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So What Happened To All The Changes, Tribulations, And Woe Jesus Had Promised?

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Fundamentalists always make that argument. Sad. You all sure drive people away from Christianity.

Not really, it is my duty of love to be honest with you. I believe God's Word says that all who continue in sin will be punished for it. It is a fearful thing to stand in judgment before the living God. Many however will only find this out when it is too late.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Cain practiced cruelty toward Abel. Why didn't God just get rid of them and start over then? Nah! It was much more fun to wait until there were a lot of people - women, children, pregnant women. THEN, horrifically drown them all. Keep in mind that when Cain killed Abel, your God already knew he was going to wait some years and then horrifically drown everyone.

What a merciful Guy He really is.

What does this say about you? You think waiting until there were a lot of people was more merciful than just zapping Cain and Abel. You think horrifically drowning all those people was more merciful than just poofing them off the face of the earth.

The imagination of his heart was not evil continually like those living just prior to the flood. You do err not knowing the scriptures. God never forces anyone to follow him and is patient with us not willing that anyone should perish but that all should come to repentance..

Yep have to love God's mercy and patience toward us.
 
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3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
CAN I GET A HALLELUJAH!
Gosh, I thought PROSELYTIZING was not permitted.
Oh,was that "God's word"? I thought that was you proselytizing. Yeah. They seem to be in short supply since the days of Athena.

There is no PROSELYTIZING. I have only shared God's Word with you. It shows why you are in error and why you do not understand it because you do not know God.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Yadda, yadda, yadda. But you haven't been able to show where anything I said was wrong. If the sons of God came to earth and mated with humab females then Jesus was not The Only Begotten Son.

Show where I'm wrong. Show where you know the scriptures better than this atheist.

Sure no problem. God made known the virgin birth of Mary to Mary by the Angel of the Lord *Luke 1:26-37. Mary's response was [38], And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it to me according to your word. And the angel departed from her.

Doesn't sound like rape to me.

...........

Genesis 6:2. The sons of God — Those who were called by the name of the Lord, and called upon that name; married the daughters of men — Those that were profane, and strangers to God. The posterity of Seth did not keep to themselves as they ought, but intermingled with the race of Cain: they took them wives of all which they chosen — They chose only by the eye. They saw that they were fair — Which was all they looked at.

All those who believe and follow God's Word are sons and daughters of God.....

1 John 3:1
Behold, what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knows us not, because it knew him not.

1 John 3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it does not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Truly truly I say unto you unless you are born again you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven *John 3:3-7. Your only showing your lack of understanding of the scriptures and your ignorance of Gods' Word because you do not know God.

Your welcome :)
 
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3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
You keep making that nonsense accusation. However, you have been unable to show where I am wrong or where I have misquoted your scripture. This is your opportunity to show your greater knowledge. Go for it.

You have been shown where and why you are wrong all through this conversation. Sadly you are only repeating yourself and in denial and only showing your lack of understanding of the scriptures and your ignorance of Gods' Word because you do not know God :)
 

ecco

Veteran Member
The imagination of his heart was not evil continually like those living just prior to the flood.

Yep. You are right. And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Therefore, God was saddened. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

What did sad God decide to do? And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Wow. Your Omniscient God is repenteth because the creatures that your Omnipotent God created didn't turn out to be goody goodies. Omniscient God knew before he created Adam & Eve that his creations would cause Him repentance. Omniscient God knew before he created Adam & Eve that his creations would cause Him to kill them all (and also all the animals who did nothing wrong).

You do err not knowing the scriptures.

What part of scripture did I get wrong? Please be specific. After all, I just copied and pasted from YOUR KJV. It's hard to do that wrong.



God never forces anyone to follow him

Really? You wrote...
I believe God's Word says that all who continue in sin will be punished for it. It is a fearful thing to stand in judgment before the living God.

That sounds like you believe God's word because you fear his punishment.
That sounds like you believe God's word because you fear standing in judgment before the living God.

Somehow you don't understand that instilling fear in someone is forcing them to do things. If I put a gun to your head and tell you to do ten push-ups, you are going to try really hard.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
There is no PROSELYTIZING. I have only shared God's Word with you.

That is not true. You shared your words with us. You are not God.

Here is what you wrote...
They did not listen and did not obey God's Word. Nothing has changed today. God is warning all mankind because he is not willing that anyone should perish but that all should come to repentance and be saved *2 Peter 3:9-13. Those who do not listen to God's warnings today, just like the those before the flood and those of Sodom and Gommorah of yesterday will reap the consequnces of their own actions. God is not willing that any should perish and is a God of mercy to all those who believe and follow his Word but to all those who deny Gods' Word our God will be a fiery furnace with all delusion of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved and for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. It doesn't have to be that way though. We all choose our path and who we follow.

It shows why you are in error and why you do not understand it because you do not know God.

You tell me that you think I am in error, yet you do not know the difference between God's words and your words. Have you really indoctrinated yourself so deeply that you think your words have the same weight as God's?
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Sure no problem. God made known the virgin birth of Mary to Mary by the Angel of the Lord *Luke 1:26-37. Mary's response was [38], And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it to me according to your word. And the angel departed from her.

Doesn't sound like rape to me.


Your short version skips over a few important points...(My emphases)

26And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, 27To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. 28And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 29And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. 30And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. 36And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. 37For with God nothing shall be impossible. 38And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.


  • a virgin espoused to a man - A married woman
  • the angel came in unto her - The Angel came into her without her permission
  • when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying - This frightened Mary. One aspect of rape is to instill fear into the victim
  • thou shalt conceive in thy womb - This was an edict, not a request
  • How shall this be, seeing I know not a man - Mary is confused as well as frightened
  • The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee - Another edict, this time putting even more pressure on since the Holy Ghost is 1/3 God
  • the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee - Modern rapists use chloroform.
  • Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. Threatened, frightened, confused, overwhelmed, Mary finally accedes
  • And the angel departed from her. Only then does the angel leave her

Not rape huh?
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
What part of scripture did I get wrong? Please be specific. After all, I just copied and pasted from YOUR KJV. It's hard to do that wrong.
All of it as shown you in the previous post. It is your interpretation and misrepresentation that is in error as shown through the scriptures shared with you. Your welcome :)
Really? You wrote... That sounds like you believe God's word because you fear his punishment. That sounds like you believe God's word because you fear standing in judgment before the living God.
Indeed that is what I believe and what the scriptures teach. Thankyou for sharing it. What you believe is up to you.
Somehow you don't understand that instilling fear in someone is forcing them to do things. If I put a gun to your head and tell you to do ten push-ups, you are going to try really hard.
You are free to do as you wish no one is forcing you. According to the scriptures I believe we all answer only to God come judgment day. :)
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
That is not true. You shared your words with us. You are not God.
Sure it is true. I shared God's Word showing you are in error but you do not believe it because you do not understand the scriptures and you do not know God. As it is written the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned, For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He takes the wise in their own craftiness.
Here is what you wrote...
Well thankyou I did write that. I cannot take credit for it however as it is based on the scriptures therefore it is God's Word not mine and was only shared with you as to what I believe against your false claims, accusations and teachings, but you do not believe it. You are free to believe as you wish. I do not judge you. I believe we all answer to God come judgment day.
You tell me that you think I am in error, yet you do not know the difference between God's words and your words. Have you really indoctrinated yourself so deeply that you think your words have the same weight as God's?
You indeed are in error as shown you through the scriptures already that you take out of context to try to make them say things that they do not. Sadly you do not understand the scripture because you do not know God. If you knew God's Word you would know just because I do not quote reference sometimes does not mean I am not quoting scripture. You are free to believe as you wish. I do not judge you. :)
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Let's address this foolishness in some detail comments provided to your dot points.....:)
Your short version skips over a few important points...(My emphases)
26And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, 27To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. 28And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 29And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. 30And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. 36And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. 37For with God nothing shall be impossible. 38And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
Your comments in the dot points below and my response for each one...
  • a virgin espoused to a man - A married woman
WRONG!

The Greek Word for espoused (not spouse) is μνηστεύω; mnēsteuō From a derivative of G3415; to give a souvenir engagement present, that is, betroth: - espouse.

So the Greek word and scripture application is....

" a virgin who was engaged to a man" not married to a man as you claim!

PARALLEL

New International Version
to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin's name was Mary.

New Living Translation
to a virgin named Mary. She was engaged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of King David.

English Standard Version
to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the virgin’s name was Mary.

Berean Study Bible
to a virgin pledged in marriage to a man named Joseph, who was of the house of David. And the virgin’s name was Mary.

Berean Literal Bible
to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the name of the virgin was Mary.

New American Standard Bible
to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the descendants of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

New King James Version
to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin’s name was Mary.

King James Bible
To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

Christian Standard Bible
to a virgin engaged to a man named Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin's name was Mary.

Contemporary English Version
with a message for a virgin named Mary. She was engaged to Joseph from the family of King David.

Good News Translation
He had a message for a young woman promised in marriage to a man named Joseph, who was a descendant of King David. Her name was Mary.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
to a virgin engaged to a man named Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin's name was Mary.

International Standard Version
to a virgin engaged to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin's name was Mary.

NET Bible
to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, a descendant of David, and the virgin's name was Mary.

New Heart English Bible
to a virgin pledged to be married to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin's name was Mary.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
To a virgin who was engaged to a man from the house of David, whose name was Yoseph, and the name of the virgin was Maryam.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The angel went to a virgin promised in marriage to a descendant of David named Joseph. The virgin's name was Mary.

New American Standard 1977
to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the descendants of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary.

King James 2000 Bible
To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

American King James Version
To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

American Standard Version
to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

Darby Bible Translation
to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name [was] Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name [was] Mary.

English Revised Version
to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

Weymouth New Testament
to a maiden betrothed to a man of the name of Joseph, a descendant of David. The maiden's name was Mary.

World English Bible
to a virgin pledged to be married to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin's name was Mary.

Young's Literal Translation
to a virgin, betrothed to a man, whose name is Joseph, of the house of David, and the name of the virgin is Mary.

Sooo nope your simply wrong again Mary was engaged to be married and was not married as you claim.

  • the angel came in unto her - The Angel came into her without her permission
WRONG!

This comment is simply foolishness. Since when does an angel of God need permission to give someone a message from God?
  • when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying - This frightened Mary. One aspect of rape is to instill fear into the victim
WRONG!

I guess you would be frightened if someone from Heaven stood before you when you have been denying God all these years. Not Mary she was strenthened to speak with the Angel once she knew she had God's blessing v28-30
  • thou shalt conceive in thy womb - This was an edict, not a request
WRONG!

This was a blessing from God among all women. v28 Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women; v30 Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. Context matters and here you are taking scripture out of context again :)
  • How shall this be, seeing I know not a man - Mary is confused as well as frightened
In this section of the chapter, Mary was simply asking how will this happen as she was a virgin.
  • The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee - Another edict, this time putting even more pressure on since the Holy Ghost is 1/3 God
WRONG!

Mary was a follower of God and knew she had God's blessing v28-30 and that God would look after her.
This is actually a fullfilled prophecy to ISREAL 100's of hears earlier of the coming Messiah ISAIAH 7:14
  • the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee - Modern rapists use chloroform.
WRONG!

It was according to Mary's consent. 38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her. You really do err not knowing the scriptures friend because you do not know God
  • Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. Threatened, frightened, confused, overwhelmed, Mary finally accedes
WRONG!

Where does it say in the scriptures Mary was threatened, overwelmed and Mary finally accedes? This is your foolishness added into the scriptures trying to make them say things they are not. Shame on you.
  • And the angel departed from her. Only then does the angel leave her
What? :confused:. My friend your only showing your lack of understanding of the scriptures and your ignorance of Gods' Word because you do not know God

There you go hope this helps....

Your welcome :)
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Oh, that's right. Bahai's just do officially what Christians do on there own - Pick and Choose what parts of scripture to believe and what parts of scripture to disregard. That sure makes it easy to justify pretty much anything - except rational thought.
I do not disregard the scripture; I just interpret it differently than YOU and some Christians....

I do not have to believe in original sin because that is not even IN the Bible. It is a false doctrine of the Church. As sooda pointed out, Jews don't believe in original sin and neither do Muslims.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Super rationalization. Everyone, except Our Guy, probably got it wrong. Only Our Guy got everything right.

Straw man. All the Manifestations of God got it right because they were all infallible, but only Baha’u’llah wrote it down in His own pen.
As I've said many, many times, Bahai is just another in a long string of nonsense religions. No different.

Then why bother talking to me about it?
You pick and choose just as any religious believer picks and chooses. You are no different than any other person posting in these threads. You all believe your stuff and denigrate and disregard all other's stuff.

Give me one good reason that makes logical sense why I should not pick and choose what to believe about the other religious beliefs.

I disregard some of what is in the older religious because it has been corrupted by man over time. I do not denigrate any religion.

I believe the Baha’i Faith is the current religion of God and thus it is the religion God wants everyone to turn to since the older religions have for the most part been corrupted.

“This is the Day when the loved ones of God should keep their eyes directed towards His Manifestation, and fasten them upon whatsoever that Manifestation may be pleased to reveal. Certain traditions of bygone ages rest on no foundations whatever, while the notions entertained by past generations, and which they have recorded in their books, have, for the most part, been influenced by the desires of a corrupt inclination. Thou dost witness how most of the commentaries and interpretations of the words of God, now current amongst men, are devoid of truth. Their falsity hath, in some cases, been exposed when 172 the intervening veils were rent asunder. They themselves have acknowledged their failure in apprehending the meaning of any of the words of God.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 171-172

Besides that, the older religions do not have the remedy that humanity needs in this new age.

“The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger on the pulse of mankind. He perceiveth the disease, and prescribeth, in His unerring wisdom, the remedy. Every age hath its own problem, and every soul its particular aspiration. The remedy the world needeth in its present-day afflictions can never be the same as that which a subsequent age may require.Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in, and center your deliberations on its exigencies and requirements.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 213
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
You really should listen to yourself and get a grip on your beliefs.

How do you know it's true? Because Baha’u’llah said it is true.
How do you know what Baha’u’llah says is true? Because Baha’u’llah is the Messenger from God.
How do you know Baha’u’llah is the Messenger from God? Because Baha’u’llah said he was the Messenger from God.
-or, in your own words...
"because Baha’u’llah CLAIMED to be the Comforter and the Spirit of Truth in His Writings"

Have you completely lost all sense of skepticism? That's what cults do to people, they make it impossible to question their beliefs.
Another straw man. I am getting tired of this repetitive misrepresentation of my position.

I do not believe that Baha’u’llah was a Messenger of God because Baha’u’llah said he was the Messenger from God. I believe Baha’u’llah was a Messenger of God because of the evidence that supports His claim.

I was talking about something specific, and you turned it into something general. I was talking about how we know Baha’u’llah was the Comforter and the Spirit of Truth that Jesus referenced in John. We know Jesus was referencing Baha’u’llah because Baha’u’llah CLAIMED to be the Comforter and the Spirit of Truth in His Writings. Muhammad did not make that claim.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
You have stated the all religious writings except those from Baha’u’llah were written by fallible men. Now you want to point to these writings and show they made precise prophecies.
They are precise even though the men were fallible. That is not contradictory.
Are you really that confused internally about what you do and what you do not believe?
I am not confused at all.
Do you really think I am going to look through all events that took place from 1844 - 1892 and look at geographical locations that are in OT prophecies to try to figure out what you are going on about?
You would not have to do that because William Sears already did it when he matched up the prophecies with the events and geographical locations and it is in his book.
Do you really think I am going to read a book by a fallible Bahai adherent when I won't even bother to read all your Ballulah cut and paste walls? Really?
Do you really think I care what you do? I was just explaining where the information can be found, IF anyone is interested in knowing how those prophecies were fulfilled.
 
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