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Why Bahai

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Sanatana Dharma can not be destroyed. It has always existed and always will exist IMHO. It man be manifested, hidden or misrepresented, can it not?

Yes, of course, but that's all in the maya, outer realms of the intellect, not the inner soul nature. It's nature is intrinsic, hidden within the DNA structure of man. So it there is destruction, it's temporal. We have no messiahs of the past or future.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Your statements apparently do not reflect the desire of protecting all beliefs including the Baha'i Faith. Since most religions believe in some way or another they co-opt previous religions. What gives in term of who you are selectively protecting?

Frankly, you are admitting right here that you have no idea of what Dharma is.

That is by itself reason enough to refuse the Bahai take on the Dharmics.
I do not expect you to apologize, but this response too short to be adequate as a response to my posts,
Indeed.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Yes, of course, but that's all in the maya, outer realms of the intellect, not the inner soul nature. It's nature is intrinsic, hidden within the DNA structure of man. So it there is destruction, it's temporal. We have no messiahs of the past or future.

Messiah is a term that belongs in a Judeo-Christian narrative, not in Hinduism or Buddhism. Its an important concept when talking to the Jews and Christians but makes as much sense to most Hindus as Sanatana Dharma makes to most Christians. Vaishnava Hindus have incarnation(s) of Vishnu and avatars but that's not part of Shaivism. A better starting point is charity and compassion that is more clearly universal.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
The Baha'i faith certainly does make definitive statements about the nature of the Buddha (Manifestation of God) that many Buddhists such as yourself would not agree with. However there really isn't too much the Baha'i writings themselves have to say about either Buddhism and/or Hinduism and most of it is left to scholars and students of religion to work out.
I appreciate the honesty.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
He is not a rasool? But I read that one of the central ideas is that the Quran quoting Muhammed as the Kathamul Nabi or the last Nabi leaves room for a rasool and Bahaullah is a rasool.
Bahais do not deny that but place Bahaullah in a special category, just short of being Allah himself, higher than any 'rasool', also higher than any 'messiah' ('Mahdi' in Islam) of being a apparition (closer to Hindu 'avatara') of Allah - Manifestation. That is Allah manifested. Huge unparalleled ego.
https://www.quora.com/Where-in-the-writings-of-Bahaullah-does-he-claim-to-be-a-prophet
It doesn't help that we have a zillion different denominations (slightly exaggerated number) that teach different (sometimes very different) theologies.
Well, it is a free world. People are entitled to have their own view. What do you know about truth? The truth is that all this talk about prophets/sons/messengers/manifestations/mahdis is people's imagination and spurious claims without any evidence. It does not belong to 21st Century.
 
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TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
But that was my point. Nor does it mean you see them as 'true' religions. What it means is that nothing was said. That's all we can conclude. In a sense all religions besides Baha'i are false, certainly not up to date like Baha'i claims to be. The teachings that the former religions were good AT THAT TIME in history is rather evident. In Moomen's paper on Hinduism he said the main purpose for Baha'i with regard to Hinduism was to update it to it's natural conclusion, whatever the heck that means.

It means that we can follow the guidance that all good is from God and all evil from our own selves.

Christ also gave that clear guidance.

I am sure we would find it recorded in many ways in all God inspired Faith.

Regards Tony
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Bahais do not deny that but place Bahaullah in a special category, just short of being Allah himself, higher than any 'rasool', also higher than any 'messiah' ('Mahdi' in Islam) of being a apparition (closer to Hindu 'avatara') of Allah - Manifestation. That is Allah manifested. Huge unparalleled ego.

I enjoy it when you speak for the Baha'i Faith but I need to correct you again.

The Manifestation of God is NOT just short of God Himself. A better analogy would be that of the Sun (God) compared to the mirror (Manifestation of God). A mirror is very different from the sun, don't you think?

More specifically the Bab is the Mahdi and Baha'u'llah the Return of Christ in Islam.

Although Baha'u'llah is viewed as the Kalki or tenth Avatar of Vishnu, Manifestation of Vishnu is a less ambiguous term than incarnation of Vishnu. In contrast to Wikipedia I'm comfortable with either phrase providing we qualify what is meant by incarnation.

The Bahá'í concept of the intermediary between God and humanity is expressed in the term Manifestation of God.[1] Bahá'ís believe in a single, imperishable God, the creator of all things, including all the creatures and forces in the universe.[4] Though inaccessible directly, God is nevertheless seen as conscious of his creation, with a mind, will and purpose. Bahá'ís believe that God expresses this will at all times and in many ways, including through a series of divine messengers referred to as Manifestations of God. In expressing God's intent, these Manifestations are seen to establish religion in the world.

The Manifestations of God are not seen as
incarnations of God as God cannot be divided and does not descend to the condition of his creatures, but they are also not seen as ordinary mortals. Instead, the Bahá'í concept of a Manifestation of God emphasizes the simultaneously existing qualities of humanity and divinity. In the station of divinity, they show forth the will, knowledge and attributes of God; in the station of humanity, they show the physical qualities of common man.[1] A common Bahá'í analogy used to explain the relationship between the Manifestation of God and God is that of a perfect mirror. In the analogy, God is likened to the Sun – the source of physical life on earth. The spirit and attributes of God are likened to the rays of the Sun, and the Manifestations of God are likened to perfect mirrors reflecting the rays of the Sun.[2] Thus, the Manifestations of God act as pure mirrors that reflect the attributes of God onto this material world.

Manifestation of God - Wikipedia
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
They say they support all religions, then mention only 9 as legitimate. The rest of us don't count, I guess. I've been through all this before, but for Hinduism, like other faiths, it's a mangled poorly done job of understanding.

What is written about Hinduism came later, and the main person (Moomen, I could have the spelling wrong) was way off.

As a rule of thumb, I just reverse everything, because I have never read a straight or clear passage from the Bahai translations.

There have been so many millions of belief 'systems'. I wonder what Bahai would have thought about the Incas, or the Mayans?
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
And nowhere in all that did I see any writings of Bahauallah about supporting, or embracing Hindu.
They are ready to embrace Hinduism provided if Hindus consider Bahaullah as Kalki avatara. They are happy to embrace Jesus or Mohammad if Christians and Muslims are ready to accept Bahaullah as a manifestation of Allah and one with the latest revelation. It is all take take and no give.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Baha'u'llah taught specifically that every culture in the history, and of course did not name them all, actually the history of what is called Hinduism is diverse and ancient and very well may have had more than one Revelation from God. in the history of Hinduism. Even the words Hindu and Hinduism are general descriptive terms that do not in reality the diverse nature of this religion,
There you go! OB's rule...... reverse everything Bahai.
You wrote 'Baha'u'llah taught specifically...' and then show that he specified nothing.

Nonetheless Abdu'l baha and Shoghi Effendi Had intimate knowledge of the Revelation and Baha'u'llah, and is consider scripture of the Baha'i Faith.
I know, just like Paul is the scripture of Christianity?
:facepalm:

To Israel He was neither more nor less than the incarnation of the "Everlasting Father", the "Lord of Hosts" come down "with ten thousands of saints"; to Christendom Christ returned "in the glory of the Father"; to Shí'ah Islam the return of the Imam Husayn; to Sunni Islam the descent of the "Spirit of God" (Jesus Christ); to the Zoroastrians the promised Shah-Bahram; to the Hindus the reincarnation of Krishna; to the Buddhists the fifth Buddha.
(Shoghi Effendi, God Passes By, p. 94).
What a joke.
This is a typical example of his great grandson reversing stuff in to Bahai that Bahauallah didn't write.
Bahauallah is really Muhammud Jesus Krishna Zororaster, eh?
This is like back in the late 60's when Bahai would be anything you liked, just join up. But it wasn't and it isn't, it's a would-be World Ruler based upon a Theocracy.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
For starters: Hinduism and the Bahá'í Faith

You can even read on to Chapter 1 if you want.

This is a typical example of Bahai, in as much as not much (if anything!!!!) is shown that is written clearly by the Bab or Bahauallah.

You claim to have an Abrahamic base, but then decide that because a massive % of the World's people are Hindu, Buddhist and countless other religions, then Bahai needs to be keyed in to these for the purpose of selling Bahai.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
It means that we can follow the guidance that all good is from God and all evil from our own selves.

We? I personally don't believe in evil, as you already know. You, sure. I'll ask again. (No high hopes though) Can you please stop speaking as if you represent humanity? Please use 'I' instead of 'we'. It's just common courtesy here. I don't speak for you, as if you think the same way I do. (Cause you don't)
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
They are ready to embrace Hinduism provided if Hindus consider Bahaullah as Kalki avatara. They are happy to embrace Jesus or Mohammad if Christians and Muslims are ready to accept Bahaullah as a manifestation of Allah and one with the latest revelation. It is all take take and no give.
It's just an amazing distortion....
Bahais do not believe in those religions as their followers do.
The Bab wanted to turn Muslims out of their homes, and out of five cities earmarked just for Bahais. That was not embracing Islam, is not embracing Christianity and won't be embracing other religions.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Hello firedragon.....
This is what I reckon about Bahai.
Show me mostly any writing of Bahauallah's and I will show you that the truth of it all is the complete reverse, the opposite of what is written.

And most claims by Bahais about the Bahai history are very very distorted, imo.

Just investigate the truth for yourself.

How about "The Holy Book"?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
This is the problem with avatars. How in the world are we supposed to know you are a sister and give the due respect???

Very bad I say. Haha.

Thanks a lot sis. I will remember your avatar name.
You can know if someone is male or female by clicking on their avatar and looking in their profile, if they put it in their profile. :)
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Hello firedragon.....
This is what I reckon about Bahai.
Show me mostly any writing of Bahauallah's and I will show you that the truth of it all is the complete reverse, the opposite of what is written.
What do you mean by that? What Baha'u'llah wrote is what He wrote. How can it be the complete reverse? o_O
And most claims by Bahais about the Bahai history are very very distorted, imo.
How do you know that? Do have any reliable sources that are verifiable that can disprove the history as written by Baha'is, some of whom were actually on site?

The Dawn-Breakers
God Passes By
Just investigate the truth for yourself.
How can he find the truth when so many people lie?
 
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