ecco
Veteran Member
Somehow you don't think that the people who wrote your silly stories are biased. Somehow you don't realize that they were pushing an agenda, to sell their version of God to the masses.
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So What Happened To All The Changes, Tribulations, And Woe Jesus Had Promised?
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
Somehow you don't think that the people who wrote your silly stories are biased. Somehow you don't realize that they were pushing an agenda, to sell their version of God to the masses.
ecco
Veteran Member
Lack of understanding of scripture? Really? It is simplified to where an unquestioning five-year-old can understand Genesis. You should know that.
The problems only arise when the silliness of it all gets questioned. Then the believer has to scramble and make nonsense accusations like "you don't know God".
If I would believe scripture I would know that your God knew A&E would succumb to the serpent. Didn't you ever figure that out?
See above.
sooda
Veteran Member
As posted earlier you were posted rational responses you simply do not understand them because you do not know God.
What is there to address? He did not trick anyone. Your lack of understanding and ignorance is showing because you do not know God or his Word.
What is there to address? I did not say every historian is biased I said that history outside of biblical history can be biased depending on who is writing it and whos side of the coin they follow. All I am hearing from you are empty claims that have no truth in them.
Why is there to address? These are simply your words showing your lack of understanding of the scriptures and your ignorance of Gods' Word because you do not know God.
What is there to address? This is something you talk about but do not pratice. This is therefore a hypacritical statement which only shows your ignorance of Gods' Word because you do not know God.
What is there to address? These are simply your words denying God's Word that only shows your ignorance of Gods' Word because you do not know God. Yep there is nothing to address. Please let me know when you wish to have an intelligent conversation
PS...
I see you didn't address this: Yaaawwwnzzz....Some are always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth *2 Timothy 3:7 because they profess themselves wise only to become fools *Romans 1:22 According to the scriptures the fool says in his heart there is no God *Psalms 14:1. So who are you to say there is no God?
They are morality tales not history..
sooda
Veteran Member
Aesop's Fables were written by a Greek slave around the same time.. 700 BC and they too are morality tales. So, if I say "the boy who cried wolf".. you instantly know the lesson intended.
ecco
Veteran Member
I see you didn't address this: Yaaawwwnzzz....
Therein lies your problem. You think repeatedly copying and pasting scripture is the same as learning and coming to a knowledge of the truth. It isn't. It's clear you never questioned anything written in Genesis. That's understandable.
My experience shows that literal fundamentalists had scripture drummed into their heads since before they could walk, so they do have somewhat of an excuse.
sooda
Veteran Member
I agree.. IMO its important to question.. Even Jacob "wrestled with God".
ecco
Veteran Member
If God didn't blame A&E then why did He say:
16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life;
17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life;
It sure sounds like He's punishing them (and all their descendants) for their transgressions.
Don't you understand your own Bible?
ecco
Veteran Member
You stated earlier that your God is all-knowing. You have Free Will. A&E had Free Will. You make your decisions based on your sense of morality that you have developed over the years. At the time of the serpent/tree, A&E only had the morality God instilled into them at their creation. All-knowing God knew what their decision would be. He did not force them. But He knew.
Don't you even understand your own scripture and beliefs?
ecco
Veteran Member
Jesus is 1/3 of God. Jesus' appearance on earth was the result of the Holy Ghost (another 1/3 of God) raping and impregnating a young virgin.
Also, your Bible states that the sons of God came to earth and had sex with human females. Since God had these other sons, Jesus could not have been His "only begotten son".
Don't you know these things are written in your Bible? Don't you understand them?
ecco
Veteran Member
Are you referring to this part of Post #117?
6, And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7, And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repents me that I have made them.
Yeah. That's what I said.:
God horrifically killed all humans except eight. Men, women, children, fetuses, embryos.
Why? Because the man He made "repented" Him. People got bad because God punished A&E for His own failings and then God showing His mercy(?) got rid of all of them.
It's very telling that God later realized that He screwed up again because, after the genocidal flood, He told Noah:
Don't you know these basic things from your own scripture?
Yes and that is the way it has always been.
Show in history, where a Messenger fulfilled the signs, as seen and as expected by those that await.
Regards Tony
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Yes, that refers to the Bible.
Baha’u’llah was not a fallible man. He was a Manifestation of God so He was infallible.
Shoghi Effendi was a fallible man, but he was entrusted to interpret Baha’u’llah’s Writings by virtue of the Covenant of Baha’u’llah.
I take the Bible with a grain of salt, I do not believe it the same way I believe what Baha’u’llah wrote. I thought we had been down this road before.
From Letters Written on Behalf of the Guardian:
When 'Abdu'l-Bahá states we believe what is in the Bible, He means in substance. Not that we believe every word of it to be taken literally or that every word is the authentic saying of the Prophet.
(11 February 1944 to an individual believer)
We cannot be sure of the authenticity of any of the phrases in the Old or the New Testament. What we can be sure of is when such references or words are cited or quoted in either the Quran or the Bahá'í writings.
(4 July 1947 to an individual believer)
From letters written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice:
In studying the Bible Bahá'ís must bear two principles in mind. The first is that many passages in Sacred Scriptures are intended to be taken metaphorically, not literally, and some of the paradoxes and apparent contradictions which appear are intended to indicate this. The second is the fact that the text of the early Scriptures, such as the Bible, is not wholly authentic.
(28 May 1984 to an individual believer)
The Bahá'ís believe that God's Revelation is under His care and protection and that the essence, or essential elements, of what His Manifestations intended to convey has been recorded and preserved in Their Holy Books. However, as the sayings of the ancient Prophets were written down some time later, we cannot categorically state, as we do in the case of the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh, that the words and phrases attributed to Them are Their exact words
(9 August 1984 to an individual believer)
The Bible
I know I have it right, if I go strictly by what Bahaullah wrote, because that is as close to the Word of God as humanity can get. In fact, it is the SAME as if God said it Himself. Belief in Divine unity means that the Will of the Manifestations of God are exactly the same as the Will of God.
“The essence of belief in Divine unity consisteth in regarding Him Who is the Manifestation of God and Him Who is the invisible, the inaccessible, the unknowable Essence as one and the same. By this is meant that whatever pertaineth to the former, all His acts and doings, whatever He ordaineth or forbiddeth, should be considered, in all their aspects, and under all circumstances, and without any reservation, as identical with the Will of God Himself. This is the loftiest station to which a true believer in the unity of God can ever hope to attain. Blessed is the man that reacheth this station, and is of them that are steadfast in their belief.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 167
I consider what Abdu’l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi wrote to be “authoritative” but it is not the Will of God or the Word of God. When Bahaullah said that what Abdul-Baha says is “the very truth” He just mean it is true, but it is subject to error, Imo. Some other Baha’is might disagree with me though.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
There is no contradiction between what I said and what Tony said. The Manifestations of God all have a twofold station. The first station is the return of the Spirit of God and in that sense they are all one Spirit that returns in every age; the second station is the station of distinction that pertains to the world of creation, and to the limitations thereof.
“The Bearers of the Trust of God are made manifest unto the peoples of the earth as the Exponents of a new Cause and the Revealers of a new Message. Inasmuch as these Birds of the celestial Throne are all sent down from the heaven of the Will of God, and as they all arise to proclaim His irresistible Faith, they, therefore, are regarded as one soul and the same person. For they all drink from the one Cup of the love of God, and all partake of the fruit of the same Tree of Oneness.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 50
They only differ in their mission and their physical bodies and time of appearance.
“These Manifestations of God have each a twofold station. One is the station of pure abstraction and essential unity. In this respect, if thou callest them all by one name, and dost ascribe to them the same attributes, thou hast not erred from the truth. Even as He hath revealed: “No distinction do We make between any of His Messengers.” For they, one and all, summon the people of the earth to acknowledge the unity of God, and herald unto them the Kawthar of an infinite grace and bounty. They are all invested with the robe of prophethood, and are honored with the mantle of glory. Thus hath Muḥammad, the Point of the Qur’án, revealed: “I am all the Prophets.” Likewise, He saith: “I am the first Adam, Noah, Moses, and Jesus.” Gleanings, pp. 50-51
In their first station of essential unity......
“It is clear and evident to thee that all the Prophets are the Temples of the Cause of God, Who have appeared clothed in divers attire. If thou wilt observe with discriminating eyes, thou wilt behold Them all abiding in the same tabernacle, soaring in the same heaven, seated upon the same throne, uttering the same speech, and proclaiming the same Faith. Such is the unity of those Essences of Being, those Luminaries of infinite and immeasurable splendor! Wherefore, should one of these Manifestations of Holiness proclaim saying: “I am the return of all the Prophets,” He, verily, speaketh the truth. In like manner, in every subsequent Revelation, the return of the former Revelation is a fact, the truth of which is firmly established….” Gleanings, p. 52
Their second station is the station of distinction....
“The other station is the station of distinction, and pertaineth to the world of creation, and to the limitations thereof. In this respect, each Manifestation of God hath a distinct individuality, a definitely prescribed mission, a predestined revelation, and specially designated limitations. Each one of them is known by a different name, is characterized by a special attribute, fulfils a definite mission, and is entrusted with a particular Revelation. Even as He saith: “Some of the Apostles We have caused to excel the others. To some God hath spoken, some He hath raised and exalted. And to Jesus, Son of Mary, We gave manifest signs, and We strengthened Him with the Holy Spirit.” Gleanings, p. 52
“It is because of this difference in their station and mission that the words and utterances flowing from these Well Springs of Divine knowledge appear to diverge and differ. Otherwise, in the eyes of them that are initiated into the mysteries of Divine wisdom, all their utterances are, in reality, but the expressions of one Truth. As most of the people have failed to appreciate those stations to which We have referred, they, therefore, feel perplexed and dismayed at the varying utterances pronounced by Manifestations that are essentially one and the same.” Gleanings, p. 53
Viewed in the light of their first station, their station of essential unity, they are the Voice of God...
“By virtue of this station they have claimed for themselves the Voice of Divinity and the like, whilst by virtue of their station of Messengership, they have declared themselves the Messengers of God. In every instance they have voiced an utterance that would conform to the requirements of the occasion, and have ascribed all these declarations to Themselves, declarations ranging from the realm of Divine Revelation to the realm of creation, and from the domain of Divinity even unto the domain of earthly existence.” Gleanings, pp. 55-56
Viewed in the light of their second station, they are servants of God.
“Viewed in the light of their second station—the station of distinction, differentiation, temporal limitations, characteristics and standards—they manifest absolute servitude, utter destitution, and complete self-effacement. Even as He saith: “I am the servant of God. I am but a man like you.” Gleanings, pp. 53-54
That is because we never discussed it before.
We know it was referencing Baha’u’llah because Baha’u’llah CLAIMED to be the Comforter and the Spirit of Truth in His Writings. Muhammad did not make such a claim to be the return of Christ, which is what the Comforter and Spirit of Truth are.
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for hedwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
John 16:12-13 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Baha’u’llah clearly refers to Himself as the Comforter and the Spirit of Truth who Jesus promised to send from the Father in these passages:
“Give ear unto that which the Dove of Eternity warbleth upon the twigs of the Divine Lote-Tree: O peoples of the earth! We sent forth him who was named John to baptize you with water, that your bodies might be cleansed for the appearance of the Messiah. He, in turn, purified you with the fire of love and the water of the spirit in anticipation of these Days whereon the All-Merciful hath purposed to cleanse you with the water of life at the hands of His loving providence. This is the Father foretold by Isaiah, and the Comforter concerning Whom the Spirit had covenanted with you. Open your eyes, O concourse of bishops, that ye may behold your Lord seated upon the Throne of might and glory.” The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 63
“O kings of Christendom! Heard ye not the saying of Jesus, the Spirit of God, "I go away, and come again unto you"? 2 Wherefore, then, did ye fail, when He did come again unto you in the clouds of heaven, to draw nigh unto Him, that ye might behold His face, and be of them that attained His Presence? In another passage He saith: "When He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth." 3 And yet behold how, when He did bring the truth, ye refused to turn your faces towards Him, and persisted in disporting yourselves with your pastimes and fancies. Ye welcomed Him not, neither did ye seek His Presence, that ye might hear the verses of God from His own mouth, and partake of the manifold wisdom of the Almighty, the All-Glorious, the All-Wise.” The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 191
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, we have not been down this road before. The road we went down was about the prophecies that Baha’u’llah MADE, what Baha’u’llah predicted would happen in the future. The prophecies for the return of Christ which is also the Messiah) are what is recorded in the OT and the NT. They were either fulfilled or not. That is easy to prove by looking at events that took place from 1844 - 1892 and by looking at geographical locations that are in OT prophecies.
That has been proven and it is all in this book: Thief in the Night by William Sears
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
YawwwnZZzz
..........Not really your leaving out context again. It was because of God's mercy that he put an end to the cruelties of all those who were practicing cruelty in the time of the flood because they were practicing evil and cruelty against each other...
Genesis 6:5-7
5, And GOD SAW THAT THE WICKEDNESS OF MAN WAS GREAT IN THE EARTH, AND THAT EVERY IMAGINATION OF HIS HEART WAS ONLY EVIL CONTINUALLY.
6, And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7, And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repents me that I have made them.
They did not listen and did not obey God's Word. Nothing has changed today. God is warning all mankind because he is not willing that anyone should perish but that all should come to repentance and be saved *2 Peter 3:9-13. Those who do not listen to God's warnings today, just like the those before the flood and those of Sodom and Gommorah of yesterday will reap the consequnces of their own actions. God is not willing that any should perish and is a God of mercy to all those who believe and follow his Word but to all those who deny Gods' Word our God will be a fiery furnace with all delusion of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved and for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. It doesn't have to be that way though. We all choose our path and who we follow.
You really do not understand God's Word now do you..
Yep gotta love a God of mercy
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Now I only feel sorry for you as you really are confused. You do not understand the scriptures at all do you or what they are teaching. It seems the scriptures are fulfilled in you and that you have been given over to strong delusions that you should believe lies because you have never received the love of the truth that you might be saved *2 Thessalonians 2:10-12.
You really do not understand God's Word now do you.
Gotta love the truth of God's Word and here they are fulfilled in you this very day
.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Perhaps you should read the posts and the scriptures you are quoting from. Ignoring God's Word does not make it dissappear.
You really do not understand God's Word my friend do you
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3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Nope there in lies your problem your simply ignoring the content of the posts and the scripture shared with you that show why your in error and repeating yourself. Ignoring God's Word does not make it dissappear. You do not know me or my experience in life and none of what you have shared has any truth in it.
You really do not God my friend do you
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3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Yet here you still are simply sharing your own words showing your lack of understanding of the scriptures and your ignorance of Gods' Word because you do not know God.