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The irony in the Baha'i faith

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Only in your Baha’i world. Not in any future world that I imagine.
No Jim........ indeed not.......
My perception of a Bahai World is that written about by Bahauallah, described with its Criminal and Civil Legislation, its government......... and its method of selecting rulers.

Because neither you nor I have a vote in Bahai matters, not being Bahais, neither of us would have any say whatsover in such a World, so it certainly is not my idea of a beneficial World, and I doubt that it's yours, either.

Obviously, if you become a Bahai then you would get to vote in elections, but I never would, Jim.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
No Jim........ indeed not.......
My perception of a Bahai World is that written about by Bahauallah, described with its Criminal and Civil Legislation, its government......... and its method of selecting rulers.

Because neither you nor I have a vote in Bahai matters, not being Bahais, neither of us would have any say whatsover in such a World, so it certainly is not my idea of a beneficial World, and I doubt that it's yours, either.

Obviously, if you become a Bahai then you would get to vote in elections, but I never would, Jim.
I think that we’ve already agreed that the Baha’i Faith that you’ve been criticizing is not any worldwide community that has ever existed or ever possibly could exist.

For information, I’m a member of the Baha’i Faith community that is following the Universal House of Justice that is seated on Mount Carmel in Haifa, Israel.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
I’m seeing part of the problem now as Baha’is exempting themselves from things they say about the followers of other religions, while pretending to think that we are all equal. Saying that most of the people of the world don’t understand their own scriptures .., except for themselves and some other Baha’is. Saying that what looks obvious to people in their scriptures isn’t always true ... except for what looks obvious to themselves and some other Baha’is. Saying that they themselves and some other Baha’is are the only people in the world who can’t be wrong in what they think are the fundamental beliefs of their religion. Rejecting the most conservative and sectarian views of all religions ... except their own.

Yes Jim, the above seems to be right to me.

But Bahais don't seem to deliberately bathe in pretense and impost, it's seems more as if that they are so imprinted with Bahai that they do all the above unwittingly, innocently.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
I think that we’ve already agreed that the Baha’i Faith that you’ve been criticizing is not any worldwide community that has ever existed or ever possibly could exist.
I'm relieved to read that good news, Jim.


For information, I’m a member of the Baha’i Faith community that is following the Universal House of Justice that is seated on Mount Carmel in Haifa, Israel.

Forgive me, Jim.
Reading your posts of Bahai problems, difficulties, your criticisms of Bahai and your difficulties the written tenets of that Faith, I really did not believe that you are a Bahai.

In fact it seems a bit ironic that a person with so many alternative views about Bahai actually is one.

My head spins at this concept.
 
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Jim

Nets of Wonder
Yes Jim, the above seems to be right to me.

But Bahais don't seem to deliberately bathe in pretense and impost, it's seems more as if that they are so imprinted with Bahai that they do all the above unwittingly, innocently.
Agreed.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
Reading your posts of Bahai problems, difficulties, your criticisms of Bahai and your difficulties the written tenets of that Faith, I really did not believe that you are a Bahai.

In fact it seems a bit ironic that a person with so many alternative views about Bahai actually is one.

My head spins at this concept.
You might not be the only one who feels that way. :smiley:
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
I'm relieved to read that good news, Jim.




Forgive me, Jim.
Reading your posts of Bahai problems, difficulties, your criticisms of Bahai and your difficulties the written tenets of that Faith, I really did not believe that you are a Bahai.

In fact it seems a bit ironic that a person with so many alternative views about Bahai actually is one.

My head spins at this concept.
That brings up an interesting point. Some people here, some Baha’is and some of their critics, agree with each other that I’m misreading Baha’i writings, including messages from Shoghi Effendi and the House of Justice. People might think that I’m only seeing what I want to see, which could of course be true. However that may be, in case anyone is wondering, everything that I’m saying is what I honestly think.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
@Jim
So.... you are a Bahai.
Do you accept everything that Bahauallah wrote, every word?
I don’t ever question or doubt that what He says is true. I disagree with some popular thinking about what it means. Maybe I’m only seeing what I want to see. :smiley:
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
That brings up an interesting point. Some people here, some Baha’is and some of their critics, agree with each other that I’m misreading Baha’i writings, including messages from Shoghi Effendi and the House of Justice.
I don't follow other people, or Bahais, Jim, and I pay little attention to Shoghi or the UHJ. All I take real notice of is what the Bab and Bahauallah are reported to have written down during their lifetimes.
For me that is the kernel of the Bahai faith.

People might think that I’m only seeing what I want to see, which could of course be true. However that may be, in case anyone is wondering, everything that I’m saying is what I honestly think.
I accept that, Jim.
And what I write about Bahai is what I think.
Some Bahais here just do not understand the importance of Good and Bad enemies, or of Good and Bad friends.

Some Bahais think that their worst enemies are like me, some think that I'm a kind of demonic pharisee who hides behind his pseudonym, spurting out filth against the one true religion for this age. They will not, can not, ever accept a word that I write about it. Even when a point is established (by me) which most readers would accept, some Bahais will just go away, not reply, not acknowledge, and weeks, months or years later I will see that they are still making the same claims as already put to rest previously.

And so, for me, to find that there are Bahais like you who do see problems, difficulties and alternatives for and about Bahai in many areas of the religion, that is a breath of fresh air.

Bahai may see this differently, Jim. Bahai could very well feel that folks who declare themselves to be Bahais but who tear at the basic fabric of their faith, they might think that such folks are wolves in sheep's clothing, imposts bent upon the downfall of Bahai. :shrug:
 
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oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
I don’t ever question or doubt that what He says is true. I disagree with some popular thinking about what it means. Maybe I’m only seeing what I want to see. :smiley:
Fair enough!

That is how I see it, in some ways.

No matter what the Bab and Bahauallah wrote, folks want to mess with the writings later.

Look at this one tiny example, one of hundreds:-
"Shave not your heads; God hath adorned them with hair, and in this there are signs from the Lord of creation to those who reflect upon the requirements of nature. He, verily, is the God of strength and wisdom. Notwithstanding, it is not seemly to let the hair pass beyond the limit of the ears. Thus hath it been decreed by Him Who is the Lord of all worlds." (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i Aqdas)
So Bahauallah did not like shaven heads, but he thought that folks should not grow their hair longer than below their ears. He wrote that in the Aqdas.

And so, years later, decades later, Bahais are told extra struff about that, thus:-

"Shoghi Effendi has made clear that, unlike the prohibition on shaving the head, this law forbidding the growing of the hair beyond the lobe of the ear pertains only to men." (The Kitab-i Aqdas, notes)

So now women will have a different rule to men, and gender separation continues like that, through lifestyles, allotted objectives, UHJ seats, certain jobs........ while Bahai keeps on telling me that it is gender neutral.


My head spins, Jim.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
I’m seeing part of the problem now as Baha’is exempting themselves from things they say about the followers of other religions, while pretending to think that we are all equal. Saying that most of the people of the world don’t understand their own scriptures .., except for themselves and some other Baha’is. Saying that what looks obvious to people in their scriptures isn’t always true ... except for what looks obvious to themselves and some other Baha’is. Saying that they themselves and some other Baha’is are the only people in the world who can’t be wrong in what they think are the fundamental beliefs of their religion. Rejecting the most conservative and sectarian views of all religions ... except their own.
That's pretty much it, and the gist of the entire discussion on this forum with Baha'is.
Yes Jim, the above seems to be right to me.
Did you see that one Baha’i called what I said in that post “the core of the message of Bahá’u’lláh”?
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
I’m still working on clarifying for myself what is uniquely frustrating about some discussions with people promoting what they call “Baha’i beliefs” in Internet discussions. Saying that most of the people of the world don’t understand their own scriptures .., except for themselves and some other Baha’is. Saying that what looks obvious to people in their scriptures isn’t always true ... except for what looks obvious to themselves and some other Baha’is. Saying that they themselves and some other Baha’is are the only people in the world who can’t be wrong in what they think are the fundamental beliefs of their religion. Rejecting the most conservative and sectarian views of all religions ... except their own. Saying that all the world’s people need to question their most cherished beliefs ... except for themselves and some other Baha’is. All the while telling themselves that they are posting as equals, on an equal footing with people of other religions.
 
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Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I’m still working on clarifying for myself what is uniquely frustrating about some discussions with people promoting what they call “Baha’i beliefs” in Internet discussions. Saying that most of the people of the world don’t understand their own scriptures .., except for themselves and some other Baha’is. Saying that what looks obvious to people in their scriptures isn’t always true ... except for what looks obvious to themselves and some other Baha’is. Saying that they themselves and some other Baha’is are the only people in the world who can’t be wrong in what they think are the fundamental beliefs of their religion. Rejecting the most conservative and sectarian views of all religions ... except their own. Saying that all the world’s people need to question their most cherished beliefs ... except for themselves and some other Baha’is. All that while telling themselves that they are posting as equals, on an equal footing with people of other religions.

Jim, for me, what is frustrating is the constant condescending attitude, and disagreement with whatever I say. They're right and I'm wrong. But I know real people like that too. The frustration, when it happens, is my own doing.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Did you see that one Baha’i called what I said in that post “the core of the message of Bahá’u’lláh”?

Did you see the post with the edit. You are aware, I am sure, as it does happen often, that sometimes a post get uploaded prior to one finishing them, especially on a phone keypad with large fingers.

You could had asked for clarity, as I had noted specific points in your reply.

All the best.

Regards Tony
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
All I take real notice of is what the Bab and Bahauallah are reported to have written down during their lifetimes.
In all the years I've been around Baha'is, I know so very little about The Bab. I think I've learned more from you than from Baha'is. Yet, he's supposed to be a manifestation of God? And his announcement in 1844 fulfills prophecies about the Second Coming of Christ? There's so many little things that don't add up for me. For most Baha'is... they see no problem with them.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Jim, for me, what is frustrating is the constant condescending attitude, and disagreement with whatever I say. They're right and I'm wrong. But I know real people like that too. The frustration, when it happens, is my own doing.
In this thread and overall, has things gotten better, and are they getting better? Like with the thread on Hinduism, only Adrian is participating. Do they really care about what others believe? Now that I've just written that I can say that, in a way, yes they do care. But is it only to make "friends". Friends that they can slowly teach the Baha'i Faith to? If they can be honest with themselves, I would think they would have to admit that being nice to others in order to show them the Truth is part of it. But, is really knowing and caring about the beliefs of others?
 
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