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Understanding gravity

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
You're talking about tidal aspects. The friction in the tides is slowing the rotation rate of the Earth. To conserve energy, the moon moves away in the gravitational field. It isn't 'pushing' the moon farther away. The moon is in orbit and the orbit expands because of conservation of energy.

/E: One aspect of this that is initially counter-intuitive is that if the moon slows down in its orbit, it moves *farther away* from the Earth. A slower moving orbiting object is farther away.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Yeah, if I remember it right, the ocean is slowing the moon down, causing it to slowly depart.
nay

an orbit is a compromise
speed vs gravity

if the moon is truly increasing in orbit.....
the speed of the moon is 'outweighing' the gravity that now holds it

all at once...when the orbit fails.....
the moon will simply disappear on a trajectory determined by that moment of fail

but that play of worry doesn't help this topic
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
nay

an orbit is a compromise
speed vs gravity

if the moon is truly increasing in orbit.....
the speed of the moon is 'outweighing' the gravity that now holds it

all at once...when the orbit fails.....
the moon will simply disappear on a trajectory determined by that moment of fail

but that play of worry doesn't help this topic
I think the reason why the ocean is slowing the moon down is that the ocean is pulled by the moon's gravity and causing the tides, however, there's a delay in action. Basically, the ocean tide that's pulled by the moon's gravity is slightly behind the moon's orbit. It takes the water a little time to get pulled up. But because it's slightly behind the moon's orbit, it essentially is pulling the moon backwards a little and causing it to slow down.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
anyone care to define gravity?
The cause and nature of gravity remains uncertain, but the Law of Gravitation is defined. Gravity is a measurement of attraction between masses which so far has had very predictable results when using the right math models. It is believed that the strength of the attraction is affected by the square of the distance and the mass of each object. That is what the measurements show and what the resulting math always predicts. If you could define gravity you'd be very famous. For example if you could incontrovertibly show it was an affect due to some sort of higher dimensional acceleration or was a combination of some other forces you'd be 'The Man' or 'The Lady'. Actually they'd let you pick. You might even get to rename gravity 'The Force Explained by Thief'.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I think the reason why the ocean is slowing the moon down is that the ocean is pulled by the moon's gravity and causing the tides, however, there's a delay in action. Basically, the ocean tide that's pulled by the moon's gravity is slightly behind the moon's orbit. It takes the water a little time to get pulled up. But because it's slightly behind the moon's orbit, it essentially is pulling the moon backwards a little and causing it to slow down.
I think of tidal surge as a side effect

but let's entertain the notion ….the moon is slowing down

that would bring the orbit......closer
and eventually....too close
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
iGT6a.jpg
That's better! But harder, I think, for a lot of people to grok.
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
I think of tidal surge as a side effect

but let's entertain the notion ….the moon is slowing down

that would bring the orbit......closer
and eventually....too close
Thinking about it, it's reversed, isn't it? The moon is slowly moving away, causing it to slow down. Just like pulling your arms in or extending them in a spin will speed you up or slow you down. Somethin' like that?
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Thinking about it, it's reversed, isn't it? The moon is slowly moving away, causing it to slow down. Just like pulling your arms in or extending them in a spin will speed you up or slow you down. Somethin' like that?
no

on the small cale you mention....it's speed vs momentum

orbit...is a bit more
speed vs gravity

the moon loses speed...….it will spiral to the earth
if it gains speed......it will spiral outward until gravity cannot hold it
then we kiss it goodbye

but the moon is not going to gain or lose speed
and the repeat of orbit will play out to reveal
the speed was enough to keep it where it is
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
Every field has a corresponding particle representation in QM.
That is the dogma that keeps the graviton alive. But nobody is actively looking for it. The enery levels, as you said, are out of this world, even for the lowest of the widely different predictions. And, akaik, I may not be up-to-date, the theorist still haven't solved the self interaction paradox.
 
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