Who is Baháʼu'lláh?

[oldbadger]

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The universe is without beginning or end in respect to time and space. There are worlds, universes and dimensions that are incomprehensible to the mind of man. Life exists on other planets.

So you do believe that life exists (abounds?) all around this universe and (probably others?

Doesn't that throw your God messenger claim in to touch, somewhat?

 

[Dawnofhope]

The above sent to another........
Does the above simply mean that Bahai does not believe in Spirits?
Yes/No?

What do you mean by spirits? Contacting the dead and clairvoyance? Ghosts, angels, demons, kami, deva?

 

[Dawnofhope]

So you do believe that life exists (abounds?) all around this universe and (probably others?

Doesn't that throw your God messenger claim in to touch, somewhat?

Why should it?

 

[oldbadger]

What do you mean by spirits? Contacting the dead and clairvoyance? Ghosts, angels, demons, kami, deva?

Yes. Spirits.

 

[oldbadger]

Why should it?

..... because ..... if, say, every thousandth planet holds intelligent life, then Bahauallah is, say, one amongst hundreds of thousands in this galaxy alone, and one amongst about ten trillion in our universe alone.

Or do you think that God only worries about little earth, and humans?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Yes. Spirits.

Baha’is would pray to and for people who have passed on. We don’t attend seances or consult clairvoyants.

 

[oldbadger]

Baha’is would pray to and for people who have passed on. We don’t attend seances or consult clairvoyants.

So..... you do not believe in Spirits. Is that right?

 

[Terry Sampson]

So what do you understand the Bible says?

• John 18:
  • 33 Therefore Pilate entered again into the Praetorium, and summoned Jesus and said to Him, “Are You the King of the Jews?”
    
  • 34 Jesus answered, “Are you saying this on your own initiative, or did others tell you about Me?”
  • 35 Pilate answered, “I am not a Jew, am I? Your own nation and the chief priests delivered You to me; what have You done?”
  • 36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.”
• 1 Corinthians 15:
  • 50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
  • 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
  • 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
  • 53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.
  • 54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory.
  • 55 O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?”

• It's entirely possible that I will have so little imperishable body, if any, when I die that I am nothing more than a very faint imperishable version of former myself.

• Why?

• Me: It's just a very speculative conjecture, and more hopeful thinking than scripture-based.

 

[Dawnofhope]

..... because ..... if, say, every thousandth planet holds intelligent life, then Bahauallah is, say, one amongst hundreds of thousands in this galaxy alone, and one amongst about ten trillion in our universe alone.

Or do you think that God only worries about little earth, and humans?

I can’t imagine Bahá’u’lláh being the Manifestation of God for life beyond earth. There’s no reason there can’t be Manifestations of God elsewhere in the universe.

 

[oldbadger]

I can’t imagine Bahá’u’lláh being the Manifestation of God for life beyond earth. There’s no reason there can’t be Manifestations of God elsewhere in the universe.

OK..... and how about Spirits? Does Bahai believe in Spirits?

 

[Terry Sampson]

speaking in tongues

Did you ever personally witness someone sing a song "tn tongues" to the Lord in the presence of 15+ people, and when the song finished, another member of the group reported hearing the song in English and gave the interpretation of it in English and a second woman confirmed the interpretation but affirmed that she had heard it in Spanish?

 

[Dawnofhope]

So..... you do not believe in Spirits. Is that right?

Beyond the souls of those that pass from this world to the next the Baha’i writings don’t have too much to say. There is acknowledgment of psychic forces but the Baha’i writings strongly discourage making use of these even to help others.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Did you ever personally witness someone sing a song "tn tongues" to the Lord in the presence of 15+ people, and when the song finished, another member of the group reported hearing the song in English and gave the interpretation of it in English and a second woman confirmed the interpretation but affirmed that she had heard it in Spanish?

I was able to speak in tongues shortly after being baptised along with many others in my congregation. I can’t recall anyone being able to convincingly interpret what anyone else was saying. I attended two churches like this within a year but didn’t feel comfortable so left.

 

[Terry Sampson]

The universe is without beginning or end in respect to time and space. There are worlds, universes and dimensions that are incomprehensible to the mind of man. Life exists on other planets.

That's a decent summary.
Try this on for size:

• The cosmos is infinite, i.e. boundless, and eternal, i.e. without beginning and without end. It has always existed, will always continue to exist, and will never be exactly the same at any two instants in time. On that I think you and I would agree.
• As for the physical content of the one and only, boundless, eternal cosmos, my impression is that you either haven't bothered to think about it much and that your Baha'i teachings recommends avoiding expending time and effort in thinking about it, no?

 

[oldbadger]

Beyond the souls of those that pass from this world to the next the Baha’i writings don’t have too much to say. There is acknowledgment of psychic forces but the Baha’i writings strongly discourage making use of these even to help others.

The reason for my interest is because of the continued and repeated use of the word 'spiritual' by Bahais.

Without a firm belief in 'spirits' its use seems to be inappropriate and even shallow. .... is all.

 

[Dawnofhope]

As for the physical content of the one and only, boundless, eternal cosmos, my impression is that you either haven't bothered to think about it much and that your Baha'i teachings recommends avoiding expending time and effort in thinking about it, no?

There’s certainly nothing in the Baha’i writings that would stop me considering the nature of the universe. I am a busy person with many responsibilities. I tend to be preoccupied with aspects of practical living and tend to avoid complex issues of little relevance to the world we live in.

 

[Dawnofhope]

The reason for my interest is because of the continued and repeated use of the word 'spiritual' by Bahais.

Without a firm belief in 'spirits' its use seems to be inappropriate and even shallow. .... is all.

I think we are have very different areas of interest when it comes to spirituality. Perhaps you have an interest in clairvoyance and practices I wouldn’t be
Involved with. You have a negative view of my spiritual outlook and practices. Each to their own. I have no interest in negative comments.

Spirituality is clearly broad and multifaceted.

Spirituality - Wikipedia

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There’s certainly nothing in the Baha’i writings that would stop me considering the nature of the universe. I am a busy person with many responsibilities. I tend to be preoccupied with aspects of practical living and tend to avoid complex issues of little relevance to the world we live in.

That's a decent summary.
Try this on for size:

• The cosmos is infinite, i.e. boundless, and eternal, i.e. without beginning and without end. It has always existed, will always continue to exist, and will never be exactly the same at any two instants in time. On that I think you and I would agree.
• As for the physical content of the one and only, boundless, eternal cosmos, my impression is that you either haven't bothered to think about it much and that your Baha'i teachings recommends avoiding expending time and effort in thinking about it, no?

Still too small Terry - All we can know is but One Lamp - An ancient tradition was quoted in the Baha'i Writings and it Says this;

"..Consider the following well-known tradition and examine its meanings indicative of the vastness of the cosmos and its awesome limitless expanse: 'God, exalted be He, fashioned one hundred thousand, thousand lamps and suspended the Throne, the earth, the heavens and whatsoever is between them, even Heaven and Hell -- all of these in a single lamp. And only God knows what is in the rest of the lamps.' The fact that philosophers and sages have posited limits and restrictions for such matters is to be explained by the limitations of people~s minds and perceptions and the blindness of the followers of allusions, whose natures and intellects have been rendered dull and inanimate by the interposition of many veils....'

That is from the Tablet of the Universe by Abdul'Baha, this is a provisional Translation - Tablet of the Universe

There is quite a lot offered in the Baha'i Writings on this topic.

Regards Tony

 

[Terry Sampson]

I tend to be preoccupied with aspects of practical living and tend to avoid complex issues of little relevance to the world we live in.

That's a reasonable goal and I can understand your lack of interest in that which you consider to be irrelevant to the world we live in. However I only brought the matter up because you charged me earlier with "being on shaky ground" if I can't even explain my Christian view let alone produce reasonable explanations to back it up.

You’re on shaky ground if you can’t even explain your Christian view let alone produce reasonable explanations to back it up

Doesn't seem fair to say: "Explain yourself, but do so only in terms that are purely relevant to this world," when (a) Jesus told Pilate, "my kingdom is not of this world", and (b) Paul said:

• 50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
• 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
• 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
• 53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.
• 54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory.
• 55 O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?”

 

[Terry Sampson]

Still too small Terry - All we can know is but One Lamp

LOL! My boundless, eternal Cosmos is "still too small"? Apparently you think that you can wrap your head around a boundless, eternal Cosmos and have room to spare. Neat trick. That's quite a large head that you've got on your shoulders.