The biogeographic evidence for evolution

[SkepticThinker]

I do wonder where the "four corners" fits in with that?

Me too, given that circles don't have corners. At least, none of the circles I've ever seen.
I bet that's just when the metaphorical part kicks in.

I find it odd that the authors of the OT knew about the 'four points' of the compass rose - they were not well known for their maritime activities, etc., and according to a quick Google (which means I have all the answers), parts of the OT that contain references to 'four corners' of the earth were written generally in the 500+ BC range, whereas the first compasses were not in use for hundreds of years later.

It is interesting.

 

[dad]

No, it isn't.
"Trailer trash" is not a race. It's rather a stereotype / meme.

It is usually associated with 'white trash' and hillbilies, and the USA far as I have experienced. Not sure why I see nothing wrong with living in trailers if we like.

Again, people that live in trailers aren't some seperate "race".
Where people live doesn't have any impact on what their race is.

Let's be honest.

It's illegal to joke about trailer trash?
Where? Trailer central?

That depends if it is an identifiable people or race.

Maybe try to exert the same caution in what you are going to accept as Truth, capital T, for what reason. It would serve you better.

Not sure those who find the Truth are being 'served' by it. But, hey, not like you'd know.

No it does not.

Me and God disagree.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

It is usually associated with 'white trash' and hillbilies, and the USA far as I have experienced.

None of which are races.

Not sure why I see nothing wrong with living in trailers if we like.

Neither do I.

Let's be honest.

Yes, let's...
The honest fact is that "race" is not determined by your whereabouts, living conditions, nationality, legal status, sexual orientation, IQ level, musical taste, level of education, profession, dialect,....

Need I go on?

Me and God disagree.

uhu, my point exactly

 

[Astrophile]

Ignoring your ad homs. The prevailing wisdom was the Earth was flat when Oxford was founded. Columbus was warned about avoiding any attempt to circumnavigate the globe. Do you even history?

And you didn't know the prevailing wisdom was the Earth is flat? It was certainly so when Oxford was founded! And just as scientists continually seek to refine the body of knowledge, as they do, they find more and more that science aligns with the Holy Bible.

First, can you provide more information about the prevailing wisdom being that the Earth was flat when Oxford was founded; I can't find anything about this in 'Flat Earth' by Christine Garwood, or by googling 'flat earth Oxford'. You don't say whether you mean the city of Oxford or the University, but it doesn't make much difference; Oxford was founded during the Saxon period (ca. 900 AD), and the University dates from the end of the 11th century,

Second, who warned Columbus against attempting to circumnavigate the globe, and did they actually say that the Earth was flat? I understood that Columbus under-estimated the size of the Earth and consequently the distance from western Europe to China; better informed people told him, correctly, that the distance was too great for ships of that time to complete the journey before running out of food and water, not that the Earth was flat and that Columbus's ships would fall over the edge.

 

[dad]

None of which are races.

Looking at google results it does seem that white is the color of the trash there.

trailer trash - Google Search

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Looking at google results it does seem that white is the color of the trash there.

trailer trash - Google Search

All thumbs are fingers but not all fingers are thumbs

 

[BilliardsBall]

Did you not read my post on this?
You are spreading fables and myths here (in regards to flat earth).



Where does the Bible say the earth is a sphere, by the way?

I read your post, it is debatable, since later, in Galileo's time, we had the same situation, churchmen leading academia, and promoting myths. Yes, Greek knowledge proliferated, and yes, there were controversial subjects, and no, you presented modern theory that in Columbus's day X was taught and known without that scholar showing any contemporaneous statements of same--or did I miss something?

Isaiah says the Earth is a sphere, and Job says the Earth is suspended in nothing (a vacuum), both extraordinary, prescient statements IMHO. The Hebrew for sphere is the same as "toy children play with" and children then and now played with round objects, not frisbee-like "circles".

 

[BilliardsBall]

First, can you provide more information about the prevailing wisdom being that the Earth was flat when Oxford was founded; I can't find anything about this in 'Flat Earth' by Christine Garwood, or by googling 'flat earth Oxford'. You don't say whether you mean the city of Oxford or the University, but it doesn't make much difference; Oxford was founded during the Saxon period (ca. 900 AD), and the University dates from the end of the 11th century,

Second, who warned Columbus against attempting to circumnavigate the globe, and did they actually say that the Earth was flat? I understood that Columbus under-estimated the size of the Earth and consequently the distance from western Europe to China; better informed people told him, correctly, that the distance was too great for ships of that time to complete the journey before running out of food and water, not that the Earth was flat and that Columbus's ships would fall over the edge.

See my response elsewhere on this thread on these matters, please. I'm open to further discussion.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I read your post, it is debatable, since later, in Galileo's time, we had the same situation, churchmen leading academia, and promoting myths. Yes, Greek knowledge proliferated, and yes, there were controversial subjects, and no, you presented modern theory that in Columbus's day X was taught and known without that scholar showing any contemporaneous statements of same--or did I miss something?

Do you have some evidence backing up YOUR claims on this?

The idea that Columbus thought the earth was flat was perpetuated by 18th century writers, not by an actual facts.
Several books published between 1200-1500, including one called "The Sphere" were required reading in universities. So educated people did not generally believe the earth to be flat.
Also, I ask again, do you seriously think that an experienced sailor would actually think the earth was flat?

Isaiah says the Earth is a sphere, and Job says the Earth is suspended in nothing (a vacuum), both extraordinary, prescient statements IMHO. The Hebrew for sphere is the same as "toy children play with" and children then and now played with round objects, not frisbee-like "circles".

Isaiah says the earth is a circle.
The earth is not suspended in any way.
Chronicles, Isaiah and Psalms say that the earth is fixed and/or immovable. Neither of which is accurate either.

Sorry, but that's not very impressive, nor is it "prescient" stuff.

 

[Milton Platt]

Who said God created individual species?
Did God make Caucasians, and then make dark skinned people, and then...? Have you read the Bible Hubert?

I think the Bible states that god made the individual animals and paraded them one by one before Adam so he could name them......

 

[dad]

All thumbs are fingers but not all fingers are thumbs

Generally, the term trailer trash is applied to an identifiable race. There is another similar term that is sometimes used interchangeably. 'white trash'.

 

[McBell]

Generally, the term trailer trash is applied to an identifiable race. There is another similar term that is sometimes used interchangeably. 'white trash'.

Except it was not about race, it was about locality.

 

[dad]

Except it was not about race, it was about locality.

I disagree. Same thing with the term white trash that is sometimes used interchangeably.

 

[tas8831]

Isaiah says the earth is a circle.

Circle... sphere... whatever... The spinning the literalist must engage in must hurt their brains...

 

[tas8831]

I think the Bible states that god made the individual animals and paraded them one by one before Adam so he could name them......

... and choose from among them for his "helpmeet"...

 

[BilliardsBall]

Do you have some evidence backing up YOUR claims on this?

The idea that Columbus thought the earth was flat was perpetuated by 18th century writers, not by an actual facts.
Several books published between 1200-1500, including one called "The Sphere" were required reading in universities. So educated people did not generally believe the earth to be flat.
Also, I ask again, do you seriously think that an experienced sailor would actually think the earth was flat?


Isaiah says the earth is a circle.
The earth is not suspended in any way.
Chronicles, Isaiah and Psalms say that the earth is fixed and/or immovable. Neither of which is accurate either.

Sorry, but that's not very impressive, nor is it "prescient" stuff.

There are experienced sailors who today claim the Earth is flat, and...?

I already wrote how the Hebrew circle is a sphere, the same Hebrew for a child's play toy, you know, a BALL.

I didn't say Psalms, I said Job, who said the Earth "hangs upon nothing", that is, the pagan said it was held by Atlas or suspended on the backs of giant elephants where Job said "a nothing", which is far more accurate, apart, of course, from gravity/space.

 

[gnostic]

Isaiah says the Earth is a sphere, and Job says the Earth is suspended in nothing (a vacuum), both extraordinary, prescient statements IMHO. The Hebrew for sphere is the same as "toy children play with" and children then and now played with round objects, not frisbee-like "circles".

BilliardsBall, which translation are you using that say Earth is a “sphere”?

Because in most translations that I have come across, say “circle”, not “sphere”.

King James Version

22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

New Revised Standard Version

22 It is he who sits above the circle of the earth,
and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers;
who stretches out the heavens like a curtain,
and spreads them like a tent to live in;

New American Standard Bible

22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain
And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

Here is a more recent English translation from Septuagint;

The New English Translation of the Septuagint

22 It is he who holds the circle of the earth, and those who dwells in it are like grasshoppers,
who has set up heavens like a vault
and stretched it out like a tent to live in.

There is a much older translation of the Septuagint that can be found, written by Sir Lancelot Brenton in 1851:

Sir Lancelot Brenton

22 It is he that comprehends the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants in it are as grasshoppers; he that set up the heaven as a chamber, and stretched it out as a tent to dwell in:

And here is a translation from the Dead Sea Scrolls, which say the earth is a “disk”, which is basically a cylinder in shape:

The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible (translated by Martin G. Abegg, Peter Flint & Eugene Urlich, 2002, Harper)

22 He is the one who dwells above the disk of the earth, whose inhabitants are like grasshoppers. He is the one who stretches the skies like a curtain and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in,

I think whenever the translations referred to circle, they are talking about cylinder or disk.

 

[gnostic]

I already wrote how the Hebrew circle is a sphere, the same Hebrew for a child's play toy, you know, a BALL.

I didn't say Psalms, I said Job, who said the Earth "hangs upon nothing", that is, the pagan said it was held by Atlas or suspended on the backs of giant elephants where Job said "a nothing", which is far more accurate, apart, of course, from gravity/space.

Well, Job 38:13 say that if you take the Earth by its “edges” or “ends”, and shake it, people would fall off the earth:

13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

13 that it might take the earth by the edges
and shake the wicked out of it?

13 so that it might take hold of the skirts of the earth,
and the wicked be shaken out of it?

There are no “ends” or “edges” to a sphere or the Earth, which is another reference to a flat earth in the shape of disk or cylinder; disk or cylinder do have edge or end.

 

[leroy]

Few creationists are familiar with the biogeographic evidence for evolution, yet it is one of the strongest pieces of evidence for evolution.

Why do species on islands resemble species on the nearest mainland, even if there is a vast difference in environmental conditions between the island and the mainland? If a creator was independently creating species, why would he create species on islands that are similar to those on the nearest continent or mainland? The species found on islands such as the Galapagos, while distinct from the species of the nearest mainland, resemble them more closely than they resemble the species of other islands with more similar environmental conditions, indicating that the species on the islands descended and evolved from the species on the nearest mainland.

This is what Darwin had to say on the subject:

"The naturalist, looking at the inhabitants of these volcanic islands in the Pacific, distant several hundred miles from the continent,feels that he is standing on American land. Why should this be so? Why should the species which are supposed to have been created in the Galapagos Archipelago, and nowhere else, bear so plainly the stamp of affinity to those created in America?There is nothing in the conditions of life, in the geological nature of the islands, in their height or climate, or in the proportions in which the several classes are associated together, which closely resemble the conditions of the South American coast: in fact, there is a considerable dissimilarity in all these respects.... Facts such as these admit of no sort of explanation on the ordinary view of independent creation; whereas on the view here maintained, it is obvious that the Galapagos Islands would be likely to receive colonists from America, whether by occasional means of transport or (though I do not believe in this doctrine) by formerly continuous land ...such colonists would be liable to modification,—the principle of inheritance still betraying their original birthplace."

Creationists cannot explain away this evidence. They just pretend it doesn't exist.

No Creationists do not pretend that it doesn't exist, they would say that" Island animals" are immigrants that came from the continental land.

 

[tas8831]

Well, Job 38:13 say that if you take the Earth by its “edges” or “ends”, and shake it, people would fall off the earth:







There are no “ends” or “edges” to a sphere or the Earth, which is another reference to a flat earth in the shape of disk or cylinder; disk or cylinder do have edge or end.

Your logic and evidence plays no part in the JW/evangelical's worldview.