous. Learned
that past practice in healing broken bones works.
That the stock market goes up and down.

Some have even learned that when there is
no evidence of some momentous event that
could reasonably be expected to have left
evidence-like say, there was a tank battle
said to have occurred in the town square
that morning, yet all is orderly-it must not
actually have happened.

Of course there is a countercurrent, there
are those who see the same thing over and
over and over and never learn.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

View attachment 25182 There is plenty of evidence that a great flood did indeed occur. Whether it was “the” biblical flood is debatable but there was a great flood.


View attachment 25180 View attachment 25181

Why show pictures of erosion and attribute them as evidence of any sort of flood?
The first shows the result of river erosion in a typical meander form. and the other two, a typical wind and weather erosion pattern.

If you want to see a typical flood pattern you need to look at the coast line of the English channel and its typical shallow sea, after it had broken through, to turn the UK into an island.

 

[Muffled]

There is no science to back up any of this. There is no evidence that indicates anybody used to live to be 900 years old. All the evidence points to much shorter average lifespans than we enjoy today.

I believe that reflects what I said about most people having short lives and the null hypothesis doesn't fit here. A lack of evidence simply means that it hasn't been found yet not that it doesn't exist.

 

[Audie]

View attachment 25182 There is plenty of evidence that a great flood did indeed occur. Whether it was “the” biblical flood is debatable but there was a great flood.


View attachment 25180 View attachment 25181

You didnt ever study geology, did you?

 

[Audie]

Why show pictures of erosion and attribute them as evidence of any sort of flood?
The first shows the result of river erosion in a typical meander form. and the other two, a typical wind and weather erosion pattern.

If you want to see a typical flood pattern you need to look at the coast line of the English channel and its typical shallow sea, after it had broken through, to turn the UK into an island.

"Broken through"?
"typical flood pattern"?
Whatever are you talking about?

 

[sooda]

"Broken through"?
"typical flood pattern"?
Whatever are you talking about?

The moment Britain became an island - BBC News
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-12244964
Ancient Britain was a peninsula until a tsunami flooded its land-links to Europe 8,000 years ago. ... and point to the site once being a sizable boat-building yard, says Garry Momber, of the ...

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

"Broken through"?
"typical flood pattern"?
Whatever are you talking about?

Did you not know that at one time the UK was joined to Europe by a populated land mass. It was broken through by glacial melt in a massive flood event.
Floods leave a typical trail of detritus in their path. Traces of the population that lived there are still being found offshore.

 

[Audie]

The moment Britain became an island - BBC News
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-12244964
Ancient Britain was a peninsula until a tsunami flooded its land-links to Europe 8,000 years ago. ... and point to the site once being a sizable boat-building yard, says Garry Momber, of the ...

Do you know of smething more technical, less chatty?

 

[Audie]

Did you not know that at one time the UK was joined to Europe by a populated land mass. It was broken through by glacial melt in a massive flood event.
Floods leave a typical trail of detritus in their path. Traces of the population that lived there are still being found offshore.

Of course I know that and do have a minor in geology.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Why can't the flood be real metis....

Because as told, it violates natural law.
And because all the evidence of reality doesn't support it.
And because the few testable claims it makes, fail when tested.

As told, it definatly, certaintly, demonstrably did not happen.
Unless you allow for magic to occur, off course. But if one gets to allow for magic, then literally any and all claims can be "supported" by invoking magic. So invoking magic is hardly a rational justification.

You don't think God can flood the world to undo what the demon angels did back then?

I'm sure a being that is all-powerfull can do anything it pleases, being all-powerfull and all.

I guess if "all powerfull" also means "able to do magic", then sure, I guess such a being would capable of triggering a physically impossible phenomenon and then use its magical powers to "reset" the world in such a way so that it looks as if no flood ever occured.

But that kind of logic also supports Last Thursdayism, which again isn't that rational.

Jesus refers to the flood as a real event and so does Peter.

So?

They both relate it to the future. Who are we to question the son of God and the Apostle Peter?

Thinking humans who are reading stories from the iron age?

Just as surely as God brought the flood in Noah's day to bring the events of that time to a halt....so he will bring an end to this rot once and for all....at a time when are not expecting it. (Matthew 24:37-39; 42-44)

So you believe religiously.

 

[Audie]

Because as told, it violates natural law.
And because all the evidence of reality doesn't support it.
And because the few testable claims it makes, fail when tested.

As told, it definatly, certaintly, demonstrably did not happen.
Unless you allow for magic to occur, off course. But if one gets to allow for magic, then literally any and all claims can be "supported" by invoking magic. So invoking magic is hardly a rational justification.



I'm sure a being that is all-powerfull can do anything it pleases, being all-powerfull and all.

I guess if "all powerfull" also means "able to do magic", then sure, I guess such a being would capable of triggering a physically impossible phenomenon and then use its magical powers to "reset" the world in such a way so that it looks as if no flood ever occured.

But that kind of logic also supports Last Thursdayism, which again isn't that rational.



So?



Thinking humans who are reading stories from the iron age?



So you believe religiously.

Not that you needed another detail, but "god"
had to have removed all the evidence for the flood,
for lo, none is to be found.

(I never did find a fundy, btw, who even tries to
explain why no "flood{ sediment is found in the
deep ocean basins.)

 

[sooda]

Do you know of smething more technical, less chatty?

Doggerland - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggerland
Until the middle Pleistocene, Britain was a peninsula of Europe, connected by the massive chalk Weald–Artois Anticline across the Straits of Dover.During the Anglian glaciation, approximately 450,000 years ago, an ice sheet filled much of the North Sea, with a large proglacial lake in the southern part fed by the Rhine, Scheldt and Thames river systems.