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Islam: What Muslims teach children in Dutch schools

Choose the option(s) you agree with:

  • 1: No worries, it will blow over (This is Islamophobia)

  • 2: I do worry, "Muslims who teach killing is okay" won't just blow over

  • 3: Koran contains violent verses

  • 4: Violent verses in Koran are dangerous in the West

  • 5: Responsibility of highest Imam to do something now

  • 6: Act now or Islamophobia becomes reality

  • 7: I do not believe this happened; it's a hoax

  • 8: I believe Allah does want Muslims to teach this

  • 9: I believe Allah does NOT want Muslims to teach this

  • 10: I believe Muslims should be free to teach this


Results are only viewable after voting.

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
Find me a list of the number of people who have been lynched bombed or burned over the past 200 years in the name of white supremacy and maybe we COULD do a comparison. Hmm... seems like just those slaughtered by Nazi's during WWII in the name of white supremacy puts the number FAR greater than the victims of Islamic attacks.

Hmm, so now you are whatabouting by introducing the actions of a nation when here I thought we were talking about radical Islamist terror organizations.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
Hmm, so now you are whatabouting by introducing the actions of a nation when here I thought we were talking about radical Islamist terror organizations.

Wanna do a body count comparison?

Hmm... you're the one who wanted to do a comparison between atrocities committed by Islamic extremists and white supremacists. Try and keep up.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Hello Adrian, I got the feeling, that you are working in a multi cultural and religion environment. Have you ever sensed this? It is not easy to sense though. I mean for many years they did this before the Dutch CIA discovered it (took ca. 1 year to get all the proof, using hidden cameras).

This year I went to a mosque to feel for myself, and check out how much truth was in "Islam is Religion of Peace". On the surface they were nice, but I did sense quite a few things that felt wrong, but was not totally sure. Until a friend of mine started saying all kinds of weird things. He started discriminating women (keep them on a short leash or they have sex with all men they see) and discriminating Christians, belittling Jesus, disgusted about Christmas. I did not understand where that came from, till I saw the video in the OP. Exactly the same brainwash he has gone through, I can see now.

So from personal experience I would say, be very careful. Looking back, I can say that Islam in Holland (50 out of 52 schools were infected) is as dangerous (or more) than those brainwashing sects (mostly Christian) that now and then hit the news all over. Luckily those sect usually have less than 50-100 members. Here we talk about 10% of all Dutch population getting infected with this fundamentalist Muslim virus and when they refuse to cooperate they and their family are threatened (serious threats). This is confirmed as shown in the OP by an Imam, telling us that because of threats all Muslims just did what the Islam from the Middle East ordered them to teach to their children.

Although I am currently chairman of my cities interfaith council and the Muslim community here hasn't caused any problems I have heard some disturbing reports such as the local Imam having close associations with Wahhabism.

A Baha'i friend of mine from Egypt who lived locally generally kept his Baha'i affiliation low key. One day some Muslims came knocking encouraging to join a Jihadist movement.

Although I have a friendly association with Muslims, I don't feel particularly close to any Muslims. I have a sense that many Muslims generally like to keep within their own communities.

Unfortunately, these types of problems become fuel for the fire of the ultra right groups. I think we need to work hard to assist Muslims in our community to become fully integrated into our communities while being vigilant against extremism.

This isn't an easy problem that's going away in a hurry. In fact its likely to get worse....
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Don`t judge a nation with the very meager worst people in it.
I agree with this
Why some are blaming Islam for actions committed by 0.000001% extremists under delusions.
Actually it’s closer to 31% on a global scale. But if you have some scientific paper backing your assertion of “0.000001%” then please do share it.
Extremists are found in all cults and religions.
Agreed
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I think we need to work hard to assist Muslims in our community to become fully integrated into our communities while being vigilant against extremism.

This isn't an easy problem that's going away in a hurry. In fact its likely to get worse....
That is exactly what Dutch government was hoping.

Alas, now they discovered that these Islamists were teaching exactly the opposite to the Muslim schools.

Lucky Dutch AIVD (CIA) found out. Took a while to get proof, but I have seen and heard audio recordings of these "Muslim" teachers promoting hate towards everything non-Muslim (dutch 20min: to download and maybe google translate or have a dutch Bahai listen). Below link is 20min. I wrote out a few things with exact timings. Remember, they are teaching this to 6+ year old kids who should be prepared to make a positive contribution to society.

In de Koranschool leren kinderen dat Nederland niet hun land is

To children from 6+ years teaching them:
00:30=Other believers deserve death
00:45=No God but Allah (in Holland)
07:45=Polytheist worst=live barbeque hell
09:30=kill by Sword if belief in witchcraft
10:20=Christmas worst sin, better congratulate someone who killed another. Would you celebrate kill day of your mother
11:45=Don't love Atheist, you don't love murderers, do you? Duty of Muslims to feel disgust for Atheist (also if family), but you should not kill them
14:30=Woman must obey man, need permission leave house. Sex must unless sick or period
15:00=5 of 10 Muslim organisation tell Muslim kids to be ready to leave Holland; not your country. Duty for every Muslim to leave Holland and go live in Muslim country
16:20=Danger if brainwashed thus, that IS easy gets to them to fight in Middle East

So, what is the use to allow Muslims in Holland if this is what Muslim schools 96% teach them (hate non Muslims and sabotage our culture? I love Putin, he saw this straight away and dealt perfectly with it)

If they think like this then I rather have them out the sooner the better. Not my idea, it's what these Muslims created themselves !!!

Good lesson for Christians to think twice before claiming "Jesus is only way, others go to Hell" you just created this karma that now comes back. These Muslims do similar what Christians did for ages.
 
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stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Remember, they are teaching this to 6+ year old kids who should be prepared to make a positive contribution to society.

Good lesson for Christians to think twice before claiming "Jesus is only way, others go to Hell" you just created this karma that now comes back. These Muslims do similar what Christians did for ages.

I am curious what Muslims in Middle East countries do, if they find out that Christians teach in their School that belief in Muhammad is the worst of sins. And celebrate and go to Mekka is very big sin too. Exactly this, but then about Jesus the Muslims do in the West.

Maybe a Muslim can tell us that
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
That is utopia. You really think religious extremism is the greatest threat to society? I'd say beer is greater.
Although I wouldn’t phrase it that way you have a point. Alcohol is linked to a significant proportion of motor vehicle accidents, fatal accidents, criminal behaviour including homicide and domestic violence, mental health as well as a multitude of physical health problems.
 

Wasp

Active Member
I am curious what Muslims in Middle East countries do, if they find out that Christians teach in their School that belief in Muhammad is the worst of sins. And celebrate and go to Mekka is very big sin too.
Isn't that a sin? I have heard it from many Christians. Unless you mean specifically the worst of sins. Christianity isn't concentrated on condemning Islam even if some Christians are.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Isn't that a sin? I have heard it from many Christians. Unless you mean specifically the worst of sins. Christianity isn't concentrated on condemning Islam even if some Christians are.

Wow Wasp, thank you so much. Now all is clear to me. You stick to your religion, and I stay away from it, as far as possible.
Your quote "Islam is for all mankind the right and the only religion" tells me more than enough.

Do not bother to reply to my posts again. If you do, this will be my reply. Wish you well.

The Yoga Vasistha is the Scripture I find my jewels. I am reminded of a beautiful text from the Yoga Vasistha:
O Rama*, he who comes forward to remove the sorrow of people of perverted intelligence is endeavouring to cover the sky with a small umbrella. They who behave like beasts cannot be instructed, for they are being led like animals by the rope of their own mind. Indeed, even stones shed tears, looking at those ignorant people who sink in the mire of their own mind, whose actions spell their own doom. Hence, the wise man does not attempt to teach those who have not overcome their own mind and are therefore miserable in every way. On the other hand, the wise do endeavour to remove the sorrow of those who have conquered their mind and who are therefore ripe to undertake self-enquiry.

The mind is not, O Rama*: do not unnecessarily imagine its existence. If you imagine its existence then it destroys you, like a ghost. As long as you have forgotten your self, so long does this imaginary mind exist. Now that you have realised that the mind waxes large by the continued affirmation of its existence, abandon such thinking.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
That is exactly what Dutch government was hoping.

Alas, now they discovered that these Islamists were teaching exactly the opposite to the Muslim schools.

Lucky Dutch AIVD (CIA) found out. Took a while to get proof, but I have seen and heard audio recordings of these "Muslim" teachers promoting hate towards everything non-Muslim (dutch 20min: to download and maybe google translate or have a dutch Bahai listen). Below link is 20min. I wrote out a few things with exact timings. Remember, they are teaching this to 6+ year old kids who should be prepared to make a positive contribution to society.

In de Koranschool leren kinderen dat Nederland niet hun land is

To children from 6+ years teaching them:
00:30=Other believers deserve death
00:45=No God but Allah (in Holland)
07:45=Polytheist worst=live barbeque hell
09:30=kill by Sword if belief in witchcraft
10:20=Christmas worst sin, better congratulate someone who killed another. Would you celebrate kill day of your mother
11:45=Don't love Atheist, you don't love murderers, do you? Duty of Muslims to feel disgust for Atheist (also if family), but you should not kill them
14:30=Woman must obey man, need permission leave house. Sex must unless sick or period
15:00=5 of 10 Muslim organisation tell Muslim kids to be ready to leave Holland; not your country. Duty for every Muslim to leave Holland and go live in Muslim country
16:20=Danger if brainwashed thus, that IS easy gets to them to fight in Middle East

So, what is the use to allow Muslims in Holland if this is what Muslim schools 96% teach them (hate non Muslims and sabotage our culture? I love Putin, he saw this straight away and dealt perfectly with it)

If they think like this then I rather have them out the sooner the better. Not my idea, it's what these Muslims created themselves !!!

Good lesson for Christians to think twice before claiming "Jesus is only way, others go to Hell" you just created this karma that now comes back. These Muslims do similar what Christians did for ages.

Russia may not be everyone’s ideal of nationhood.

Let’s consider some facts.

The population of your country was about 17.1 million January 2017 and the percentage of Muslims 4.9%

Islam is a relatively new religion in the Netherlands, as per most recent (CBS) statistics 4.9% of the Dutch population were Muslims in 2015.

The majority of Muslims in the Netherlands belong to Sunni denomination, with a sizeable Shia minority. Muslim numbers began to rise after the 1970s as the result of immigration
.

Religion in the Netherlands - Wikipedia

So you have about 838,000 Muslims in Holland.

In regards Islamic terrorism in Holland:

List of terrorist incidents in the Netherlands - Wikipedia

Are there other Islamic terrorist attacks? I think overall the numbers of people that have been killed from Islamic terrorist attacks in Holland to date is very low. If you were to compare that to alcohol related deaths, suicides, homicides or motor vehicle accidents the number is tiny.

That isn’t to say there shouldn’t be a response to Islamic extremism being taught in schools. There should.

The other useful statistics would be to calculate the percentage of Muslims being taught in Muslim schools.

Just a few thoughts to gauge the scale of the problem.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Dutch still get it wrong on Muslims, immigration numbers - DutchNews.nl

This article claims that Dutch got their numbers still wrong
And that people from New Zealand are known tot have the numbers right:D
It seems to me this article is quite right:D, you got the numbers quite well


Russia may not be everyone’s ideal of nationhood.
That is true. Though I met 2 Russians traveling Europe and coming to stay with us; they were very enthusiastic about Putin. I was surprised, here in Holland it was mostly not very positive about Putin. But they said that Putin took good care of jobs and education and all get some government money when no job (but not sure how Russia is when it comes to numbers either; and I have not checked these numbers). Comparing Putin and Trump, Putin seems more stable to me, and better control over what he speaks out in public.

Let’s consider some facts.

The population of your country was about 17.1 million January 2017 and the percentage of Muslims 4.9%

Islam is a relatively new religion in the Netherlands, as per most recent (CBS) statistics 4.9% of the Dutch population were Muslims in 2015.

The majority of Muslims in the Netherlands belong to Sunni denomination, with a sizeable Shia minority. Muslim numbers began to rise after the 1970s as the result of immigration
.

Religion in the Netherlands - Wikipedia

So you have about 838,000 Muslims in Holland.
Seems quite right to me

In regards Islamic terrorism in Holland:
After WW2 we have been blessed I think.
Before WW2 started the world (including Holland) did not take Adolph Hitler and his fundamentalism serious enough
My grandfather fought in WW2 and he always warned us ... beware of extremism, they are very dangerous
So IMO it's very wise of Holland to take this issue in Muslims schools very serious. Better safe than sorry, like in WW2

List of terrorist incidents in the Netherlands - Wikipedia

Are there other Islamic terrorist attacks? I think overall the numbers of people that have been killed from Islamic terrorist attacks in Holland to date is very low. If you were to compare that to alcohol related deaths, suicides, homicides or motor vehicle accidents the number is tiny.
I am very glad I do not live in USA with many people owning a gun, and so much violence
Our AIVD (Dutch CIA) must have like holiday here, so little terrorism.

That isn’t to say there shouldn’t be a response to Islamic extremism being taught in schools. There should.
Good the AIVD took this Muslim teaching problem very serious. Terrorism can spread fast when schools are abused.

The other useful statistics would be to calculate the percentage of Muslims being taught in Muslim schools.

Just a few thoughts to gauge the scale of the problem.
They said 50 out of the 52 schools were teaching this. With thousands of students. From 800.000 muslims that might not seem much. But that is how Hitler started also. If you teach one, he can become a teacher etc.

But the "good" thing maybe is, that they teach to the teen Muslims, that Holland is not their country, and they should all go to Muslim countries. So any problems would then leave Holland. But to me it seems a waste of energy. If they really feel so bad about our culture, it's much better to act like Putin did "If you do not like our culture, then we are very happy to escort you out to any Muslim culture country of your choice.

Seems to me also not healthy to teach such hate things to young children.

Even on RF I read yesterday the below line written by someone who does not reveal his religion. Seeing his replies he seems a Muslim or Muslim apologist.

Islam is for all mankind the right and the only religion

Luckily another Muslim said something like: Islam does not impose religion on others. Religion is free.

I think fanatism (my way is the highway for all) is the cause of much of the violence in the world.
Hitler did it, Christians and Muslims do it. Humans need to stop this if they want Peace in the world
Obvious to me, but still not to many others
 
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danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Do you have a reference for the 31% figure Daniel?
Sure, in the YouTube clip in post 1 at <a href="Attacking Ideas: My Chaning Views of Isalm">Attacking Ideas: My Chaning Views of Isalm</a> the author of the YouTube clip averages the statistics for Muslims who believe in death for apostates across 37 Muslim countries.

I believe the study he quotes is here Muslim Beliefs About Sharia

If you think the author got the average wrong I’m happy for you to show me the math and come up with a more correct figure, but garantee it won’t be anywhere near 0.0000001%
 
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Baroodi

Active Member
I agree with this

Actually it’s closer to 31% on a global scale. But if you have some scientific paper backing your assertion of “0.000001%” then please do share it.


Actually it’s closer to 31% on a global scale
please link your source for this 31% first
 

Baroodi

Active Member
I agree with that. I do not trust news sources. I only trust my own personal experiences.

I went to a mosque nearby. And a friend of mine too. He converted to Islam. And now he tells exactly the same lines that were shown in the news. Dutch CIA made a recording what these Islamists were teaching the children. And exactly those things I have been hearing from my friend also the past few month. So, I am pretty sure that this time it is exactly what the news says it is

I see a difference in "critique of Religion" and "critique of Actions" (any Actions, done in name of Religion or not)

Many people don't see this difference clear. I see the difference very clearly

In this thread I only talk about the bad Actions of these Islamists teaching Muslim children to hate Holland and Dutch people instead of "Love other religions"

I assure you you this is not true at all regarding Sunni Islam. If Such mosques exists, local authorities can take actions. For example Fanatic ISIS targets Muslims as well as non-Muslims.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I assure you you this is not true at all regarding Sunni Islam. If Such mosques exists, local authorities can take actions
I believe you. They should take actions.

But it's politics also, I read in news today. Ties with Middle East, don't want to make them too angry (Dutch don't want another oil crisis; no oil is problem, people got used to their comfortable life)

We depend on oil from Middle East and agreed in 1975 Strassbourg Resolution to allow spreading Islam in exchange for getting oil. Politics is not always clean and fair.

For example Fanatic ISIS targets Muslims as well as non-Muslims.
I believe you. I think that maybe 90% or more will be Muslims suffering from ISIS; but that's just guessing.
 
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