Question about prayer

[Jake S]

I have no idea where to put this question but here goes....

I've been praying for years without any answers that I as a human being would recognize.

My question is simply, if only God knows the logic about how prayer and answering prayer works, how can we begin to position ourselves in this life?

I always get a response like "He is answering your prayers but in mysterious ways".

But what good is that if only God knows the mystery?

No matter what I question there is always an answer from someone in the Church. One pet peeve of mine is someone never admitting that something might not happen.

It is 100% possible for someone to pray and pray and pray, and see no HUMAN answers to the prayers.

Yet the response from someone in the church is "It's just in God's timing".

I wish they would say "You know what, you'right. You may never see an answer".

 

[Harel13]

Maybe the point is to get you to be more open-minded about things?
Why God chooses to work in mysterious ways ties into free-will.

 

[Jake S]

Maybe the point is to get you to be more open-minded about things?
Why God chooses to work in mysterious ways ties into free-will.

The problem using that method is I can make myself think anything. But who's right?

Not debating just trying to understand this.

Free will assumes my action gets the same result as someone else. So in many areas I actually don't have free will. Because my actions don't get the same results as someone else who took those same free will actions.

So if i'm truly stuck in a rut, no free will actions working, and no prayers being answered, do I just be content with being miserable?

I just feel like people make themselves feel like things that are just self fulfilling prophecies.

 

[Windwalker]

Prayer has to do with the person praying. Does it get you to focus on God? Is it about getting answers, or about connecting with God? Maybe try praying without asking for stuff. Don't let the focus be about you. After all, is love about what you can get, or who you are? Maybe at that point, your prayer is answered.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Maybe it is the question in your prayer that is the reason you do not see the answer?
If you, for example, pray for a sign of how to understand the spiritual practice or it is about how to reduce the attachments to something you "need" in life, the answer will not just pop up in front of you, but could, for example, come as an intuitive part of your practice.

Asking a God "I want this" or Can you fix this for me" does not work You must do the hard work you self, where God is there to guide you on the path

 

[Jake S]

Prayer has to do with the person praying. Does it get you to focus on God? Is it about getting answers, or about connecting with God? Maybe try praying without asking for stuff. Don't let the focus be about you. After all, is love about what you can get, or who you are?

Fair enough. I am trying to be more specific with my prayers. And nearly all of my prayers are really just requests to give me a hint of a direction.

Maybe it is the question in your prayer that is the reason you do not see the answer?
If you, for example, pray for a sign of how to understand the spiritual practice or it is about how to reduce the attachments to something you "need" in life, the answer will not just pop up in front of you, but could, for example, come as an intuitive part of your practice.

Asking a God "I want this" or Can you fix this for me" does not work You must do the hard work you self, where God is there to guide you on the path

Fair enough. When I pray the prayer is specific to finding a hint of direction.

I am a single guy, with absolutely no clue on the next step in my life. I am cool with free will and acting, but what action do I take?

What if someone takes free will actions their entire life and nothing changes their life. Isn't that possible for me too?

I just want someone to admit that things could be the same forever regardless of actions I take.

That's a real possibility.

So yes, I need to have faith. But at what point do you throw in the towel?

 

[Harel13]

Free will assumes my action gets the same result as someone else. So in many areas I actually don't have free will. Because my actions don't get the same results as someone else who took those same free will actions.

So if i'm truly stuck in a rut, no free will actions working, and no prayers being answered, do I just be content with being miserable?

I'm not sure what what other people do has to do with your own actions. Free will, as a religiously-based concept, means that you have the choice to do whatever you want - either good or evil. Now, depending to what religion you adhere to, either option could mean different things.

As for prayer, every religion (I assume) would teach you how to be open-minded about God's ways, and ways of communication with you as an individual.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Fair enough. I am trying to be more specific with my prayers. And nearly all of my prayers are really just requests to give me a hint of a direction.


Fair enough. When I pray the prayer is specific to finding a hint of direction.

I am a single guy, with absolutely no clue on the next step in my life. I am cool with free will and acting, but what action do I take?

What if someone takes free will actions their entire life and nothing changes their life. Isn't that possible for me too?

I just want someone to admit that things could be the same forever regardless of actions I take.

That's a real possibility.

So yes, I need to have faith. But at what point do you throw in the towel?

Before I had a girlfriend I had been actively searching for years because I did not want to be alone for the rest of my life. But it comes to a point where I gave up, and said out loud, "I give up the search for a woman to be a part of my life" Two weeks later I met the woman who is today my fanceè. So I would say stop the search and let nature give it to you freely because if you try forcing something to happen, nature will reject your wishes

Things happen for a reason in life, so if you instead of trying to make things happen the way you "want" them to happen. Just accept what comes your way and be happy, because as soon you let go of the wanting and needing. things will go your way anyway.

 

[Jake S]

I'm not sure what what other people do has to do with your own actions. Free will, as a religiously-based concept, means that you have the choice to do whatever you want - either good or evil. Now, depending to what religion you adhere to, either option could mean different things.

As for prayer, every religion (I assume) would teach you how to be open-minded about God's ways, and ways of communication with you as an individual.

I guess my point is, it isn't free will if everyone gets different results from the same actions.

I have a choice to do whatever I want, but it's not guaranteed to give me the same results as someone else. So then what good is it?

At that point it's just hoping something will work out.

Before I had a girlfriend I had been actively searching for years because I did not want to be alone for the rest of my life. But it comes to a point where I gave up, and said out loud, "I give up the search for a woman to be a part of my life" Two weeks later I met the woman who is today my fanceè. So I would say stop the search and let nature give it to you freely because if you try forcing something to happen, nature will reject your wishes

Things happen for a reason in life, so if you instead of trying to make things happen the way you "want" them to happen. Just accept what comes your way and be happy, because as soon you let go of the wanting and needing. things will go your way anyway.

This is great advice thank you. That's basically my issue.

But isn't that semantics? "I will only do this for you if you stop thinking about it". That seems petty to me. Either someone wants to help me or they don't.

I just feel like what you describe is more luck than it is anything. Like I say, some people go their whole life without any answers. For some people they get an answer sooner than later. So to me, there isn't a good recipe card. It's just, throw something out there and see if it works. But if I'm doing that my entire life, it gets old and I have less confidence.

 

[Harel13]

I guess my point is, it isn't free will if everyone gets different results from the same actions.

Oh. Well, sure it is. Think about it this way: if everyone was exactly the same, and every action resulted in the same way, then technically we'd be robots, wouldn't we?

I think it's more a point of: Despite the different, unexpected results, you keep striving to do the right thing.
For example: giving charity. Sometimes charity will help a poor person turn his life around. Sometimes, however, that person will squander away the money. Does that mean charity is bad? No, charity in itself is good. It may not always work out in the best way, but that doesn't mean you should stop giving charity.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I guess my point is, it isn't free will if everyone gets different results from the same actions.

I have a choice to do whatever I want, but it's not guaranteed to give me the same results as someone else. So then what good is it?

At that point it's just hoping something will work out.


This is great advice thank you. That's basically my issue.

But isn't that semantics? "I will only do this for you if you stop thinking about it". That seems petty to me. Either someone wants to help me or they don't.

I just feel like what you describe is more luck than it is anything. Like I say, some people go their whole life without any answers. For some people they get an answer sooner than later. So to me, there isn't a good recipe card. It's just, throw something out there and see if it works. But if I'm doing that my entire life, it gets old and I have less confidence.

Very welcome

In my experience life does not give luck or unlucky, But if we understand life and that it is not a God who punishes you so you feel lonely or that you do not experience luck.
But it is our own actions, speech, and thoughts that create our experiences in the moment, then we can understand that if we get attached to what we do not have, we will suffer. and we think negative about our life, then, yes we will experience more negative than positive.
So instead of blaming a God for not "giving us what we want" we, ourselves must create the situation that can lead toward what we do seek. A God only gives the teaching of how to realize the teaching, then it is up to ur own effort to use the teaching to become a better human being, and thereby experience more freedom and happiness in life.

 

[sun rise]

Fair enough. When I pray the prayer is specific to finding a hint of direction.

If you are answered, how will you know that there was an answer assuming there is one?

 

[Jake S]

My whole premise is, I'm only a human being. Yet I'm supposed to just be ok with things I don't know about. But I

If you are answered, how will you know that there was an answer assuming there is one?

That's actually part of the point I'm making. Anyone can make themselves believe anything. I can say the wind that swept the leaf today was from God and meant something.

Nobody knows for sure. So all I have is my own thinking and faith.

At some point along the way there has to be a sign that is more obvious than others. Knowing how to listen to the 'spirit' if you will.

Personally, I'm simply looking at this as a human on a 30,000 ft view. All I know is what I know.

So I think it's somewhat unfair to throw me into a lion's den and have to navigate through my own thinking of what I think is a sign or isn't a sign.

I just think people make themselves believe what seems comforting or that seems to be the right timing. But again, who knows if it's a real sign or just something random.

 

[PureX]

I have no idea where to put this question but here goes....

I've been praying for years without any answers that I as a human being would recognize.

My question is simply, if only God knows the logic about how prayer and answering prayer works, how can we begin to position ourselves in this life?

I always get a response like "He is answering your prayers but in mysterious ways".

But what good is that if only God knows the mystery?

No matter what I question there is always an answer from someone in the Church. One pet peeve of mine is someone never admitting that something might not happen.

It is 100% possible for someone to pray and pray and pray, and see no HUMAN answers to the prayers.

Yet the response from someone in the church is "It's just in God's timing".

I wish they would say "You know what, you'right. You may never see an answer".

People are idiots. And that includes you and me. Sorry, but that's just the way it is.

So here's what I know about prayer: it's not for "God's ears", it's for ours. We pray not because God needs or wants to hear from us, but because we need to clarify and express the state of our spiritual being to someone or to something greater than ourselves. We pray in gratitude because we need to remind ourselves to be grateful, or because we are feeling grateful and we need to express it to the rest of the universe. We pray when we're in need, and afraid, because we don't know what else to do, or because we have no control over the events that are effecting us, and that frightens us. We pray for answers to questions that we hope will tell us what to think, and what to believe, and what to do, because we're feeling confused, and ignorant, and 'stuck'. ... On and on it goes. The prayers are always about and for us, not "God".

And that's OK, because that's what prayer is for. That's how it works. It's not about getting 'answers' from God, or getting prizes and rewards from God. It's about finding something that we're looking for, and in need of, within ourselves, by expressing our thoughts and feelings out loud (so to speak) to someone/something outside of ourselves. It's about trying to focus that internal dialogue, and then as a result, hopefully, our external actions.

Prayer is not a call for "magic". It's a form of self-help.

 

[shmogie]

I have no idea where to put this question but here goes....

I've been praying for years without any answers that I as a human being would recognize.

My question is simply, if only God knows the logic about how prayer and answering prayer works, how can we begin to position ourselves in this life?

I always get a response like "He is answering your prayers but in mysterious ways".

But what good is that if only God knows the mystery?

No matter what I question there is always an answer from someone in the Church. One pet peeve of mine is someone never admitting that something might not happen.

It is 100% possible for someone to pray and pray and pray, and see no HUMAN answers to the prayers.

Yet the response from someone in the church is "It's just in God's timing".

I wish they would say "You know what, you'right. You may never see an answer".

As the saying goes, God answers every prayer, many times the answer is no. You ask, and leave it in God's hands.

If it is something important to you, do not stop asking.

You are right, you may not have an answer that you can discern. But, regardless, you know that in response, God has done what is best for you, whether you know it, or not.

 

[Harel13]

So I think it's somewhat unfair to throw me into a lion's den and have to navigate through my own thinking of what I think is a sign or isn't a sign.

Sounds like prayer isn't your only issue, or maybe not even your main issue.

 

[Jake S]

As the saying goes, God answers every prayer, many times the answer is no. You ask, and leave it in God's hands.

If it is something important to you, do not stop asking.

You are right, you may not have an answer that you can discern. But, regardless, you know that in response, God has done what is best for you, whether you know it, or not.

But then that means there's no free will. The point I'm trying to make is, while I'm on this earth, if things don't make sense to me as a human being, why even try to take any actions? On one hand I'm supposed to have faith that everything is happening for a reason. But at the end of the day I'm still a human with very limited knowledge of anything.

 

[Jake S]

Sounds like prayer isn't your only issue, or maybe not even your main issue.

I just want someone to admit that doing all of the right things in life to better yourself can end up not working at all. In other words, if there's no guarantee of anything, why do anything? It's like we're all just throwing stuff out there to see what sticks. Bad people are happy, and a lot of good people aren't. I don't see how that gives me confidence or an incentive to do the right things in life. It truly does seem like it's more luck than anything else. If God only knows what is 'right' for me that's great. But the problem is I don't see that. So as a human on this earth, without any other knowledge of anything, that creates a conflict. It's like this life isn't really for me then it's for God. So let's just skip right to heaven then.

 

[shmogie]

But then that means there's no free will. The point I'm trying to make is, while I'm on this earth, if things don't make sense to me as a human being, why even try to take any actions? On one hand I'm supposed to have faith that everything is happening for a reason. But at the end of the day I'm still a human with very limited knowledge of anything.

Of course their is free will. God deciding to answer a prayer, or not, is about His free will, not yours.

No, everything that occurs is not for a reason. When an airliner falls out of the sky and kills 200 people, God hasn't a reason for it. He didn't do it. It most likely is not part of a great plan that He has.

I am not sure what you mean by " doesn't make sense to me as a human being " and "take action" please clarify.

 

[Harel13]

I just want someone to admit that doing all of the right things in life to better yourself can end up not working at all

What exactly are your expectations when doing "right things"? Define "not working" please.