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whats your beef with brexit?

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
Brexit fuelling surge in support for Scottish independence, according to polling guru John Curtice

Professor Sir John Curtice said Remainers who had previously backed the Union were now flocking to the nationalist cause.

And he said that Boris Johnson's continued refusal to let the Scottish government have another independence referendum could end up backfiring.

Curtice said that support for the Union had remained largely unchanged in the wake of the EU referendum in 2016, but that was now changing.

"After the 2016 referendum some people who voted No and Remain did swich to Yes, but equally there were also people who voted Yes and Leave who switched to No," he said.

"In 2019, support is higher and where does the increase come? It comes wholly and entirely amongst those who voted Remain.

"So it was already very difficult to avoid the conclusion that the pursuit of Brexit was indeed at the margin undermining support for the Union. But given that we're starting 55/45, at the margin is potentially crucial.

"And then the story of the three polls that have come out either side of the weekend, now average support [for independence] is 51%. The YouGov poll and the Survation poll that came out yesterday again confirm that the increase in support is among Remain voters.

"So the message has to be towards Brexit-inclined Unionists is 'you might like it to be true that the UK should leave whole and entire but the world is not shaped how you would like it to be and that in practice, at the moment at least, the pursuit of Brexit is costing you support in Scotland'."



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Nearly 75% of Scots believe Brexit is wrong, new poll finds
 
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Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
Those numbers are incorrect.

Let us see the result of an Italexit Referendum first, where everyone votes.

This most recent poll from December 2019, in an Italian publication (note the ".it", not ".co.uk" or ".com"), suggests otherwise:


https://www.thelocal.it/20191206/most-italians-want-to-be-part-of-the-european-union-poll-finds


Most Italians want to remain part of the European Union, poll finds

The majority of Italians would like to keep their EU membership, but half are also yearning for a "strongman" leader, according to the latest national Censis poll.

Italians are not in favour of following in Britain's footsteps, with 62 percent saying leaving the European Union would not be a good idea, according to a report released on Friday by Italian research institute Censis.

The 2019 edition of the annual poll found 25 percent of Italians would be in favour of their country leaving the EU bloc.

Italy's membership of the EU is not currently a major topic of discussion within the country, and an "Italexit" referendum is not on the cards despite what is implied by reports in some UK newspapers.

In recent years the issue of Italy's European Union membership was regularly brought up by eurosceptic populist parties, including the Five Star Movement and the League.

However, polls have repeatedly found little appetite among Italians for a referendum on the issue, and the topic doesn't currently get much attention in Italian media or public life.

And all but the most ardently Eurosceptic Italian politicians now seem to have either changed their minds or gone quiet on the issue.

The M5S began backing the country's membership of the EU in 2017, changing tack after years of anti-European rhetoric, and then in 2018 decided they were also in favour of the single currency after all, despite previously blaming it for the country's economic woes.
 
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Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
Again...if polls were sufficient, there would be no need of elections.

In the absence of an election or plebiscite, it's the only indicator of public opinion that we have.

And these polls are consistent in showing over 60% support for remaining in the EU in Italy and no widespread desire for an Italexit referendum.

As such, they can't just be wilfully ignored.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
In the absence of an election or plebiscite, it's the only indicator of public opinion that we have.

And these polls are consistent in showing over 60% support for remaining in the EU in Italy and no widespread desire for an Italexit referendum.

As such, they can't just be wilfully ignored.

Our Constitution does not allow binding referendums on International Treaties, so Souverainists intend to change the Constitution first.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
And btw Salvini hangs on Marine Le Pen's every word, so if she decides this EU is reformable, he will try to change it, when he becomes PM.
 
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Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
And btw Salvini hangs on Marine Le Pen's every word, so if she decides this EU is reformeable, he will try to change it, when he becomes PM.

Last year:

https://www.trtworld.com/europe/le-pen-drops-frexit-in-favour-of-an-eu-of-the-far-right-25868

Le Pen drops ‘Frexit’ in favour of an ‘EU of the far-right’

National Rally leader Marine Le Pen no longer wants to leave the EU and is now working towards closer ties with the European far-right.

Marine Le Pen has asserted that neither she nor her party want France's withdrawal from the eurozone.

Speaking at a gathering of her supporters on Saturday ahead of the European elections, the National Rally (RN) leader said that her platform would now “look to change the EU from within”.

France's Le Pen hails EU 'way of life' job as victory on path to Elysee

The appointment “speaks volumes”, said Le Pen, who has often criticized the European Union while stopping short of any vow to usher France out, amid limited “Frexit” support among voters.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
It's okay @Altfish you have to let go.
While France and Germany divide Europe among themselves you better brush up on your Mandarin.


@Altfish
When an Austrian person herself admits the EU is just a Franco-German dictatorial superstate, what do we Italians have to do?
Swallow this injustice and pretend nothing happened?

No thanks. We have been vassals of other countries for too long
 
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I do not knpw much of anything about Brexit.
That being said, I have this pic that keeps showing up on my Facebook newsfeed and I am wondering how accurate it actually is:


Unsurprisingly, it's not very accurate as the Brexit/Remain issue is significantly a question of identity rather than dispassionate political analysis.

Unicorns don't exist, but mutually beneficial trade between countries with a great deal of common interest do exist and are fully within the political capabilities of both sides to agree on.

Presenting one side as the embodiment of fair minded reason and the other as ludicrously irrational in demands is simply reflective of a high degree of ideological bias.

Both sides engage in posturing and playing to the crowd and, at times, a preference for ideological values over practical benefit.
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
@Altfish
When an Austrian person herself admits the EU is just a Franco-German dictatorial superstate, what do we Italians have to do?
Swallow this injustice and pretend nothing happened?

No thanks. We have been vassals of other countries for too long
The UK is the vassal state at the moment, obeying laws from the EU which it has no influence over. We, when in the EU used to write these laws
 
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