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Endless wars

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
What I saw from my brief involvements in the MIC is that companies I worked for
very often didn't fare well getting government cooperation, eg, export permission.
To those who would claim that they control government via political donations,
I say the burden on them is to show how much to whom. It's not info I have.

Campaign finance reform could exacerbate the problem. If power is taken from
one entity (companies in the MIC), this enhances power of others, eg, the
media. Note that news organizations do a whole lotta unregulated advocacy,
& they have great influence regarding war. Their record is mixed...sometimes
portraying war in a rousing way...other times making it look miserable.

Control would be in a continuum ranging from
minor influence to direct payoffs for actions.
Does anyone have evidence for the control they claim?
Is it significant relative to voters & politicians seeking war?
Thank you,
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
I welcome the claimants to research their MIC control theory.
I already did mine, ie, which presidents reigned over which wars,
& the election results.
Just on first glance... Misc defense is ranked 42nd.

However ( you'll appreciate this ) "Lawyers and Lobbyists" is ranked #5.

Lawyers and Lobbyists.... Grumble-grumble-grumble ..

I guess in order to make an informed judgement as an outsider I'd need to drill down into the data to see whom these Lawyers and Lobbyists represent.

Care to make a guess whether or not that information is easily attained? o_O:rolleyes:

I completely trust your judgement as an insider. But it seems to me, that I will encounter hurdle after hurdle after hurdle trying to "follow" the money as an outsider and a concerned citizen.

In light of this, what do think? Is it useful to make this financial contribution information more accessible for people like me?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Just on first glance... Misc defense is ranked 42nd.

However ( you'll appreciate this ) "Lawyers and Lobbyists" is ranked #5.

Lawyers and Lobbyists.... Grumble-grumble-grumble ..
Grrrrrrr!!!!!!!
Lawyers lavishly lobbying lawyers in legislatures.
Tis truly a country run by & for lawyers.
I guess in order to make an informed judgement as an outsider I'd need to drill down into the data to see whom these Lawyers and Lobbyists represent.

Care to make a guess whether or not that information is easily attained? o_O:rolleyes:
Difficult?
I completely trust your judgement as an insider.
Don't trust me too much.
I was a very very lowly insider.
What it really conferred upon me wasn't so much inside info,
but rather an interest in news related to the company & industry.
It's still a not so common perspective.
But it seems to me, that I will encounter hurdle after hurdle after hurdle trying to "follow" the money as an outsider and a concerned citizen.

In light of this, what do think? Is it useful to make this financial contribution information more accessible for people like me?
It might be useful to you.
But on the whole, I doubt it'd make any difference to voters.
They vote for war mongers because they like the results, all
their carping about war notwithstanding.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Yes. I realize we were attacked. I realize that Afghanis have problems. I also realize that we are involved for oil now. We're defending oil interests. This is not good. Its time to leave. Either conquer the place or leave. This long term intervention is not constitutional. It is divisive, draws energy from our country, distracts from troubles at home, and it is not affordable. The 1 trillion dollars is mostly being spent to help Afghanis, to get their cooperation and to defend oil. Meanwhile here in the US we're ignoring the problems of our homeless people. Imagine 1 trillion dollars used to end homelessness and provide mental treatment. Seems like its instead being spent on creating new homeless veterans.

Afghanistan does not produce oil. It has untapped oil.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
They vote for war mongers because they like the results
I would only offer this one tidbit of perspective:

I doubt that the voters like the results. I think, they like the way it makes them feel: Virile, Vigorous, and... you guessed it... Potent.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I would only offer this one tidbit of perspective:

I doubt that the voters like the results. I think, they like the way it makes them feel: Virile, Vigorous, and... you guessed it... Potent.
I thought of our discussion thread when I saw this in the news....
Hillary Clinton emerges as top choice of Democratic voters in Harvard-Harris presidential poll
Assuming accuracy....
Hillary....the one who voted to start & continue mid-east wars...the
one who threatened to obliterate Iran...the one who called the Iranian
people her enemy....she's now polled to be Democrat voters' top choice.
There are non-hawk candidates. And they languish in single digit numbers.
Possibilities...
1) War isn't that important an issue compared to others.
2) War is good.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
I thought of our discussion thread when I saw this in the news....
Hillary Clinton emerges as top choice of Democratic voters in Harvard-Harris presidential poll
Hillary....the one who voted to start & continue mid-east wars...the
one who threatened to obliterate Iran...the one who called the Iranian
people her enemy....she's now polled to be Democrat voters' top choice.
There are non-hawk candidates. And they languish in single digit numbers.
Possibilities...
1) War isn't that important an issue compared to others.
2) War is good.
Oh dear.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
I know.
Trump fans will be salivating & chortling with glee
at the prospect of 2020 being a rerun of 2016.
My hopes for President Andrew Yang are
thoroughly dashed. Rassin frassin argch!
The play book against Hillary is already written, tested, and verified to be effective. It's like a huge tactical error... I hope I'm wrong.. I do see her as the lesser of two evils..

But the presidency seems to change people , rapidly, as soon as they take office. So honestly it's very hard to predict what anyone is really going to do once in office.

I like Glen James ( Jim ) Webb honestly, what ever happened to him. I say a Webb / Warren ticket could be the beginning of 16 years of Democratic power in the White house...

Probably not something you would like... But I'm speaking... strategerie.

Edit: Jim Webb, democrat from Virginia, I think?
 
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dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
I find it sad that our choices were "two evils", mix or match which was the lesser or greater of the two.
Have you heard of "ranked" voting... I think that's what it's called.

I think 4 things would open up the playing field for mo'better choices:

1) Ranked Voting
2) Public Funding of Campaigns
3) Vote by mail in addition to the ballot box.
4) Election day is a Federal holiday.

yup... it's Ranked voting - Wikipedia

"In a ranked-choice voting system, voters always have more than two options"

it's not just a "leftie" thang either. Libertarians benefit too @Revoltingest ...
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Have you heard of "ranked" voting... I think that's what it's called.

I think 4 things would open up the playing field for mo'better choices:

1) Ranked Voting
2) Public Funding of Campaigns
3) Vote by mail in addition to the ballot box.
4) Election day is a Federal holiday.

yup... it's Ranked voting - Wikipedia

I like these, but I don't see #2 happening in the near future. The most powerful in office would do everything in their power to prevent this leveling of the playing field.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
The play book against Hillary is already written, tested, and verified to be effective. It's like a huge tactical error... I hope I'm wrong.. I do see her as the lesser of two evils..

But the presidency seems to change people , rapidly, as soon as they take office. So honestly it's very hard to predict what anyone is really going to do once in office.

I like Glen James ( Jim ) Webb honestly, what ever happened to him. I say a Webb / Warren ticket could be the beginning of 16 years of Democratic power in the White house...

Probably not something you would like... But I'm speaking... strategerie.

Edit: Jim Webb, democrat from Virginia, I think?
A Pocahontas fan, eh?
Hillary the lesser of 2 evils, eh?
It's OK with me for us to assess candidates differently.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
A Pocahontas fan, eh?
Helllllloooooooo Native American Princess.... ( nurse )

upload_2019-12-10_8-45-35.png
 

MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
Confidential documents reveal U.S. officials failed to tell the truth about the war in Afghanistan. "Since 2001, more than 775,000 U.S. troops have deployed to Afghanistan, many repeatedly. Of those, 2,300 died there and 20,589 were wounded in action, according to Defense Department figures."
Deep state rules America, voices of people are not counted in deception fog.

Being one of the last baby boomers I remember V-nam like it was yesterday. I joined the army during wartime when my friends were being drafted. After I got out I became anti-V war. I didn't protest etc but still I knew then that the war was not something the USA should have joined. So my past is influencing my present. I admire our soldiers but pretty much have lost faith with our most of military and congressional etc leaders. We are experiencing the very thing Eisenhower warned us about meaning the military industrial juggernaut. I say no war unless there is a direct threat to our nation. I mean direct, no proactive adventures.
 
He warns of the potentially corrupting effect of the military industrial complex
(MIC)... The better explanation for our starting wars is that politicians see that waging
them bodes well for power.

It was originally intended to be the military-industrial-congressional complex which accounted for the politician's self-interest, or economic interests of specific districts where companies were based.
 

leov

Well-Known Member
It was originally intended to be the military-industrial-congressional complex which accounted for the politician's self-interest, or economic interests of specific districts where companies were based.
Imo, this war was expansion of what was called 'operation Gladio' creation of endless unaccountable situation that can be turned any direction.
 
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