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Why Bahai

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
I've never heard of any such thing. Do you have a citation or link?

Link? Citation?
Here are some writings of the Bab:-

The Babi Shariah directs that all who did not accept this Shariah should be put to death,
(Ref: Makatib, Volume 2, page 266)

The Bab has directed that all books other than those written by him should be destroyed.
(Ref: Al-Munazirat, page 167, Bayan, Arabic Chapter 1)
O my followers! Surely Allah has made fighting obligatory for you. You must conquer the cities and the people for Babism and don't be at peace with those who reject Babism".
(Ref: Bayan, Arabic Chapter 1)

It is the duty of every Babi king that he should not allow any non-Babi to live n his realm. This is also binding upon the other Babis as well. The only non-Babi who could be allowed to live in the country was one who carried on some trade of benefit for other people.
(Ref: Bayan, Bab 4, Wahid 8)

The Bab began the fifth Wahid of the fifth Bab Al-Bayan as follows: "Those who do not accept the Bab and his religion, all their belongings should be snatched away from them, if that is possible: but if they accept him their property can be returned to them."
The Babi Sharia ordains that where a man was in possession of a hundred misqals of gold, he should hand over 19 misqals to the Bab and 18 disciples called the Haruful Hayi. In case these had died, the gold was to be given to their heirs. It has also been ordained that of everything the best portion was for the Bab; the middle one for disciples specially near and dear to him; and only the lowest quality was for the use of the common people.
(Ref: Bayan, Bab 16, Wahid 8)

The principle has been laid down that all Babis were pure people, while all those who failed to accept the Bab were impure and dirty, and the same principle applied to all their belongings and things connected with them. The Bab has further explained this point by saying that even if the non-Babis bathed in the sea a thousand times every day, they could not become clean and pure in body.
(Ref: Bayan, Bab 2, Wahid 6)

The Bab has directed that no follower should read any book other than Al-Bayan.
(Ref: Bayan, Wahid 4, Bab 10)

"If a Babi acquires a thing from a non-Babi, then by the transfer of the thing, it becomes lawful for him".
(Ref: Bayan, Arabic Chapter 4)

It is ordained in the Babi Shariah that any one who hurts the feelings of the Bab, or his successors after him, was to be killed; and for bringing about his death every possible means could be adopted.
(Ref: Al-Bayan, Bab 15, Wahid 6)
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
I've never heard of any such thing. Do you have a citation or link?

This is a better reference than those in my other post, although those are real quotations, of course.

You need to copy then paste the web link in to google..... just clicking on it won't help.

Bábism - Wikipedia
Some of the new laws included changing the direction of the Qibla to the Báb's house in Shiraz, Iran and changing the calendar to a solar calendar of nineteen months and nineteen days (which became the basis of the Bahá'í calendar) and prescribing the last month as a month of fasting.[20]
The Báb also created a large number of rituals and rites which remained largely unpracticed.[21] Some of these rituals include the carrying of arms only in times of necessity, the obligatory sitting on chairs, the advocating of the cleanliness displayed by Christians, the non-cruel treatment of animals, the prohibition of beating children severely, the recommendation of the printing of books, even scripture and the prohibition on the study of logic or dead languages.[21] While some statements in the Bayan show tolerance, there are other very harsh regulations in regards to relations with non-believers. For example, non-believers are forbidden to live in five central Iranian provinces, the holy places of previous religions are to be demolished, all non-Bábí books should be destroyed, believers are not to marry or sit in the company of non-believers, and the property of non-believers can be taken from them.[21] Some further ritual include elaborate regulations regarding pilgrimage, fasting, the manufacture of rings, the use of perfume, and the washing and disposal of the dead.[21]
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
What do you mean by that? What Baha'u'llah wrote is what He wrote. How can it be the complete reverse? o_O
You could show some paragraphs written by Bahauallah, possibly?

How do you know that? Do have any reliable sources that are verifiable that can disprove the history as written by Baha'is, some of whom were actually on site?

The Dawn-Breakers
God Passes By
I happened to be thinking of Bahai claims about Iranian mass killings of Bahais and such, but plwease, do quote some important paragraphs from Bahai witnesses out of those books.

How can he find the truth when so many people lie?
Indeed! And so careful and deep investigation is required, reviewing all reports and claims from many backgrounds.
That includes the ex Bahai scholars who have been excluded from Bahai because of their findings.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
We? I personally don't believe in evil, as you already know. You, sure. I'll ask again. (No high hopes though) Can you please stop speaking as if you represent humanity? Please use 'I' instead of 'we'. It's just common courtesy here. I don't speak for you, as if you think the same way I do. (Cause you don't)

I have replied to this before.

You are perfectly free to see it that way, but I see the world as we and as like a family, it is a diversity. I see We are in this life together and as a whole, we need to be like a family and as such we would want to look after each other. Thus we can then do good as a whole, or we can do not so good as a whole. Or, then we could also choose to individualise those choices, in our participation with the whole. I see this is the way you choose to see it, that your good is an individual choice and not a necessary part of the whole family of man.

Regards Tony
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Do you mean the writings of the Bab rather than Babi? The Babis are the followers of the Bab. Most Babis eventually became Baha’is or followers of Bahá’u’lláh. Those that didn’t are often anti-Baha’i too.

If you did mean the writings of the Bab please feel free to provide quotes from the authentic Writings of the Bab here:

Selections from the Writings of the Báb | Bahá’í Reference Library

Those quotes shown were from the writings of the Bab.
The books were shown with directions to pages, etc.

Now you direct me to SELECTIONS from the writings of the Bab. Does this suggest that any unhelpful writings have been excluded?

Allow me to search where I may for writings.
Are you saying that the Bab did not write those passages referred to? Like these citations:- ??

O my followers! Surely Allah has made fighting obligatory for you. You must conquer the cities and the people for Babism and don't be at peace with those who reject Babism".
(Ref: Bayan, Arabic Chapter 1)

It is the duty of every Babi king that he should not allow any non-Babi to live n his realm. This is also binding upon the other Babis as well. The only non-Babi who could be allowed to live in the country was one who carried on some trade of benefit for other people.
(Ref: Bayan, Bab 4, Wahid 8)

The Babi Sharia ordains that where a man was in possession of a hundred misqals of gold, he should hand over 19 misqals to the Bab and 18 disciples called the Haruful Hayi. In case these had died, the gold was to be given to their heirs. It has also been ordained that of everything the best portion was for the Bab; the middle one for disciples specially near and dear to him; and only the lowest quality was for the use of the common people.
(Ref: Bayan, Bab 16, Wahid 8)

The Bab has directed that no follower should read any book other than Al-Bayan.
(Ref: Bayan, Wahid 4, Bab 10)

"If a Babi acquires a thing from a non-Babi, then by the transfer of the thing, it becomes lawful for him".
(Ref: Bayan, Arabic Chapter 4)

It is ordained in the Babi Shariah that any one who hurts the feelings of the Bab, or his successors after him, was to be killed; and for bringing about his death every possible means could be adopted.
(Ref: Al-Bayan, Bab 15, Wahid 6)
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I will explain that passage to you if you want me to. :)
We (many members of the forum and myself) understand Bahais very well. You do not need to take the trouble to explain the Bahai view to us.
In the meantime, perhaps you would like to go back to what Bahaullah said:
https://www.quora.com/Where-in-the-writings-of-Bahaullah-does-he-claim-to-be-a-prophet
I see We are in this life together and as a whole, we need to be like a family and as such we would want to look after each other. Thus we can then do good as a whole, or we can do not so good as a whole. Or, then we could also choose to individualise those choices, in our participation with the whole. I see this is the way you choose to see it, that your good is an individual choice and not a necessary part of the whole family of man.
It is good that you see it that way. But is a God or prophet/son/messenger/manifestation/mahdi is necessary to see it that way? I see it that way without the help/order of any such. Actually belief in God and in the intermediaries is the only cause of strife in the world. Remove them and all problems are solved.
 
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oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
I have replied to this before.

You are perfectly free to see it that way, but I see the world as we and as like a family, it is a diversity. I see We are in this life together and as a whole, we need to be like a family and as such we would want to look after each other. Thus we can then do good as a whole, or we can do not so good as a whole. Or, then we could also choose to individualise those choices, in our participation with the whole. I see this is the way you choose to see it, that your good is an individual choice and not a necessary part of the whole family of man.

Regards Tony

The above was written to another member.

Bahai may pretend to view the people of the World as one family, and Bahai may pretend to wish to participate with the whole World.

But if we reverse this we discover that Bahai does not view any non-Bahais as close family and will not invite them to participate in a Bahai World Order. They may remain in it, but they may not vote for delegates to sit upon Local, National or the World Houses of Justice.

And.... who knows? At any moment the Bahai World Court could unanimously decide that it is time to invoke some of the Bab's Laws? They are a part of the Bahai Faith, after all.

Look.... it's OK...... just as with some other religions, all the time that Bahai has a small following it is not a problem. The problem could only become serious if Bahai population reaches very very high figures.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Those quotes shown were from the writings of the Bab.
The books were shown with directions to pages, etc.

Now you direct me to SELECTIONS from the writings of the Bab. Does this suggest that any unhelpful writings have been excluded?

Allow me to search where I may for writings.
Are you saying that the Bab did not write those passages referred to? Like these citations:- ??

O my followers! Surely Allah has made fighting obligatory for you. You must conquer the cities and the people for Babism and don't be at peace with those who reject Babism".
(Ref: Bayan, Arabic Chapter 1)

It is the duty of every Babi king that he should not allow any non-Babi to live n his realm. This is also binding upon the other Babis as well. The only non-Babi who could be allowed to live in the country was one who carried on some trade of benefit for other people.
(Ref: Bayan, Bab 4, Wahid 8)

The Babi Sharia ordains that where a man was in possession of a hundred misqals of gold, he should hand over 19 misqals to the Bab and 18 disciples called the Haruful Hayi. In case these had died, the gold was to be given to their heirs. It has also been ordained that of everything the best portion was for the Bab; the middle one for disciples specially near and dear to him; and only the lowest quality was for the use of the common people.
(Ref: Bayan, Bab 16, Wahid 8)

The Bab has directed that no follower should read any book other than Al-Bayan.
(Ref: Bayan, Wahid 4, Bab 10)

"If a Babi acquires a thing from a non-Babi, then by the transfer of the thing, it becomes lawful for him".
(Ref: Bayan, Arabic Chapter 4)

It is ordained in the Babi Shariah that any one who hurts the feelings of the Bab, or his successors after him, was to be killed; and for bringing about his death every possible means could be adopted.
(Ref: Al-Bayan, Bab 15, Wahid 6)

Been here before OB :)

It appears you prefer your take on this subject.

One has to remember that the laws of the Bayan were transitional and subject to the approval of the 'One whom God would make Manifest'.

Thus the Bab'i were still operating under Muslim law and defence of Faith.

They did not pursue but in defense and the stories of the sieges are all available.

But one of course can take the enemies side as gospel, those that broke their oaths given on the Quran over the Bab'i that gave their lives in respect of the Quran.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
We (many members of the forum and myself) understand Bahais very well. You do not need to take the trouble to explain the Bahai view to us.
In the meantime, perhaps you would like to go back to what Bahaullah said:
https://www.quora.com/Where-in-the-writings-of-Bahaullah-does-he-claim-to-be-a-prophet
It is good that you see it that way. But is a God or prophet/son/messenger/manifestation/mahdi is necessary to see it that way? I see it that way without the help/order of any such. Actually belief in God and in the intermediaries is the only cause of strife in the world. Remove them and all problems are solved.

I see they give me life. I am dead without them. Necessary for me, very much so.

Another way to avoid conflict is to recognise we are one human race, a family that needs to work together.

I still see you as a friend who loves participation in all things Baha'i :)

Regards Tony
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Link? Citation?
Here are some writings of the Bab:-
The Bab has directed that all books other than those written by him should be destroyed.
Bahaullah and his successors did exactly that. That is a normal thing in Abrahamic religions. Bible and Quran also did the same. That is the reason Bahais have a House of Justice. Bahais are not supposed to write something which goes against their view under the threat of expulsion from the community.

It is not like that in Hinduism. We are completely free to hold our views and publish them. I am a strong atheist Hindu, I do not believe in existence of God/Gods, soul, heaven, hell, creation, birth, death and reincarnation. That does invite opposition from other Hindus but does not affect my association with Hinduism.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Look.... it's OK...... just as with some other religions, all the time that Bahai has a small following it is not a problem. The problem could only become serious if Bahai population reaches very very high figures

Who will have a problem then if that does happen? A very large number working for all humanity, inclusive of rights for the minority, compared to what... A few that want their own way?

Regards Tony
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I see they give me life. I am dead without them. Necessary for me, very much so.
Another way to avoid conflict is to recognise we are one human race, a family that needs to work together.
I still see you as a friend who loves participation in all things Baha'i :)
You were given your life by your father and mother. No one dies by disbelieving in Gods and all the falsehood associated with it. Yes, we are one race, but we are more than that. We are part of what all exists in the universe, humans, animals, vegettion, air, water, sand and all the inanimate things also. That is the concept of Brahman. No differentiation, no duality. That is 'Advaita Hinduism'. You are not just a friend to me. You are me. I am constituted by the same thing that constitutes you. That is true oneness.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
And.... who knows? At any moment the Bahai World Court could unanimously decide that it is time to invoke some of the Bab's Laws? They are a part of the Bahai Faith, after all.

This link discusses the unique system started by Baha'u'llah.

A Unique System of Justice

If you read it, please advise how the world would not be a better place by implementing this system.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You were given your life by your father and mother. No one dies by disbelieving in Gods and all the falsehood associated with it. Yes, we are one race, but we are more than that. We are part of what all exists in the universe, humans, animals, vegettion, air, water, sand and all the inanimate things also. That is the concept of Brahman. No differentiation, no duality. That is 'Advaita Hinduism'. You are not just a friend to me. You are me. I am constituted by the same thing that constitutes you. That is true oneness.

I see I was born, but yet to live. I see we are born from one Matrix into another.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You are me. I am constituted by the same thing that constitutes you. That is true oneness.

I see we are formed in the same way, part of the same system, but the atoms that give you form are not the atoms that give me form. This body dies and the atoms disperse to form again as?

In this process I see we are given Soul/Spirit at conception, one could say an individual atom of mind/soul. I see this life is development of that atom, to join that atom with the whole.

The Bible calls it being born again.

Regards Tony
 
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