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Man made traditions from the Church or the Word of God - Who do you believe and follow?

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
We are nowhere in the canon commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day, which means nobody can show what you are asking.

Hi Brick nice to meet you. Absolutely! That is why the questions were asked. If there is no scripture then for these teachings and traditions who are we either knowingly or unknowingly following if this is a practice based on the teachings and traditions of men that break God's 4th commandment *Matthew 15:3-9?
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
God is worshipped by improving one's consciousness. AGAPE. Watch division of soul and spirit.

Hi leov, good post. Do we follow and love God by believing and following his Word of not believing and following his Word *John 14:15; John 15:10?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
"Are Christians under obligation to keep a weekly sabbath day?

Ex. 31:16, 17: “The sons of Israel must keep the sabbath, so as to carry out the sabbath during their generations. It is a covenant to time indefinite [“a perpetual covenant,” RS]. Between me and the sons of Israel it is a sign to time indefinite.” (Notice that sabbath observance was a sign between Jehovah and Israel; this would not be the case if everyone else were also obligated to keep the Sabbath. The Hebrew word rendered “perpetual” in RS is ‛oh·lamʹ, which basically means a period of time that, from the standpoint of the present, is indefinite or hidden from sight but of long duration. That can mean forever, but not necessarily so. At Numbers 25:13 the same Hebrew word is applied to the priesthood, which later ended, according to Hebrews 7:12.)

Rom. 10:4: “Christ is the end of the Law, so that everyone exercising faith may have righteousness.” (Sabbath keeping was a part of that Law. God used Christ to bring that Law to its end. Our having a righteous standing with God depends on faith in Christ, not on keeping a weekly sabbath.) (Also Galatians 4:9-11; Ephesians 2:13-16)

Col. 2:13-16: “[God] kindly forgave us all our trespasses and blotted out the handwritten document against us, which consisted of decrees and which was in opposition to us . . . Therefore let no man judge you in eating and drinking or in respect of a festival or of an observance of the new moon or of a sabbath.” (If a person was under the Mosaic Law and was judged guilty of profaning the Sabbath, he was to be stoned to death by the whole congregation, according to Exodus 31:14 and Numbers 15:32-35. Many who argue for sabbath keeping have reason to be glad that we are not under that Law. As shown in the scripture here quoted, an approved standing with God no longer requires observance of the sabbath requirement given to Israel.)"

Sabbath — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is why Christians are not under obligation to keep a weekly Sabbath......
 
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URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Just because Jesus says the Sabbath was made for man doesn't mean it is meaningless.
In the Old Testament it becomes clear how important the Sabbath is.
Exodus 31:15
Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

I find the Constitution of the Mosaic Law ended with Jesus - Romans 10:4
Plus, Jewish Sabbath was Saturday.
Sunday was chosen by Constantine to give farmers a rest day.
Corrupted 'Christendom' thus chose Sunday as a rest day.
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Hi robocop thanks brother. I thought it may be interesting for some as we seem to be fed a lot of things from church that are not biblical and are man made traditions and teachings. In this case it is one that breaks God's 4th commandment which is sin * James 2:10-11; Matthew 15:3-9
I think it's just that Jesus fulfilled the law of Moses, so we take our Sabbath by honoring Him since He is the law.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Hi Brick nice to meet you. Absolutely! That is why the questions were asked. If there is no scripture then for these teachings and traditions who are we either knowingly or unknowingly following if this is a practice based on the teachings and traditions of men that break God's 4th commandment *Matthew 15:3-9?
Jesus is speaking to some Jews in this story, but its important to step out of the one liners and look his overall rejection of discipleship methods. They're talking to him about the chain of teaching. He's simply adding to his dislike of their concept of discipleship, and that seems to be why he is pointing out something where they have made errors. Its their methods that he is going after not the specific choices which concern him. The way I see it: Jesus is talking to some sect of Pharisees, and he's telling them that they have discipleship upside-down. To make his point is baptized by someone of lesser status than himself -- John the Baptist. In other words he turns the discipleship pyramid on its head. He is opposing Pharisee basic time-honored methods wherein a master takes on a student and teaches that student everything that they themselves have learned -- carefully and intensively. They do things the way that you and I would intuitively expect, but Jesus rejects this.

Jesus tells his disciples plainly that he won't be teaching them everything that they need to know. Jesus selects the worst men to be his disciples and men who don't get along with each other. He is criticized for sitting with tax collectors and people who don't keep kosher. His parables indicate you can never tell who is wheat and who is weed. He hides his identity and won't attract the best people to himself. He receives children as the greatest in the kingdom, but its clear in the Torah that they are not as valuable as adults, don't have wisdom like adults, have foolishness in their hearts. All of this is obvious, but he rejects it.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
The challenge I am putting up here in this OP is for anyone to show even one scripture that says God's 4th Commandment of the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11) which was spoken and written by God himself to his people, has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday (or the first day of the week) as a Holy day.

Before anything else let us start with Exodus 20:1-2
It will tell us to whom God gave these ten commandments
which includes the Sabbath

Exodus 20:1-2 New International Version (NIV)

And God spoke all these words:

“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

upload_2019-11-2_10-18-3.jpeg



So God's people then were the ancient Israelites
These ancient Israelites were slaves in Egypt
Are there Israelites in our time?
We hear of Israelis but they are not Israelites
We hear of Jews but they are not Israelites
There are no Israelites in our time.
Therefore the 10 commandments were already superseded
by the new covenant of God

Secondly do people today know how to observe the proper sabbath?
Are you an Israelite, to begin with?

Exodus 31:16 New International Version (NIV)
The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant.

images


Israelites shouldn't bake or boil water during Sabbath day Exodus 16:23
Israelites shouldn't go out during Sabbath day Exodus 16:29
Israelites shouldn't work during Sabbath day Exodus 20:10
Israelites violating the Sabbath day should be expelled or put to death Exodus 31:14
Israelites violating the Sabbath day should be put to death reiterated Exodus 31:15
Israelites violating the Sabbath day should be put to death reiterated Exodus 35:2
Israelites can't light a fire during Sabbath day Exodus 35:3
Israelites can't work during Sabbath day Leviticus 23:3

giphy.gif


If you are not an ISRAELITE because God gave that to the Israelites not to all people of the world
If you can't really observe the Sabbath because you can't put one to death for not observing the Sabbath
It does not apply to you or to me or to anybody [unless you are a genuine pure Israelite]
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Hi all,

The challenge I am putting up here in this OP is for anyone to show even one scripture that says God's 4th Commandment of the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11) which was spoken and written by God himself to his people, has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday (or the first day of the week) as a Holy day.

Can anyone please show me where in all the bible does is say (SOLA SCRIPTURA; Scripture only please)...

1. That God's 4th commandments 7th day Sabbath has been abolished?

2. That Jesus is a Sabbath?

3. The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

4. Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

5. Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

6. That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

7. That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

8. Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

9. That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

10. From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

11. Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

12. That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

13. That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

14. Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

15. Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

16. Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

17. That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

18. That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

19. That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

20. That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

21. Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

22. Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

23. Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

24. Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

25. Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

26. Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

27. Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?

...................

Something to think about here because we are all accountable to God come judgment day where we will all be judged by the Word of God (John 12:47-48).

God's Word makes it very clear that if we follow the teachings of men over the Word of God we are not following God...

MATTHEW 15:3-9 [3],
[3], But he answered and said unto them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
[5], But you say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift devoted to God, whatsoever you might have received from me;
[6], And honors not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God void by your tradition.
[7], You hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
[8], These people draw near unto me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

If we are KNOWINGLY breaking ANY of God's commandments we are not worshipping God.

Look forward to your thoughts...
I believe that the scriptures indicate that the nation of Israel is set apart by God for His special purpose through history. The Sabbath was and is a unique sign between God and the nation of Israel throughout their generations... (Exodus 31:17). Israel is not the church and the church is not Israel. Born again believers in the church have their rest in Christ every day and live under a higher law, the law of Christ, for which the 4th commandment concerning the Sabbath was only a foreshadow.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
"Are Christians under obligation to keep a weekly sabbath day? Ex. 31:16, 17: Rom. 10:4: Col. 2:13-16: This is why Christians are not under obligation to keep a weekly Sabbath......

Hi Deeje thanks for sharing but nope none of those scriptures you provide here answer any of the questions in the OP neither do they say "Christians are not oblogated to keep Gods 4th commandment" which is one of God's 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken under the new covenant *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4. According to God's Word in the New Covenant if we breaking any one of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:1-11 and all those who continue in known unrepentant sin do not enter the kingdom of heaven because they reject the gift of God's dear son *Romans 6:23 and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing *Hebrews 10:26-39.

This is why the scriptures you have provided do not support your claim...

1
. Ex. 31:16, 17 ?

God's 4th commandment Sabbath *Exodus 20:8-11 is indeed a sign to "ISRAEL" that they are God's people and it is God who is sancifying (saving) them. What you have ignored from the very scripture you quote here from your source is v16, Why the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant (unending convenant). Let's examine this in a little more detail through the scriptures and show why your sources interpretation is in error.

1a. Under both the old and new covenant, God's "ISRAEL" is only a name given by God to his people *Genesis 32:28. Gods ISRAEL in the new covenant are all those who believe and follow Gods' Word. ISREAL and JEWS and Gentiles believers in the new covenant are all a part of Gods ISRAEL and this is who the NEW covenant applies to. HEBREWS 8:10-12 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, said the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people" and again "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God *ROMANS 2:28-29. Gentiles believers are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL *Romans 11:13-27. So as you can see here Gods' ISRAEL today are all those who believe and follow God's Word and God's 4th commandment Sabbath is still a "perpetual convenant as shown in Exodus 31:16-17.

2a. According to JESUS he as creator and Lord of the Sabbath *Mark 2:28; John 1:1-4; 14 made the Sabbath for all mankind *Mark 2:27. The Sabbath was made for all mankind according to God's Word on the "Seventh day" of the creation week after God created all things in six days and rested on the seventh day where he "blessed the seventh day" and set it apart from all the other days of the week as a "Holy day" of rest for all mankind *Genesis 2:1-3. Where your sources argument's falls down is that it claims that the Sabbath is only for God's ISRAEL. While this is true as shown above it is misleading as all those who believe and follow Gods' Word are God's ISRAEL today because this is who the new covenant is applied to. If we are not a part of God's ISRAEL we have no part in the New Covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12. 2b. Pay close attention here because this makes it very clear. When God made the Sabbath for mankind *Mark 2:27 there was no Israel, no Jew, no sin and mankind was in perfect harmony with God and no plan of salvation was needed and the Sabbath was created as a part of the finished work of creation *Genesis 2:1-3

2. Rom. 10:4 ?

Does not say that there is no more law otherwise in is contradicting JESUS and the rest of the bible. JESUS says "think not that I have come to destroy the law...Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven *Matthew 5:17-19 Then Paul says; "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, we establish the law" *Romans 3:31 and again from Paul "that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit *Romans 8:1-4. There are many more scripture that can be shared here that contradict your sources claims but we will stop here.

Now as you can see your sources interpretation is in contradiction to both what Jesus says and what Paul says elsewhere as shown above.

What Paul is saying in Romans 10:4 is the same as what he says in GALATIANS 3:22-25 and that is, the Law (10 Commandments) is our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ that we might be forgiven by faith. The LAW leads us to Christ. It shows us that we are all sinners *Romans 3:10 in need of a Saviour to save us from sin *Matthew 9:12-13 and reveals the Saviour to us as the Saviour from sin. Romans 10:4 is talking about those who are trying to establish their own rightouesness through the law which is the context provided in *Romans 10:1-3 your source leaves out. We cannot establish our own rightesousness because we are not rightouess to begin with and we are already sinners condemned by the law *Romans 6:23. Rightoeusness only comes as we believe and follow God's Word (Christ) to which the law points all sinners to (the end of the law). *GALATIANS 3:22-25

3. Col. 2:13-16 ?

I will not discuss this one here in the detail it deserves here but I have just started a new thread on this subject if your interested in discussing it with me which will be discussed in details looking at all the context, subject matter linking the old and new testament scripture to prove that Colossians 2 is not talking about God's 10 commandments at all. here click me. In short, COLOSSIANS 2:11-14 links to the OLD and NEW TESATMANT scriptures, the “CONTEXT”, “SUBJECT MATTER” and TOPIC OF CONVERSATION” of COL 2:11-14 is talking about the CEREMONIAL SHADOW LAWS IN ORDINANCES v14 (dogma used) written in the “SHADOW LAWS” from the MOSIAC BOOK of the old Covenant which are SHADOW laws pointing to Jesus and God’s plan of SALVATION in the NEW COVENANT. The “CONTEXT” and “SUBJECT MATTER” of COLOSSIANS 2:16 is not referring to ABOLISHING any one of God’s 10 Commandments. Neither can God's 4th commandment be a shadow law as it was a part of a finished work and a memorial of creation.

Thanks for sharing but has been shown through the scriptures above, nothing you have provided here answers any of the questions asked in the OP.
 
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3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
I find the Constitution of the Mosaic Law ended with Jesus - Romans 10:4 Plus, Jewish Sabbath was Saturday. Sunday was chosen by Constantine to give farmers a rest day. Corrupted 'Christendom' thus chose Sunday as a rest day.

Hi URAVIP2ME nice to meet you. The Mosaic book of the law written by Moses as dorected by God i*Deuteronomy 31:24-26 is not the same as God's Law (10 commandments) which is the work of God alone written by God on two tables of stone *Exodus 32:16. According to God's Word, Gods LAW in the new covenant gives us the knowledge of Good and Evil; Sin and Rightouesness *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and if we knowingly break any one of them *James 4:17 we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11.

This was posted somewhere else but will repost this section here. Romans 10:4 does not say that there is no more law otherwise in is contradicting JESUS and the rest of the bible. JESUS says "think not that I have come to destroy the law...Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven *Matthew 5:17-19 Then Paul says; "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, we establish the law" *Romans 3:31 and again from Paul "that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit *Romans 8:1-4. There are many more scripture that can be shared here that contradict your sources claims but we will stop here.

Now as you can see your sources interpretation is in contradiction to both what Jesus says and what Paul says elsewhere as shown above so .

What Paul is saying in Romans 10:4 is the same as what he says in GALATIANS 3:22-25 and that is, the Law (10 Commandments) is our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ that we might be forgiven by faith. The LAW leads us to Christ. It shows us that we are all sinners *Romans 3:10 in need of a Saviour to save us from sin *Matthew 9:12-13 and reveals the Saviour to us as the Saviour from sin. Romans 10:4 is talking about those who are trying to establish their own rightouesness through the law which is the context provided in *Romans 10:1-3 your source leaves out. We cannot establish our own rightesousness because we are not rightouess to begin with and we are already sinners condemned by the law *Romans 6:23. Rightoeusness only comes as we believe and follow God's Word (Christ) to which the law points all sinners to (the end of the law). *GALATIANS 3:22-25
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
I think it's just that Jesus fulfilled the law of Moses, so we take our Sabbath by honoring Him since He is the law.

Good point Rob as Jesus did fulfill all of God's LAWS both the Mosaic shadow laws from the book of the law as well as God's 10 Commandments written on stone. If he didn't he could not be our perfect sacrifice. Jesus fulfilling God's law however does not mean we are now free to break it however. In fact JESUS came to magnify the LAW from the INSIDE OUT quoting MATTHEW 5:17-32 (thoughts and feelings) in fulfillment of *ISAIAH 42:21. This is to show that unless our RIGHTOUESNESS EXCEEDS the RIGHTOUESNESS of the Scribes and Pharisees we can in no way enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN. Jesus is saying the problem runs deeper then outward observance to the 10 Commandments. EVIL begins in the HEART. BREAKING GOD's 10 COMMANDMENTS from the heart defile a man *MATTHEW 15:18-19. JESUS is saying we can be outwardly perfect and blameless like the Scribes and Pharisee but inwardly like dead mans bones *MATTHEW 23:27-28. JESUS magnified the LAW to the INSIDE OUT. To show us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour and that sin originates in the HEART (thoughts and feelings). That is why we have the NEW COVENANT promise and need to be BORN AGAIN by Faith in God's WORD for salvation to be free from SIN (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) *HEBREWS 8:10-12; 1 JOHN 3:3-10.

If we are not BORN AGAIN into the NEW COVENANT promise and continue in it we will not enter the kingdom of Heaven *1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 2:3-4. ALL those who KNOWINGLY break any one of God's 10 commandments stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. All those who KNOWINGLY CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into God's KINGDOM *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 Commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what sin is. There is no such thing as the 9 commandments in God's WORD. The same as there is no scripure that says God's 4th commandment is Abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

RIGHTESOUSNESS comes from LOVE because LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW and the very expression of what LOVE is *ROMANS 13:8-10. He that does not LOVE does not KNOW GOD for GOD IS LOVE * 1 JOHN 4:8. All those who are BORN AGAIN have a NEW HEART TO LOVE and FOLLOW GOD *1 JOHN 4:7. This is the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Those who are BORN AGAIN do not practice SIN (breaking God's Commandments) *1 JOHN 3:4-9. This is why JOHN finishes on this subject by saying; For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous *1 JOHN 5:3 and is why JESUS says IF you LOVE me KEEP my commandments *JOHN 14:15. UNLESS we are BORN AGAIN under the NEW COVENANT to LOVE we will not enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *JOHN 3:3-7. We need to be changed from the INSIDE OUT.

God bless
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Jesus is speaking to some Jews in this story, but its important to step out of the one liners and look his overall rejection of discipleship methods. They're talking to him about the chain of teaching. He's simply adding to his dislike of their concept of discipleship, and that seems to be why he is pointing out something where they have made errors. Its their methods that he is going after not the specific choices which concern him. The way I see it: Jesus is talking to some sect of Pharisees, and he's telling them that they have discipleship upside-down. To make his point is baptized by someone of lesser status than himself -- John the Baptist. In other words he turns the discipleship pyramid on its head. He is opposing Pharisee basic time-honored methods wherein a master takes on a student and teaches that student everything that they themselves have learned -- carefully and intensively. They do things the way that you and I would intuitively expect, but Jesus rejects this.

Jesus tells his disciples plainly that he won't be teaching them everything that they need to know. Jesus selects the worst men to be his disciples and men who don't get along with each other. He is criticized for sitting with tax collectors and people who don't keep kosher. His parables indicate you can never tell who is wheat and who is weed. He hides his identity and won't attract the best people to himself. He receives children as the greatest in the kingdom, but its clear in the Torah that they are not as valuable as adults, don't have wisdom like adults, have foolishness in their hearts. All of this is obvious, but he rejects it.

Some great points there Brick. For me there is many similarities to what you post here for Christianity today. This is why the OP is being discussed I guess and it's application to Matthew 15:3-9. The application here is that even today we are being taught things in the Church's that are not biblical and we should be questioning what we are being taught and seeking God's guidence through a prayerful study of His Word.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Before anything else let us start with Exodus 20:1-2
It will tell us to whom God gave these ten commandments
which includes the Sabbath

Exodus 20:1-2 New International Version (NIV)
And God spoke all these words:

“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

So God's people then were the ancient Israelites
These ancient Israelites were slaves in Egypt
Are there Israelites in our time?
We hear of Israelis but they are not Israelites
We hear of Jews but they are not Israelites
There are no Israelites in our time.
Therefore the 10 commandments were already superseded
by the new covenant of God

Secondly do people today know how to observe the proper sabbath?
Are you an Israelite, to begin with?

Exodus 31:16 New International Version (NIV)
The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant.

images


Israelites shouldn't bake or boil water during Sabbath day Exodus 16:23
Israelites shouldn't go out during Sabbath day Exodus 16:29
Israelites shouldn't work during Sabbath day Exodus 20:10
Israelites violating the Sabbath day should be expelled or put to death Exodus 31:14
Israelites violating the Sabbath day should be put to death reiterated Exodus 31:15
Israelites violating the Sabbath day should be put to death reiterated Exodus 35:2
Israelites can't light a fire during Sabbath day Exodus 35:3
Israelites can't work during Sabbath day Leviticus 23:3

If you are not an ISRAELITE because God gave that to the Israelites not to all people of the world
If you can't really observe the Sabbath because you can't put one to death for not observing the Sabbath
It does not apply to you or to me or to anybody [unless you are a genuine pure Israelite]

Hi MJFlores nice to meet you and welcome and thanks for sharing your thought :).

None of what you have posted here however answers any of the questions asked in the OP however. Also none of the scriptures you have provided say that God's 4th commandment is now abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. This has already been addressed elsewhere so I will add it here for your consideration...

Your argument here is that God's 4th commandment Sabbath is only for Israel. It is not really a well thought through argument if you do not mind me saying as there are 10 commandments of which God's 4th Commandment is only one of them and it is like trying to argue that everyone of God's 10 commandments are now abolished. Yet it is God's Word in the new covenant that says God's LAW (10 commandments) gives us the knowledge of Good and Evil; Sin and Rightesousness *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. Jesus did not come to abolishe them *Matthew 5:17-19 and Paul says according to the new covenant which is to God's Israel that God's Law is to be fulfilled in is through faith that works by love *Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 8:1-4; Romans 13:8-10; Romans 3:31. So your interpretation of the scriptures here brother has you contradicting both JESUS and Paul in the new testament.

God's 4th commandment Sabbath *Exodus 20:8-11 is indeed a sign to "ISRAEL" that they are God's people and it is God who is sancifying (saving) them. What you have ignored from the very scripture you quote here from your source is v16, Why the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant (unending convenant). Let's examine this in a little more detail through the scriptures and show why your sources interpretation is in error.

Let's look at your argument that God's law is only to Isreal in the Old covenant a little further..

1a.
Under both the old and new covenant, God's "ISRAEL" is only a name given by God to his people *Genesis 32:28. Gods ISRAEL in the new covenant are all those who believe and follow Gods' Word. ISREAL and JEWS and Gentiles believers in the new covenant are all a part of Gods ISRAEL and this is who the NEW covenant applies to. HEBREWS 8:10-12 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, said the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people" and again "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God *ROMANS 2:28-29. Gentiles believers are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL *Romans 11:13-27. So as you can see here Gods' ISRAEL today are all those who believe and follow God's Word and God's 4th commandment Sabbath is still a "perpetual convenant as shown in Exodus 31:16-17.

2a. According to JESUS he as creator and Lord of the Sabbath *Mark 2:28; John 1:1-4; 14 made the Sabbath for all mankind *Mark 2:27. The Sabbath was made for all mankind according to God's Word on the "Seventh day" of the creation week after God created all things in six days and rested on the seventh day where he "blessed the seventh day" and set it apart from all the other days of the week as a "Holy day" of rest for all mankind *Genesis 2:1-3. Where your sources argument's falls down is that it claims that the Sabbath is only for God's ISRAEL. While this is true as shown above it is misleading as all those who believe and follow Gods' Word are God's ISRAEL today because this is who the new covenant is applied to. If we are not a part of God's ISRAEL we have no part in the New Covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12. 2b. Pay close attention here because this makes it very clear. When God made the Sabbath for mankind *Mark 2:27 there was no Israel, no Jew, no sin and mankind was in perfect harmony with God and no plan of salvation was needed and the Sabbath was created as a part of the finished work of creation *Genesis 2:1-3

So nope nothing you have provided in your post says that God's 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

Thanks for sharing though.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
I believe that the scriptures indicate that the nation of Israel is set apart by God for His special purpose through history. The Sabbath was and is a unique sign between God and the nation of Israel throughout their generations... (Exodus 31:17). Israel is not the church and the church is not Israel. Born again believers in the church have their rest in Christ every day and live under a higher law, the law of Christ, for which the 4th commandment concerning the Sabbath was only a foreshadow.

Hi InChrsit, nice to meet you here. :)

All of God's laws are for his people. God's ISRAEL in the new covenant are all those who believe and follow God's Word. If we are not a part of God's Israel we have no part in the new covenant promise which is to God's Israel *Hebrews 8:10-12. Gentiles are now grafted in *Romans 11:13-17. Please see previous post for a more detailed reply as what you are sharing here has already been responded to in the post above this one in post # 34 linked. Thanks for sharing but no nothing you have provided here answers any of the questions asked in the OP.

God bless
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Hi all,

The challenge I am putting up here in this OP is for anyone to show even one scripture that says God's 4th Commandment of the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11) which was spoken and written by God himself to his people, has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday (or the first day of the week) as a Holy day.

Can anyone please show me where in all the bible does is say (SOLA SCRIPTURA; Scripture only please)...

1. That God's 4th commandments 7th day Sabbath has been abolished?

2. That Jesus is a Sabbath?

3. The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

4. Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

5. Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

6. That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

7. That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

8. Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

9. That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

10. From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

11. Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

12. That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

13. That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

14. Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

15. Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

16. Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

17. That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

18. That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

19. That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

20. That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

21. Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

22. Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

23. Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

24. Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

25. Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

26. Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

27. Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?

...................

Something to think about here because we are all accountable to God come judgment day where we will all be judged by the Word of God (John 12:47-48).

God's Word makes it very clear that if we follow the teachings of men over the Word of God we are not following God...

MATTHEW 15:3-9 [3],
[3], But he answered and said unto them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
[5], But you say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift devoted to God, whatsoever you might have received from me;
[6], And honors not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God void by your tradition.
[7], You hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
[8], These people draw near unto me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

If we are KNOWINGLY breaking ANY of God's commandments we are not worshipping God.

Look forward to your thoughts...

Well, it seems like the easiest way around it is to simply declare Monday to be the "first day of the week." That would make Sunday the seventh day. Problem solved.

A lot of people think of Monday as the first day anyway, since it's the first work day of the week. Saturday and Sunday kind of blend together as the "weekend," so people generally take both days off. And Friday often feels like it's the "end" of the week, even though it technically isn't.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
None of what you have posted here however answers any of the questions asked in the OP however. Also none of the scriptures you have provided say that God's 4th commandment is now abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. This has already been addressed elsewhere so I will add it here for your consideration...

Hosea 2:11 Contemporary English Version (CEV)
I’ll stop Israel’s celebrations
no more New Moon Festivals,
Sabbaths, or other feasts.

Who was talking?
It was God who was talking
What's up?
He said he will stop all Israel's celebrations
Including what?
The Sabbath

When did it happen?
When Jesus introduced the new covenant
And you quoted that yourself in

Colossians 2:16-17 Living Bible (TLB)
So don’t let anyone criticize you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating Jewish holidays and feasts or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. For these were only temporary rules that ended when Christ came. They were only shadows of the real thing—of Christ himself.

giphy.gif
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Hi all,

The challenge I am putting up here in this OP is for anyone to show even one scripture that says God's 4th Commandment of the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11) which was spoken and written by God himself to his people, has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday (or the first day of the week) as a Holy day.

Can anyone please show me where in all the bible does is say (SOLA SCRIPTURA; Scripture only please)...
.

Some use Sola Scripture for one point, and break it for the next thousand.

In Christianity the Sabbath came to mean the Sunday, the first day of the week. However there is no commandment
to this effect in the NT. A reference to the "Sabbath's rest" in Hebrews 4:9-10 doesn't refer to a day but the spiritual
condition of resting from one's works.

But the "first day of the week" was symbolic to Christians because it was the day that Jesus rose from the grave.
"Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which
they had prepared, and certain others with them. And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre
." Beginning
with this Sunday, Jesus guided His disciples to gather every Sunday. Jesus appeared to the disciples on the following
Sunday. It was on another Sunday (seven weeks after the resurrection) that the Holy Spirit appeared to the church on
the day of Pentecost
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Well, it seems like the easiest way around it is to simply declare Monday to be the "first day of the week." That would make Sunday the seventh day. Problem solved.

A lot of people think of Monday as the first day anyway, since it's the first work day of the week. Saturday and Sunday kind of blend together as the "weekend," so people generally take both days off. And Friday often feels like it's the "end" of the week, even though it technically isn't.

Hi Steve, nice to meet you too and thanks for sharing here. I think some people have tried to do this as in the European calander. Although all it is really doing is trying to change God's time to mans time. The AntiChrist is said to try to do this very thing in Daniel 7:25. God's time is not man and in my view God's laws cannot be changed by man as God has given them to us to give us a knowledge of what sin is when we break them *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4

God bless
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Hosea 2:11 Contemporary English Version (CEV)
I’ll stop Israel’s celebrations—
no more New Moon Festivals,
Sabbaths, or other feasts.

Who was talking?
It was God who was talking
What's up?
He said he will stop all Israel's celebrations
Including what?
The Sabbath

When did it happen?
When Jesus introduced the new covenant
And you quoted that yourself in

Colossians 2:16-17 Living Bible (TLB)
So don’t let anyone criticize you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating Jewish holidays and feasts or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. For these were only temporary rules that ended when Christ came. They were only shadows of the real thing—of Christ himself.

Nope none of these say Gods' 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day now do they?

I will not discuss this on here in the detail it deserves here but I have just started a new thread on this subject if your interested in discussing it with me which will be discussed in details looking at all the context, subject matter linking the old and new testament scripture to prove that Colossians 2 is not talking about God's 10 commandments at all. here click me.

In short, COLOSSIANS 2:11-14 links to the OLD and NEW TESATMANT scriptures, the “CONTEXT”, “SUBJECT MATTER” and TOPIC OF CONVERSATION” of COL 2:11-14 is talking about the CEREMONIAL SHADOW LAWS IN ORDINANCES v14 (dogma used) written in the “SHADOW LAWS” from the MOSIAC BOOK of the old Covenant which are SHADOW laws pointing to Jesus and God’s plan of SALVATION in the NEW COVENANT. The “CONTEXT” and “SUBJECT MATTER” of COLOSSIANS 2:16 is not referring to ABOLISHING any one of God’s 10 Commandments. Neither can God's 4th commandment be a shadow law as it was a part of a finished work and a memorial of creation.

Thanks for sharing but has been shown through the scriptures above, nothing you have provided here answers any of the questions asked in the OP.
 
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