What will the Second Coming of Christ look like?

[Trailblazer]

I believe it is the wrong choice. I believe one has to look at the results.

What results would you expect to see if Christ had returned?

Does this mean you have stopped watching for the return of Jesus.

Baha'is are not waiting for the same Jesus to return because we believe that Baha'u'llah was the Comforter and the Spirit of Truth, the return of the Christ Spirit promised by Jesus in John 14, 15 and 16.

If so that means you will be caught by surprise and not make a rational decision or even have the right information to make the needed decision.

Why do you think that? Christians have been saying "Jesus is coming" for eons, but still no Jesus. How much longer will they wait?

Anyone can say "Jesus is coming" but it is not a reality until Jesus actually comes. I believe that all the prophecies were fulfilled in the 19th century, so there was no reason to keep waiting.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And again, What will the Second Coming look like? What are we supposed to be looking for? Has all the prophecies been fulfilled? Baha'is say "yes". Christians say "no". That every eye will see him. That he will return to the Mt. of Olives. There will be the great battle of Armageddon. And on and on. The Baha'i answer is that these things did not get fulfilled literally, but spiritually. He's come to Mt. Carmel. Christians believe Jesus is coming back. Baha'is say the body of Jesus is dead. The Spirit of Christ, in Baha'u'llah, has already come back. Yeah, let's see? Ah, how do I make a "rational" decision on who's right?

CG it looked like as it is recorded. God gave to a chosen Man, or we can say 'Annointed' a Man (Christ means anointed one) a Message.

This message given to the most corrupted people of the time, who were the Persians of 'Elam'. This link discusses the state of Persians in the 1800's, if you wish to understand the ramifications of Messages that both the Bab and Baha'u'llah were asked to give, it is your choice to read of those times.

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Dawn-Breakers: Nabíl’s Narrative of the Early Days of the Bahá’í Revelation, Pages xxxviii-xli

Can you imagine having been commissioned to deliver a Message amongst such corruption and debauchery?

So much prophecy points to such a time, a time that destroys the world that all know and when Faith is made new.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

CG it looked like as it is recorded. God gave to a chosen Man, or we can say 'Annointed' a Man (Christ means anointed one) a Message.

This message given to the most corrupted people of the time, who were the Persians of 'Elam'. This link discusses the state of Persians in the 1800's, if you wish to understand the ramifications of Messages that both the Bab and Baha'u'llah were asked to give, it is your choice to read of those times.

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Dawn-Breakers: Nabíl’s Narrative of the Early Days of the Bahá’í Revelation, Pages xxxviii-xli

Can you imagine having been commissioned to deliver a Message amongst such corruption and debauchery?

So much prophecy points to such a time, a time that destroys the world that all know and when Faith is made new.

Regards Tony

The current situation fits just as well into the Christian interpretation of the prophecies. We could be heading toward Armageddon right now. Baha'is have their "tribulations" that happened before The Bab and Baha'u'llah and now you still have more tribulations coming because their message was rejected by the leaders of the world. Either way, things are going to get worse. So either Jesus will come back or we'll all turn to the Baha's to save us.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I don't believe any Christian group has the whole truth. In addition to that I am an Iconoclast so my views often run contrary to contemporary Christian thinking.

I believe Jesus was from God and the Bible is the Word of God but not things like the additions made by priests or interpretations.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The current situation fits just as well into the Christian interpretation of the prophecies. We could be heading toward Armageddon right now. Baha'is have their "tribulations" that happened before The Bab and Baha'u'llah and now you still have more tribulations coming because their message was rejected by the leaders of the world. Either way, things are going to get worse. So either Jesus will come back or we'll all turn to the Baha's to save us.

Firstly I owe you big time and want to sincerely thank you for all the excellent views you put on the forum because they make me study and do more research and hopefully become more knowledgeable.

I don’t think current Christian interpretations fit nto the current timeframe at all.

Noah constantly called the people to turn to God again and again but they opposed and denied Him and caused Him much suffering. Then after it was clear that none would heed His Call then the doors of calamity opened and civilisation as it was known then was swept away.

Similarly, Baha’u’llah has called the kings and religious leaders of the world to unite and has been ignored for over a century. Since His appeal to the world to unite we have had two world wars and many other conflicts and that all fits in with the current time which is a world stage set for another man made calamity which will bring about a change like with Noah.

We’ve already had the darkening of the sun, the falling stars and the dark day before Baha’u’llah came. The signs now I believe are signs of impending chaos due to the world’s rejection of what was in its best interests - world unity.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The current situation fits just as well into the Christian interpretation of the prophecies. We could be heading toward Armageddon right now. Baha'is have their "tribulations" that happened before The Bab and Baha'u'llah and now you still have more tribulations coming because their message was rejected by the leaders of the world. Either way, things are going to get worse. So either Jesus will come back or we'll all turn to the Baha's to save us.

How about all people doing their bit

Regards Tony

 

[1213]

...The way I interpret these verses is that Jesus is talking to Satan, which I believe is not an entity, but rather symbolizes Jesus' worldly self that savors things that are not of God. Then Jesus tells His disciples that anyone who is going to follow Him should deny their selfish desires and follow Him doing His work, because it would not profit any man to live for their worldly desires in exchange for eternal life of the soul.

I think that is mainly what is written there literally. What I think is your interpretation is the part “Satan, which I believe is not an entity, but rather symbolizes Jesus' worldly self”. That is something that is not said in the Bible. And I try to avoid interpretations that can’t be supported by the Bible. But, I don’t think it is important to know what or who Satan is in that. The important message is that what I think you have correct, “it would not profit any man to live for their worldly desires in exchange for eternal life of the soul”.

 

[CG Didymus]

CG it looked like as it is recorded. God gave to a chosen Man, or we can say 'Annointed' a Man (Christ means anointed one) a Message.

This message given to the most corrupted people of the time, who were the Persians of 'Elam'. This link discusses the state of Persians in the 1800's, if you wish to understand the ramifications of Messages that both the Bab and Baha'u'llah were asked to give, it is your choice to read of those times.

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Dawn-Breakers: Nabíl’s Narrative of the Early Days of the Bahá’í Revelation, Pages xxxviii-xli

Can you imagine having been commissioned to deliver a Message amongst such corruption and debauchery?

So much prophecy points to such a time, a time that destroys the world that all know and when Faith is made new.

Regards Tony

Yes, it fits for Baha'is. Does it fit what Jews are expecting? Or, Hindus? But, since we are talking about the Second Coming of Christ, what is that supposed to look like? Wars and rumors of wars? Still happening. Jesus coming back? No, interpreted by Baha'is to being the "Christ" spirit returning. The beasts and dragons with one of them forcing people to take his mark in order to buy or sell? Hasn't happened. Baha'is say that all the beasts and dragons were the corrupt Islamic leaders from hundreds of years ago. Anything to do with Jerusalem and the Mt. of Olives is switched to Mr. Carmel. The "Lamb" for Christians is Jesus. For Baha'is? One Baha'i here on the forum made the argument that The Bab was the Lamb that was slain. And then the Christians believe in the Battle of Armageddon. When did that happen? Or, how do Baha'is explain how their interpretation is wrong?

You might be right, but, as far as I can tell, the Christian interpretation could still fit with what's happening in the world today.

 

[CG Didymus]

Noah constantly called the people to turn to God again and again but they opposed and denied Him and caused Him much suffering. Then after it was clear that none would heed His Call then the doors of calamity opened and civilisation as it was known then was swept away.

Do we believe the story was literal? Was there a world-wide flood? I don't. So, as Trailblazer like to say, it is just a story. What was the point of the story? Everybody had turned evil and wicked except Noah and his family. They got saved. And the rest of the people were killed. Here I agree with Baha'is... some stories in the Bible have symbolic meaning and were not meant to be taken literally. The message? Don't do evil, follow the laws of God, or he will destroy you.

Similarly, Baha’u’llah has called the kings and religious leaders of the world to unite and has been ignored for over a century. Since His appeal to the world to unite we have had two world wars and many other conflicts and that all fits in with the current time which is a world stage set for another man made calamity which will bring about a change like with Noah.

Problem, the Second Coming prophecies have Jesus/Christ coming back and destroying evil. There is no return and rejection prophesied.

So that is why I still think the Christian interpretation still fits. We have many people saying... here is the Christ, there is the Christ. But it says it will be obvious. Do I want the Christians to be right? Hell no! It'd be much better for the Baha'is to be right. But, are they?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And then the Christians believe in the Battle of Armageddon.

Strange how it all unfolds.

Are you aware that General Allenby, a Christian, in the fist world war considered he was fighting the Battle of Armageddon. It started on the Plains of Megiddo

Apocalypse Then: the Battle of Megiddo, 1918

The earlier battle was to take Jerusalem and it was done in a miraculous way. General Allenby was inspired by a dream and a Biblical passage and too the city with little bloodshed. This is one take on that story;

JERUSALEM

General Allenby also had orders to save Abdul'baha and the prison city of Akka also was taken in an amazing way and Abdul'baha was spared. The orders of the Ottamans was to Kill Abdul'baha. Abdul'baha was given a knighthood for the service he did during the war in helping all people. Abdul'baha had prepared for the first world war and one can ask how he knew to prepare as he did. Or just consider it all a coincidence.

All the best CG, Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Does it fit what Jews are expecting? Or, Hindus?

It is all up to their own choices. The world has always waited, now is the time to act.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So that is why I still think the Christian interpretation still fits. We have many people saying... here is the Christ, there is the Christ. But it says it will be obvious. Do I want the Christians to be right? Hell no! It'd be much better for the Baha'is to be right. But, are they?

CG, there is no excaping what is to come, it has become obvious to me that this civilisation will fall. A Zoroastrian Prophecy talks about a object from space hitting the earth in this time. The Bible talks about 2/3 being cut off. In whatever way it will be, it will happen.

I see there will be a lot of rebuilding, as the vision for the future has villages surrounding the house of worship and all the auxiliary buildings caring for the sick, the old, the frail, the poor and needy. I see each town will provide for for themselves and trade between other areas. I see big cities will not exist. The prophecy has them toppling.

That is a wait and see, but the way the world is going, it may be a 3rd world war that causes this level of destruction, we may need a war to show how stupid and ignorant of God, we really are.

After each war humanity build first the League of Nations and then the United Nations, both without the authority or teeth to make any real change. A world parliament with a overriding power, that Nations will submit to, will be established, Baha'u'llah has foretold this.

All the best CG, no matter what happens, God is LOVE.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Problem, the Second Coming prophecies have Jesus/Christ coming back and destroying evil. There is no return and rejection prophesied.

This is a prophecy I see covers the material and spiritual aspects of what is to come.

Isaiah 24:20

I see it says that a material only based civilisation will never rise again and at the same time I see the earth will change its axis, which that latter thought comes from other passages and what I have read in the Baha'i Writings.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

I think that is mainly what is written there literally. What I think is your interpretation is the part “Satan, which I believe is not an entity, but rather symbolizes Jesus' worldly self”. That is something that is not said in the Bible. And I try to avoid interpretations that can’t be supported by the Bible. But, I don’t think it is important to know what or who Satan is in that. The important message is that what I think you have correct, “it would not profit any man to live for their worldly desires in exchange for eternal life of the soul”.

As I have been saying, we all have to interpret what we read as we read, so interpreting is unavoidable, Imo.

But I agree that he important message is “it would not profit any man to live for their worldly desires in exchange for eternal life of the soul”

 

[CG Didymus]

It is all up to their own choices. The world has always waited, now is the time to act.

Regards Tony

Baha'is can't get involved with politics, so do Baha'i act?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Baha'is can't get involved with politics, so do Baha'i act?

Too right they do

How did you go with General Allenby and Megiddo Meggido: Allenby's Masterstroke

Consider this Prophecy - Isaiah 35:2 "It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given to it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God."

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

Do we believe the story was literal? Was there a world-wide flood? I don't. So, as Trailblazer like to say, it is just a story. What was the point of the story? Everybody had turned evil and wicked except Noah and his family. They got saved. And the rest of the people were killed. Here I agree with Baha'is... some stories in the Bible have symbolic meaning and were not meant to be taken literally. The message? Don't do evil, follow the laws of God, or he will destroy you.

Problem, the Second Coming prophecies have Jesus/Christ coming back and destroying evil. There is no return and rejection prophesied.

So that is why I still think the Christian interpretation still fits. We have many people saying... here is the Christ, there is the Christ. But it says it will be obvious. Do I want the Christians to be right? Hell no! It'd be much better for the Baha'is to be right. But, are they?

Another way of destroying evil is by transforming people and society into virtuous beings just like the light of the sun dissipates darkness. In this way evil becomes non existent as goodness increases.

 

[rational experiences]

The scientific evaluation of the sacrifice of human life in Genetics was a medical Healer science advice, and calculated review.

What was named in ancient times as the passing of a human law via the Christ Tribunal which forbade any more use of the pyramid and temple science technologies.

As a world male agreed communal awareness in the sciences.

A value was given to calculate as C 100....the Christ 1000 and so the same for Satan 1000 as a return variable.

And then the stars were watched in their fall out and recorded scientifically and scientific journals updated by that star fall.

Mathematics said by the Year 2000 and then 12 which we relate to Holy light and natural time.....that the Mother Abomination of heating up Holy Mother of God O the Earth spatial body....would end. As prophetically meaning mathematical science reference....which was known historically by a male science community.

And it was based on gas released into space heated by UFO mass radiation, star fall and the asteroid wandering star. As the spatial cooling Saviour advice...to stop heated space radiation effects.

Seeing Earth O was a calculated cycle around the Sun moving through heated space.

The fact of natural mind advice. Males said that the Noble Gases in the heavenly atmosphere, in which we live, for we, humans live in the heavenly body...for it surrounds Earth O the God planet, were evaluated by the symbolism CH.

So we live in a natural CH oxygen/water atmospheric life support living condition, so we have not lost the CH or Christ value.....we lost some of it.

It was attacked and burnt out, as the story of Satanism, occult science/radiation attack.

The evaluated condition said that a new body of heavenly gas amassing would be received in the Year 2012...and a mass healing/cellular revival in genetics would occur as notification of its arrival.

Instead we got ebola as a Christ stigmata advice...so we know due to science beginning attack again in 1900s that we did not get the Christ Holy return of MASS.

 

[rational experiences]

Somewhere hidden in all this is that the Baha'is believe the second coming has happened. But, if the true Messiah is to return to the Mt. of Olives, then what do you think of a person of Shia Islamic descent, that is born in Persia, that claims to be the return? He is taken as a prisoner to Akka, Israel. And later, the Baha'i set up their world headquarters on Mt. Carmel in Haifa.

But, I don't think it is correct to call him the "second coming" of Christ, because the Baha'is believe Muhammad was a "Christ" and just before Baha'u'llah, the Baha'is had a person called The Bab, that along with Baha'u'llah, was a "Christ". So there was three people that came after Jesus. But I don't think any of these "second coming" people had anything to do with the Mt. of Olives. So forget about what the second coming should look like. What should the first coming look like? And is there anyway that the Jews can fit in four people that the Baha'is say were "Messiahs"?

The ancient male science wisdom always said that there is only One God or Allah O Earth, the stone and nothing before it....as a truth of our planet.

Said that the Sun attacked the One God O and it survived that attack/bodily conversion and sacrifice of its own form/body.

Then said that a stone/being a wandering star body, released its spirit, gas and saved/assisted the body of One God....which was a prophet as stated by the male science self, human making all male claims by his thinking. And seeing males quantify that they can patent their thoughts, they give claim to owning personally what they think about.....in their own male egotism....factually.

So maths said a prophet was a body of stone released to save/support as a Saviour or Messiah....a mass of gas spirits the body of One O....why stone was revered as a holy messenger.

Yet gaining the physical mass presence of the stone coming to save Earth caused a huge calamity to the living humans who received it....how it was scientifically taught. So the Prophet would do great harm to the physical life of the Nature on Earth.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The scientific evaluation of the sacrifice of human life in Genetics was a medical Healer science advice, and calculated review.

What was named in ancient times as the passing of a human law via the Christ Tribunal which forbade any more use of the pyramid and temple science technologies.

As a world male agreed communal awareness in the sciences.

A value was given to calculate as C 100....the Christ 1000 and so the same for Satan 1000 as a return variable.

And then the stars were watched in their fall out and recorded scientifically and scientific journals updated by that star fall.

Mathematics said by the Year 2000 and then 12 which we relate to Holy light and natural time.....that the Mother Abomination of heating up Holy Mother of God O the Earth spatial body....would end. As prophetically meaning mathematical science reference....which was known historically by a male science community.

And it was based on gas released into space heated by UFO mass radiation, star fall and the asteroid wandering star. As the spatial cooling Saviour advice...to stop heated space radiation effects.

Seeing Earth O was a calculated cycle around the Sun moving through heated space.

The fact of natural mind advice. Males said that the Noble Gases in the heavenly atmosphere, in which we live, for we, humans live in the heavenly body...for it surrounds Earth O the God planet, were evaluated by the symbolism CH.

So we live in a natural CH oxygen/water atmospheric life support living condition, so we have not lost the CH or Christ value.....we lost some of it.

It was attacked and burnt out, as the story of Satanism, occult science/radiation attack.

The evaluated condition said that a new body of heavenly gas amassing would be received in the Year 2012...and a mass healing/cellular revival in genetics would occur as notification of its arrival.

Instead we got ebola as a Christ stigmata advice...so we know due to science beginning attack again in 1900s that we did not get the Christ Holy return of MASS.

That is not comprehensible.

Regards Tony