Proof Jesus said he is not God in atleast 3 Gospel accounts

[Redemptionsong]

1. Thank you. You finally said it out your own mouth "I can understand them from the trinitarian position. "

The Trinitarian position is not the foundation of the bible.

1Co 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

2. Is like someone who believes it is lawful to eat human flesh understanding all the verses from a cannibalism position.

Joh 6:54, Joh 6:55, & Col 2:16

This seems like or similar to confirmation bias; Overvaluing what confirms your beliefs instead of the intention of what is written.

3. Mat 13:14

Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

Love of God, is of the Father
Commandments of God, is of The Father
Will of God, is of The Father
Authority of God, is of The Father
Works of God, is of The Father
All things are of God our Father the only true God.

You appear to be suggesting that my trinitarian beliefs were preconceived. They were not. I came to the Bible to understand God's Word, and reached trinitarian beliefs only after many years of careful study.

As I mentioned in a previous post, there was a time, long ago, when I attended a Unitarian fellowship, but became uneasy with their teaching.

As regards the comments above, I agree that the Father loves and commands, I agree that it is the Father's will that must be followed. This is not the issue. The issue is whether the WORD that comes from the Father is GOD. John 1:1 answers this question. The Word that comes forth from God is SPIRIT, still God. The WORD WAS GOD [John 1:1] and JESUS CHRIST IS THE WORD [Revelation 19:13]

What, therefore, is the reasonable conclusion?

 

[Iymus]

You appear to be suggesting that my trinitarian beliefs were preconceived. They were not. I came to the Bible to understand God's Word, and reached trinitarian beliefs only after many years of careful study.

As I mentioned in a previous post, there was a time, long ago, when I attended a Unitarian fellowship, but became uneasy with their teaching.

As regards the comments above, I agree that the Father loves and commands, I agree that it is the Father's will that must be followed. This is not the issue. The issue is whether the WORD that comes from the Father is GOD. John 1:1 answers this question. The Word that comes forth from God is SPIRIT, still God. The WORD WAS GOD [John 1:1] and JESUS CHRIST IS THE WORD [Revelation 19:13]

What, therefore, is the reasonable conclusion?

1. The conclusion is that John 1:1 is invalidated of proving Jesus is God because the Author "a man" stated along with bare record / testified

Joh 1:18 KJV No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Joh 1:34 KJV And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

2. The word is not God but Son of the living God and representation of him. "Joh 1:34 KJV "

Mar 1:1 KJV The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

2Co 4:3 KJV But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

2Co 4:4 KJV In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

1Jn 5:5 KJV Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Rev 3:12 KJV Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

3. Faithful and True Witness of God is Beginning of his Creation with a new name that no man knew but himself.

Rev 3:14 KJV And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Rev 19:11 KJV And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 KJV His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

4. If Jesus was God he would come in his own name.

Joh 5:43 KJV I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
Joh 5:44 KJV How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

5. If jesus was God he would do his own will and finish his own work.

Joh 4:34 KJV Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Joh 7:17 KJV If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

6. If Trinitarian doctrine is not preconceived why are universal meanings of pronouns, certain adjectives and percentages, along with greater than and less than signs " >, < " ignored.

7. I overlooked one thing which you reminded me of; your foundation is that Jesus must the only true God. That is your hammer and all verses to you are nails.

8. However the love and will of God is the foundation of the bible with both being of The Father because he himself is greater than all and the only true God.

Ecc 12:12 KJV And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.
Ecc 12:13 KJV Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

1Jn 5:3 KJV For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Joh 7:16 KJV Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
Joh 7:17 KJV If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

 

[74x12]

God = Good
Jesus = Not Good
Jesus = Not God

Sorry, since you don't believe Jesus is good; then I question that you know Him. Perhaps if you could show us one time Jesus was not good.

 

[Iymus]

Sorry, since you don't believe Jesus is good; then I question that you know Him. Perhaps if you could show us one time Jesus was not good.

1. As someone who believes in Jas 1:17, Is it wise for me to find ways to contradict Christ words in Mat 19:17 , Mar 10:18, and Luk 18:19 or not take them at face value?

Jas 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

2. It seems that the reason you think he is good implies unrighteousness in him according to "Joh 7:18"

Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
Joh 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

3. Did the god of this world, hid the gospel of the Son of God who is the Image / Representation of God that declared him; His Faithful and True Witness and beginning of Creation?

Mar 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
Joh 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

4. Any question I asked above is just to stimulate thinking.

 

[74x12]

1. As someone who believes in Jas 1:17, Is it wise for me to find ways to contradict Christ words in Mat 19:17 , Mar 10:18, and Luk 18:19 or not take them at face value?

I think what you're missing is that Jesus is asking a question. Not stating that He is not good. Only asking "Why do you call me good?"

In John 10:11-18 Jesus makes the claim that He is the "Good Shepherd" also. Even though it's obviously a different Greek word than in Mat. 19:17; yet it holds true He is good.

Jesus asked to gauge the person's faith. Because they said He was good. Jesus wants to know what they really know. Because no man can come to Him unless the Father draws them and the Father was drawing people to Him and The Father was showing them who He was. But not all at once. Some knew He was a prophet, and other that He was the Messiah and a few that He was the Son of God. And they were all correct! He was all those things. But only at last did He reveal He was also the Father manifest. (John 14:9)

Jas 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

The Father of Lights is Jesus as we can prove.

John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

In the Greek this is to mean "call none of yours father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."

So Jesus clearly doesn't apply. He is not of this world. He's from heaven.

John 8:23
And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

And, Jesus clearly differentiates between Himself and the people of this world. Even His brothers!

John 7:6 Then Jesus said unto them, My time is not yet come: but your time is alway ready.

Isaiah 9:6 calls Jesus the "everlasting Father".

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

So, Mat. 23:9 won't contradict Isaiah 9:6.

Finally, Jesus claimed to have proceeded forth from the Father. This means He literally came out from God.


John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

That is in the same way that God sends out His holy Spirit.

Psalm 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.

And how the Word of God proceeds out of the mouth of God.

Isaiah 55:11
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

2. It seems that the reason you think he is good implies unrighteousness in him according to "Joh 7:18"

Yes, in order for Him to be the Lamb without spot or blemish. He has to be truly good. (1 Peter 1:19)

For Jesus to be good He has to be born of God and so that's why He is Fathered by the holy Spirit. (Luke 1:35) Because the sins of the fathers are passed on to the third and fourth generation. (Exodus 20:5) But, since Jesus is Fathered by God this is nullified.

This is why He is the Son of God.

Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Matthew 1:18
Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

It was not the Spirit of Jesus that was created at birth. His body was.

Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

But it pleased all the fullness of God to dwell in Him bodily.

Colossians 1:19 because in him it did please all the fulness to tabernacle,

So all the fullness of the Divine nature indwells Jesus Christ bodily. He was God clothed in human flesh.

Colossians 2:8-9 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
Joh 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

Correct. Jesus always glorified the Father and spoke only the teachings of God. This doesn't mean He is not God. Because everything Jesus did in the flesh was as the "Son of man". That is a human being. So He always glorified His Father who is God a Spirit and literally formed His physical body in the womb.

John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Isaiah 49:1-3
49 Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The Lord hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name. 2 And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me; 3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

3. Did the god of this world, hid the gospel of the Son of God who is the Image / Representation of God that declared him; His Faithful and True Witness and beginning of Creation?

Mar 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
Joh 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

4. Any question I asked above is just to stimulate thinking.

Jesus as the beginning of the creation of God means the birth and even the crucifixion/resurrection of the Son was set forth first before anything else. This is why Peter says:

1 Peter 1:19-20 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

So, the "foundation of the world" is the 7 days of creation and Jesus was set forth before them all. His coming and His manifestation into the world was Genesis 1:3. Here we see that the first thing God ever says is "Let there be Light" and this Light is Jesus Christ manifest into the darkness of the world. And indeed, God made all things in the Light of 6 days. Because a day is just a period of the Light. And not just any light but the Light of Genesis 1:3.

I could tell you a lot more about the Light if you're interested to hear it.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

 

[Iymus]

I think what you're missing is that Jesus is asking a question. Not stating that He is not good. Only asking "Why do you call me good?"

In John 10:11-18 Jesus makes the claim that He is the "Good Shepherd" also. Even though it's obviously a different Greek word than in Mat. 19:17; yet it holds true He is good.

Jesus asked to gauge the person's faith. Because they said He was good. Jesus wants to know what they really know. Because no man can come to Him unless the Father draws them and the Father was drawing people to Him and The Father was showing them who He was. But not all at once. Some knew He was a prophet, and other that He was the Messiah and a few that He was the Son of God. And they were all correct! He was all those things. But only at last did He reveal He was also the Father manifest. (John 14:9)

The Father of Lights is Jesus as we can prove.

John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

In the Greek this is to mean "call none of yours father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."

So Jesus clearly doesn't apply. He is not of this world. He's from heaven.

John 8:23
And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

And, Jesus clearly differentiates between Himself and the people of this world. Even His brothers!

John 7:6 Then Jesus said unto them, My time is not yet come: but your time is alway ready.

Isaiah 9:6 calls Jesus the "everlasting Father".

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

So, Mat. 23:9 won't contradict Isaiah 9:6.

I could tell you a lot more about the Light if you're interested to hear it.

1. Only got one question; So the Son of Man is the Father of lights which is in heaven?

 

[74x12]

1. Only got one question; So the Son of Man is the Father of lights which is in heaven?

Indeed.

 

[Iymus]

Indeed.

No further questions.

 

[LightofTruth]

No further questions.

Jesus was under death's dominion being a son of Adam. After Jesus was raised from the dead, Paul says "death no more has dominion over him".
God was NEVER under deaths dominion. Nor can He, nor ever will be. Again Paul says that "only God has immortality"
Jesus was GIVEN immortality by resurrection from the dead. "As the Father has life in Himself, so has He GIVEN the son to have life in himself also".
The life that Jesus offers is the life that was GIVEN to him from his God and Father.
The sense in which Jesus was NOT good in comparison to his God is in that he was in the mortal flesh of man.

 

[LightofTruth]

1. Only got one question; So the Son of Man is the Father of lights which is in heaven?

The Scripture declares that Jesus has a God and a Father. Many don't want to accept that truth, and you will never convince them of it.

 

[Iymus]

Jesus was under death's dominion being a son of Adam. After Jesus was raised from the dead, Paul says "death no more has dominion over him".
God was NEVER under deaths dominion. Nor can He, nor ever will be. Again Paul says that "only God has immortality"
Jesus was GIVEN immortality by resurrection from the dead. "As the Father has life in Himself, so has He GIVEN the son to have life in himself also".
The life that Jesus offers is the life that was GIVEN to him from his God and Father.
The sense in which Jesus was NOT good in comparison to his God is in that he was in the mortal flesh of man.

I don't disagree. I would also combine that insight with points below for the reasoning of his own words " Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. "

1. Son can do nothing of himself without God our Father;

Joh 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

2. Only Name/Authority of God our Father can bring salvation;

Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

3. Every good gift originates from God our Father;

Jas 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

4. Honouring God our Father is of more value;

Joh 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

5. Entering Life consists of commandments which are duty of man;

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

6. Commandments are of God our Father with first one encompassing Deu 6:4;

Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

7. No unrighteousness in those who seek the glory of the one's whose name/authority they come in "Joh 5:43";

Joh 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

8. Taking his own words at face value along with scripture that speak of him.

Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

9. Only will of God our Father get's us into heaven.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

10. Will and Work by Christ is of God our Father.

Joh 4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Joh 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

 

[Iymus]

The Scripture declares that Jesus has a God and a Father. Many don't want to accept that truth, and you will never convince them of it.

1. Got further confirmation when I asked, "So the Son of Man is the Father of lights which is in heaven?".

Maybe I should have been even more specific and asked; So the Son of Man which was on Earth is the Father of lights which is in heaven?

It would not have mattered though. The Duty of Men for Trinitarians is that Jesus must be God and interpret as such.

2. Even those who knew the law and commandments "the chief priests and officers" said he made himself the Son of God in the end.

Joh 19:6 When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him.
Joh 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

3. But now certain men boasting against chief priest and officers and saying he made himself God the only Lord God

Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[74x12]

Jesus was under death's dominion being a son of Adam. After Jesus was raised from the dead, Paul says "death no more has dominion over him".
God was NEVER under deaths dominion. Nor can He, nor ever will be. Again Paul says that "only God has immortality"
Jesus was GIVEN immortality by resurrection from the dead. "As the Father has life in Himself, so has He GIVEN the son to have life in himself also".
The life that Jesus offers is the life that was GIVEN to him from his God and Father.
The sense in which Jesus was NOT good in comparison to his God is in that he was in the mortal flesh of man.

That's why He says in Hebrews 10:5 "but a body hast thou prepared me:" Of course God can't die. This is why He needed a human body to be the sacrifice. He humbled Himself to the cross for you. And you turn it around "oh he died so he's not God".

Psalm 40 (Septuagint)
6 Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not; but a body hast thou prepared me: whole-burnt-offering and sacrifice for sin thou didst not require. 7 Then I said, Behold, I come: in the volume of the book it is written concerning me, 8 I desired to do thy will, O my God, and thy law in the midst of mine heart.

Jesus' bodily is the ultimate sacrifice.

But this verse disproves you:

1 John 3:16 in this we have known the love, because he for us his life did lay down, and we ought for the brethren the lives to lay down;

And indeed, by His own words Jesus cannot die unless He lays down His life freely.

John 10:18
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

 

[74x12]

1. Got further confirmation when I asked, "So the Son of Man is the Father of lights which is in heaven?".

Maybe I should have been even more specific and asked; So the Son of Man which was on Earth is the Father of lights which is in heaven?

It would not have mattered though. The Duty of Men for Trinitarians is that Jesus must be God and interpret as such.

2. Even those who knew the law and commandments "the chief priests and officers" said he made himself the Son of God in the end.

Joh 19:6 When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him.
Joh 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

3. But now certain men boasting against chief priest and officers and saying he made himself God the only Lord God

Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

I'm not trinitarian. God is not three persons. God is one indivisible person manifest in the Son Jesus Christ.

Yes He was on earth and in heaven. As God is everywhere present and not limited to one space at a time. Which many scriptures prove.

 

[74x12]

The Scripture declares that Jesus has a God and a Father. Many don't want to accept that truth, and you will never convince them of it.

Consider it accepted then.

Of course He had a Father and a God. He was human being!

Look why He is called the Son of God:

Luke 1:35
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

So because He is literally fathered by the holy Ghost; I quote "therefore" He'll be called the Son of God. So the holy Spirit literally fathered Him in the womb and so He's literally the Son of God by birth.

 

[Iymus]

I'm not trinitarian. God is not three persons. God is one indivisible person manifest in the Son Jesus Christ.

Yes He was on earth and in heaven. As God is everywhere present and not limited to one space at a time. Which many scriptures prove.

0. Your words seem Smooth and Suave. Apologies for identifying you as Trinitarian.

1. Do you believe Jesus is Lord God and our only true God literally?

2. Do you believe Jesus is greater than all; Not all Creation but specifically greater than all and above all.

3. Do you believe the commandments of God are of Jesus specifically?

4. Do you believe the will and works of God are of Jesus specifically?

 

[Redemptionsong]

I'm not trinitarian. God is not three persons. God is one indivisible person manifest in the Son Jesus Christ.

Yes He was on earth and in heaven. As God is everywhere present and not limited to one space at a time. Which many scriptures prove.

Interesting to read that you deny that you are trinitarian. Surely the word denotes 'a unity of three', not three discrete persons. As I understand it, the root of all trinitarian doctrine is the belief that God is able to dwell amongst men on earth [through the Son], and ultimately to dwell within men [as Holy Spirit].

 

[Redemptionsong]

1. The conclusion is that John 1:1 is invalidated of proving Jesus is God because the Author "a man" stated along with bare record / testified

Joh 1:18 KJV No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Joh 1:34 KJV And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

How does John 1:18 invalidate John 1:1? Are you suggesting that John was not inspired by God to write these words?

The problem is not with John, or his record, but with lymus and his interpretation!

John 1:18 states that the Son is in the bosom of the Father. How much closer can you be to God? If instead of using the word SON, you use THE WORD, it is easier to understand how a word exists in the will before being expressed. As soon as a word is expressed, it is begotten or created, but it doesn't stop being the word of its author. The words you express are your words; they belong to you.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God. John saw the Holy Spirit descend upon him, and declared that is was Jesus Christ that would baptize with Holy Spirit. How can a man baptize with the Spirit of God?

 

[Iymus]

How does John 1:18 invalidate John 1:1? Are you suggesting that John was not inspired by God to write these words?

The problem is not with John, or his record, but with lymus and his interpretation!

John 1:18 states that the Son is in the bosom of the Father. How much closer can you be to God? If instead of using the word SON, you use THE WORD, it is easier to understand how a word exists in the will before being expressed. As soon as a word is expressed, it is begotten or created, but it doesn't stop being the word of its author. The words you express are your words; they belong to you.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God. John saw the Holy Spirit descend upon him, and declared that is was Jesus Christ that would baptize with Holy Spirit. How can a man baptize with the Spirit of God?

Explanation No man hath seen God at any time and that God is not a Man neither son of Man.

1.
1Sa 15:23 KJV For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

Joh 1:18 KJV No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Joh 6:45 KJV It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Joh 6:46 KJV Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

2.
Joh 8:40 KJV But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. "words of Christ"

Num 23:19 KJV God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Act 17:30 KJV And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Act 17:31 KJV Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

3.
Mar 13:32 KJV But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. "words of Christ"

1Jn 4:10 KJV Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

1Jn 4:12 KJV No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

4.
Joh 5:42 KJV But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
Joh 5:43 KJV I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Joh 8:42 KJV Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

1Ti 1:17 KJV Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

5.
Mat 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

6. Recap
God is God;
God is not a man
Son of God became a Man
Therefore God is not Son of God
.

 

[74x12]

0. Your words seem Smooth and Suave.

Well I'm not. I'm just passionate about the subject.

Apologies for identifying you as Trinitarian.

Whereas trinitarians believe God is three persons in one God. We believe God is one but reveals Himself in different ways. So Father, Son and holy Spirit are manifestations of the same God.

1. Do you believe Jesus is Lord God and our only true God literally?

Yes.

2. Do you believe Jesus is greater than all; Not all Creation but specifically greater than all and above all.

Yes.

3. Do you believe the commandments of God are of Jesus specifically?

Yes.

4. Do you believe the will and works of God are of Jesus specifically?

Yes.